Knife Makers Moving to China??

[338375]

Everything is wrong with this post.

Schrade and Camillus were dinosaurs who became extinct because the could not offer products at good value. I can personally say neither company, in the years before their demise, offered anything I wanted to buy. It seems I was not an isolated experience.

I think the statement that "Neither company could not offer products at good value" is very incorrect.... Both companies made quality products at reasonable prices.. Something they had done for years.
In Schrades case it was very well known that bringing in outsiders to run the company was what caused them to collapse.. Had nothing to do with product or value.
Camillus used the excuse of a labor strike.. Well maybe that did have some effect on it, but my guess is that they were having financial difficulties that started way before the strike.

We have to remember that things have changed dramatically....
The younger generation wants big knives that fold, lock, chop trees,
and will get them out of dangerous situations that 99.9% of them will never be in.. JMO

 

[bh49]

Buying Chinese supports not only a Communist Gov't but an economy where worker health and safety ,the environment and the health of buyers [lead coated toys] is ignored.

I absolutely agree with this and in addition I consider that the government of People's Republic of China is not our friend and possible threat to our country.

So I am buying made in China things only if I can not find in reasonable time same made in US (or not China).
Thanks, Vassili.

I want to add, that I am buying made in China, only if I need it bad and cannot find it made somewhere else. And in the case of knives, I am not planning to buy China made in the near future even if I like everything else about the knife.
Also, I would like to make it clear that I have a lot of respect to Chinese people, their history and culture.

 

[StretchNM]

Everything is wrong with this post.

Buying American, for the sake of buying American only encourages the failing business models that did Schrade and Camillus in. It's like advocating welfare for people who are capable but unwilling to work. Supported (subsidized) American factories are discouraged from improving while foreign companies are given more incentive to improve. Guess who wins in the end?

Schrade and Camillus were dinosaurs who became extinct because the could not offer products at good value. I can personally say neither company, in the years before their demise, offered anything I wanted to buy. It seems I was not an isolated experience.

China is not our friend. Nor is China our enemy. China is a trading partner. Warm fuzzy feelings about that country, or lack therof, are irrelevant. Free trade is the key to prosperity and freedom. The sooner we all get that through our heads, the better.

Sorry Shecky,

Mete had it right. China is a trading partner AND a very potential enemy. If U.S. companies could pay U.S. workers what China pays theirs, there'd be no need for U.S. companies to sub out to China. But they can;t quite do that now, can they?

Historical and empirical evidence, and the study of it, will prove Mete's very brief comment to be absolutely true.

Free trade is essential to our nation. Wait....free fair trade is essential.

Like others said, I'll buy China's blood products, but only if I cannot find them reasonably priced elsewhere...starting with the United STates.

 

[starboard]

I too am a big fan of Chinese culture.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ews.html?in_article_id=506153&in_page_id=1811

 

[shecky]

There is no free trade here. Chine exchange rate is set by communist government the way that dollar cost more yuans then it suppose to, based on real free trade economy.

And this policy at at China's expense. Why should I not be able to take advantage of China's below cost sale? They're free to sell whatever they want at whatever they want to charge. So is the US.

Buying Chinese supports not only a Communist Gov't but an economy where worker health and safety ,the environment and the health of buyers [lead coated toys] is ignored.

And the alternative would be... to deny American consumers of the low cost goods while simultaneously denying a rising standard of living to Chinese people.

This sort of sanctimonious nannyism would have been an unconscionably burdensome restriction on the American market 100 years ago. Why should they be imposed on the nascent Chinese market economy when it's the only thing that will ever bring meaningful change to that country?

I believe in free trade as long as the playing field is level and its not.

There's really no such thing. Someone always has an advantage. Which forces others to innovate or die.

Actually, since china has some 2 trillion in US bonds, we should be thanking them for keeping our entire economy from collapsing.

That's a whole 'nother point why China isn't our enemy. They can't afford it any more than we can.

I think the statement that "Neither company could not offer products at good value" is very incorrect.... Both companies made quality products at reasonable prices..

The market seems to have disagreed. Example? They're both extinct.

China is a trading partner AND a very potential enemy.

Everybody is a potential enemy.

Open markets are the best peacemaker. More open markets are better than less open markets.

I too am a big fan of Chinese culture.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1811

Yes. The perfect reason to hate on China. Such barbarity would never happen here.

 

[nozh2002]

And this policy at at China's expense. Why should I not be able to take advantage of China's below cost sale? They're free to sell whatever they want at whatever they want to charge. So is the US.

Not at all - please read entire post. Chines workers get their salary and may buy same amuont of food for example as Americans. This is made internally not in US so they pay by yuans and did not overpay.

China buying only thing they can not produce in China - oil and sophisticated weapons.

While US market is not protected as Japanese for example (in Japan Chinese goods cost at leas same as Japanese and way more then same things in US) all manufacturing moves from US to China.

I do not see what China really loose in this situation? I see how it may be dangerous for US.

Free market does not mean chaotic wild market, there are certain rules against one huge manufacturer destroying another bit smaller with lowering price below the cost etc. It must be certain rules which protects market from this kind of things to provide fair environment for everybody to make it really free.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[GIRLYmann]

Nobody likes to loose their "turf".
But when you consider that after workin' so hard at tryin' to gain material success in the form of runnin' a business; an individual would come to the conclusion that there isn't quite enough "time" to oversee (undertake) every single thing for the rest of his natural productive lifespan. An industrious and successful individual may in his professional lifespan, gain some time in keeping the business up 'n runnin'; but there are always newer challenges loomin' ahead. Picture a small town pa 'n ma operation, than a city neighbourhood convenience store, next a nationwide chain store... it's up to the individual how large a business he wants to run. It's certain to grow along with business vision. But to try and keep pace with rapid changes in the corporate world, plus tryin' to fight off a creepin' state of a physically aging body (and mind!), can hamper the growth of a business or its direction. Who ever are captains of industries are to be blamed for the failing domestic industries. But the big question is why are they allowing it to happen? What's the great business plan? It is natural to blame the corporations for taking the easy way out by outsourcing; but if you look at the bigger picture - freetrade simply means running a business on a global scale. And that means directing operations by somehow managing a way to divide the world into areas of expertise. Sure we all know it's all about controllin' the world's resources; be it labour, sphere of political influence and makin' money 24 hours a day. But, who is left holdin' the tab? The bright side of loosin' certain domestic heavy industry is to rid the state of nasty and expensive ecological pollution and transplant it elsewhere, like China. The Chinese have been a global manufacturer for the longest time since. And the rise of communism there in the 20th century had made it less attractive to do business there; but now, such an ideology doesn't deter human greed on both sides of the scale. What's there about the good guys and the "bad", when everyone at the top gets to create new unexplored ways to riches. So whenever you pick out a product, it really doesn't matter where it's made in. Is it just a brandname you're buyin', or should it be about the best possible product quality for the price that you're prepared to pay? What should really matter is who makes the decisions and calls the shots. I guess that means you.

 

[A. G. Russell]

I think most major US knife companies have at least a few of the knives in their line-up manufactured in China.

I think Case and Queen might be 100% US made.

I think you are right.

 

[A. G. Russell]

Buy American even if it costs a bit more . Here in NY we have lost two old names , Schrade and Camillus in the last few years in great part because of China. Remember that China is NOT our friend even though we do business with them.

Sorry, both Schrade and Camillus were distroyed by the greedy owners. I watched both self distruct while trying to have them make knives for me. The grandchildren pissed away everything Albert built.

 

[gaj999]

There is no free trade here. Chine exchange rate is set by communist government the way that dollar cost more yuans then it suppose to, based on real free trade economy. This is why Chinese goods cost in dollars much less then American goods - simple free market rule. I bet that with fair "free trade" rate for yuan made in America products will be cheaper then Chinese.

If the Chinese government wants to screw Chinese workers to give Americans a better deal, why are we complaining?

Gordon

 

[Bastid]

This thread needs to stay on topic.

If you want to talk free market politics we have a forum for that and this is not the place.

This is the only warning.

Please understand that this forum is for the discussion of knives.

 

[gaj999]

Sorry Shecky,

Mete had it right. China is a trading partner AND a very potential enemy. If U.S. companies could pay U.S. workers what China pays theirs, there'd be no need for U.S. companies to sub out to China. But they can;t quite do that now, can they?

Chinese workers work for cheap because it's a better life than subsistence farming. The same thing happened in this country a hundred years ago. If we farm out low-skill, low-paying jobs to the Chinese and keep the high-skill, high-paying jobs for ourselves, we both come out ahead. That's what free trade is all about.

There is localized pain when jobs move overseas, but if you try to ensure that no one ever loses their job, you end up with a dynamic economy like France has. Protecting low-skill, high-paying jobs is what the UAW has done for years in the automotive market. What's happening to the big three is what would happen to our whole economy if we become more protectionist.

Shecky, you are right on. I wish more voters understood this stuff, so politicians couldn't get away with the fear-mongering that they're currently using to try to scare votes their way.

Gordon


Edited to say - Sorry, I'll get off the soapbox now.

 

[Bastid]

This thread needs to stay on topic.

If you want to talk free market politics we have a forum for that and this is not the place.

This is the only warning.

Please understand that this forum is for the discussion of knives.

Like I said that was the only warning.

I hope I have made our position crystal clear.

 

[cutter17]

It looks like the poster gaj999 was making his post at the same time (10:31AM) as Bastid (10:30AM). Gaj999 may not have had an oppurtunity to read about staying ot.

 

[Thomas W]

Buying American, for the sake of buying American only encourages the failing business models that did Schrade and Camillus in. It's like advocating welfare for people who are capable but unwilling to work.

So you feel knife manufacturing here in the US is not worthwhile, and eventually we will all fall like Camillus and Schrade?

Supported (subsidized) American factories are discouraged from improving while foreign companies are given more incentive to improve. Guess who wins in the end?

I'm not sure I understand, could you expand on this a bit more (discouraged vs. incentive to improve)?

Schrade and Camillus were dinosaurs who became extinct because the could not offer products at good value.

I personally don't believe this is true with either company. This would be more the correct answer.

Sorry, both Schrade and Camillus were distroyed by the greedy owners. I watched both self distruct while trying to have them make knives for me. The grandchildren pissed away everything Albert built.

 

[nozh2002]

If the Chinese government wants to screw Chinese workers to give Americans a better deal, why are we complaining?

Gordon

Please, read entire post. They screw American workers not Chinese. Chinese workers have same for their labor as American (not in terms of dollars but in terms of goods they can buy inside China for their Yuans), but because of unfair exchange rate what China produce priced way lower in dollars.

You should understand that this price is so low, not because of China pay less to their worker or have poor work condition or work better then American or give up quality!

It is cheaper simple because of dollar to yuan exchange rate set this way by communist government. This has nothing to do with everything else. This is how it became "global manufacturing" - which is simple other word for moving jobs from US to China.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[gaj999]

This kinda bites. I was busy writing my post when Bastid posted the warning. I apologized after I saw the warning. Oh well, it was sure more interesting than another "What did you cut today?" thread.:yawn:

Gordon


You have received an infraction at BladeForums.com
Dear gaj999,

You have received an infraction at BladeForums.com.

Reason: Failure to follow Forum Specific Rules
-------
I was not kidding.

This forums is still not for political discussion.

Not sure how I could have made it more clear, yet you chose to continue.
-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

 

[Bastid]

My apologies ga999.

I will get the 1 point reversed.

Noz time to stop.

I am about to give the one I gave to ga999 to you instead.

That is enough politics here.

Want interesting politics post in the political forum.

 

[Silverdagger]

My apologies ga999.

I will get the 1 point reversed.

Noz time to stop.

I am about to give the one I gave to ga999 to you instead.

That is enough politics here.

Want interesting politics post in the political forum.

Can't you just move this thread? It can not be a thread without talking about the politics of doing business with China. Can you ? If so you need to move it. If not, just kill it. PLEEEEZ.

 

[nozh2002]

My apologies ga999.

I will get the 1 point reversed.

Noz time to stop.

I am about to give the one I gave to ga999 to you instead.

That is enough politics here.

Want interesting politics post in the political forum.

OK, Sorry, did nor read your post first time.

Thanks, Vassili.