Knife maker and sheath maker thought experiment

Buying a name or keeping up with the Jones has cost many a small fortune. I have never got into that game. I will spend what I think a product is worth no me, No more. I don't Bash Bear and I would have to be tied down to watch him, I would inspect his knife and If I needed it, I would have decide what I thought it's worth was. I don't think I ever need go much past 100 bucks to get a very good knife. Not when I can buy a Mora 2000 for 35.00. Lots of good custom knives right here on this site in the 100 dollar range.
 
Talfuchre, seem to me your biggest issue is Bears Name is on it and not some one you repect in the field, sadly the real deal in many thing fail to get the public respect they are due.

THis is nothing new. say how much does a Handmade Tom Brown Tracker go for ?


cya
jimi
 
Big Mike said:
An interesting discussion.

The value on any knife is a hard thing to pin down.

Obviously, what a buyer will pay is the final determinate.

For me, I look for value in a knife; I want a knife to perform well and hold its value.

Many knives have similar designs and are made from similar material, but it’s the things you can’t see that add value to a knife in my eyes.

The quality of the heat treatment, and customer service, are paramount to me.

These are the things you can only learn from prolonged use of a knife.

I have learned through my experience that the way to be happy with a purchase is to buy a knife from a maker with a track record of exceptional blades and customer service.

If this means paying a premium, so be it; I know the value will be there.

Does this mean not buying blades from unknown makers, no, but buy knowing that you will have to make you own judgment as to the ultimate value of the knife.

There are many fine custom makers here on the forum, and we can learn from each other on the quality of their products, the bottom line is that any knife is only as good as it’s maker.




"If you're not living on the edge, …you're taking up too much space."

Big Mike
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Mike, hola

I've got no issues with that. Mike Stewart makes for a good example. His designs and his approach to customer care would certainly have more appeal to me that a similar sort of knife from Random Bloke in similar materials.

Similarly, there's a vendor that sometimes posts here [principally BRKT stuff – I've seen you converse with him but I can't recall his name], that appears very well liked and respected for the way he conducts his affairs even though his shipping costs are a tad higher than elsewhere. After seeing some of his deliveries here I can understand why. Seems exactly the kind of guy I'd prefer to do business with if I were there.

Bottom line then: What is the cost of reputation. How do we price it.
eek.gif
 
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When a knife goes from being a tool to a toy / jewelry, its only natural it will cost more.

Glass is pretty mush as pretty as diamonds, but the price is not the same. the higher price for diamonds are not because its hard and can be used as a tool, it's high because they are rare and make nice jewelry.
Glass also looks good in jewelry, but its not rare nor expensive, so its not really good for jewelry for thee elite.
when does a knife become a toy/jewelry, well 1 one way is signing up for an account on bladefoums. ;)

Well a bear knife is pretty much the same as when a girl is showing of a big shinny rock in her engagement ring. it so you can say "Its really pricey, but only the best is good enough for me, because I'm worth it"
It has little to do with the physical thing it self, its the message it sends.
 
Not that I am really into the whole deep thought process thing:D...I just go after knives that I want..the price is something to consider, but not the deciding factor. This knife has a very close copy being made by Martin knives, of TX..they make a great tool, and the price is about half.
 
There are times when you just can't compare apples to apples even if they fall from the same tree...

- If I look at the Bear Grylls knife and take it for what it is, I see a machine made knife and sheath that would probably run $150-200 from an average N. American full-production facility.

- If that same knife was made by a smaller well known semi-production faciltiy, I would expect it to be $200-300 depending on materials.

- If a well respected custom maker made their rendition of this knife I wouldn't be surprized to see it anywhere from $300 to $700.


To me, its difficult to put a price on handmade items.... IMHO... ML, Koyote, Breeden, Fiddleback, Gossman, Brian A., etc.... are all selling way to cheap... I don't know how they do it. I spend alot of time on each of my blades... I have my own idea about what is important in a knife... I probably "scrap" just as many projects as I sell... because if it doesn't make me say "Wow, did I make that?" it doesn't go to the customer.

When I started selling fire kits I was so confused as to pricing. During my market research I found tha I could go to Jas. Townsend and buy a kit for $22 or go to Daniel Winkler's site and get one for $700. I realise that I could just as easily light a fight with either one. So why would I chose to pay $675 more for Daniel's? 3 years ago I WOULDN'T!! but after having met Daniel and his lovely wife Karen (who does most of his leather work) and seeing the passion they put into their work I would seriously consider it... though, my wife would disagree.... lol.

Sorry to stray from the OP's original question......

If I made my version of this knife and sheath, I would ask in the neighborhood of $275-300... but it wouldn't have Grylls' name on it, and be worthless to a fan wanting the Bear knife.
Rick
 
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Jeez rick you are married? That wows me as much as the price of the bear knife :)
 
Joezilla said:
Jeez rick you are married? That wows me as much as the price of the bear knife :)
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LOL .. Coming from Modzilla at that!

On the pricing thing .. Some people believe that because Bears name is on it, it makes it tougher, and more durable. They think that the knife is so much more useful because of that name on it. If you show this knife and a knife that Koster, Breeden, Christof, or Rick made .. which do you think a regular non knife nut would pick? They would pick the Bear knife because most normal people that watch TV know his name.

I know someone who bought a BG knife just because the name on it. I asked if he would buy it without that name on it. He told me if that name wasn't on it he wouldn't pay $100 for it. Because that name is there he paid over $500 for it.
 
KuRUpTD said:
Would love to know how many units have actually been sold.
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This is just a shot in the dark..but i bet somebody is making BANK offa this knife! Just a guess though. I really like the knife..but the name has to go..I am seriously considering the base model Martin is offering..I paid what some here would consider a crazy amount for my Martin WSK, but I love the damn thing..and it is tough as nails, and custom made. I think that this particular knife is overpriced..but only a couple hundred if that..it looks like a great design, but never handling one, I am just going on my personal knife experience.
Honestly, if this knife had nothing to do with Bear, and it was offered by someone that we repected as a maker ( I am not commenting on the current maker, I just dont know him) and the price was $250.. then I bet many of us would be scrambling to own one...JMO
 
J.Wade said:
Talfuchre, seem to me your biggest issue is Bears Name is on it and not some one you repect in the field, sadly the real deal in many thing fail to get the public respect they are due.

THis is nothing new. say how much does a Handmade Tom Brown Tracker go for ?


cya
jimi
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Jim,

I never said he was not the real deal. Although this video and a few others show he is clearly deceiving his audience.

The problem I have is that his name is not worth 200 dollars a knife. I would love to see him turn out some really special kit for 530 dollars - but my point has been made by the many makers that have chimed in on what they could make this knife for.

Les did all of his stuff with a knife you could get off the shelf. Bear mugs for the camera, fakes some shots, and uses his knife every show as an advertisement for him to make between 100 - 200 dollars a knife in pure profit.

I would rest my life on him were it dependent - I just won't buy his knife.

I wondered if I was right on how much it would sell were his name off it.

TF
 
Talfuchre said:
Jim,

I never said he was not the real deal. Although this video and a few others show he is clearly deceiving his audience.

The problem I have is that his name is not worth 200 dollars a knife. I would love to see him turn out some really special kit for 530 dollars - but my point has been made by the many makers that have chimed in on what they could make this knife for.

Les did all of his stuff with a knife you could get off the shelf. Bear mugs for the camera, fakes some shots, and uses his knife every show as an advertisement for him to make between 100 - 200 dollars a knife in pure profit.

I would rest my life on him were it dependent - I just won't buy his knife.

I wondered if I was right on how much it would sell were his name off it.

TF
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apparently his name is worth 200 bucks,

and when you start a thread with bear bashin in the title of your post and the clear message that his name isn't worth the ink it is printed in you are trying to discredit him. Seriously I think you just wanted a Bear Grylls is a fake thread more than a knife thread.

I am not saying I think he is a good example of what survial skill are but he has proble introduced more people to learning survial skills than all the above mention combined and that is a good thing for all of us more people intrested means more outlets for us to gain from.

as far as what could some maker make that for , it is not about the knife, it is about marketing. They are simply cashing in on a market like any sensable businessman would do, this happens all over the place , musical instruments, running shoes, clothing , books so what makes the knife bussiness any different, nothing ... Companies cash in on names all the time, heck TOPS has a whole line of "NAME" knives those names just aren't on the discovery channel four days a week to charge that much extra for .

and to finish they are not selling them with out his name on them so WHO CARES.... if you buy your gear because of who's name is on any you are willing to pay what they ask.


cya
jimi
 
Jim,

You seem to have taken this personally. I am sorry.

I know people do cash in on this. I just don't think they should. People might pay 200 dollars but it is not worth 200 dollars.

My only purpose in this thread is to see what this knife costs reasonably by people I trust. That is all. No hidden motives, no hidden agenda. I really don't want to make this a tetatet with a person I don't know. I guess you should PM me if you care to have this conversation further.

Having a little fun at Bear's expense has been done more than a few times on this board. You will have to admit drinking his own urine out of a snake skin and eating Bear shit - is a bit odd. ;)

gunknifenut said:
I think that this particular knife is overpriced..but only a couple hundred if that..it looks like a great design, but never handling one, I am just going on my personal knife experience.
Honestly, if this knife had nothing to do with Bear, and it was offered by someone that we repected as a maker ( I am not commenting on the current maker, I just dont know him) and the price was $250.. then I bet many of us would be scrambling to own one...JMO"
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I think this is right brother. My point was only that the extra 200 dollars doesn't seem worth it. I think you said it better than me.


TF
 
People might pay 200 dollars but it is not worth 200 dollars.
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Huh?
If they pay the $200, it is worth it to them.

Whether it is worth it to you is another story.
 
I don't think this is right - but again we are digressing.

If had all of the water - and I forced you to pay one thousand dollars a gallon - it wouldn't be ethical.

Illegality drives the price of drugs through the roof. Hitmen makes thousands - I think that price has to be set with more in mind than what people are willing to pay.

This is an example of where a name adds price - but does not add value - in my opinion.

TF
 
I wouldn't make one but I would charge about $200 with that type of sheath. It would have to be in a steel that I work with too. Probably O1. That knife is too expensive IMO
 
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