Knife of the Week_01_20 The Stockman

Originally posted by db
So, what is the difference between the stockman and the cattle knife?
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For the most part a Cattle knife is a straight equal end pattern with rounded bolsters, mostly with a Spear master blade.

There are a few other Cattle shapes/types too, but that is the most common.

The others include:

3 spring versions - spring for each blade.

Serpentine- These look like a round bolstered Stock with a Spear blade.

Eureka- Cattle knife with a swell center in the serpentine shape.

Balloon- regular Cattle with a swell center.

Jumbo- Big heavy sleeve board Cattle.

Gun-boat/Canoe- Cattle knife with Canoe style bolsters.

Serveyor/Rail splitter- A Gun boat with a swell center.


As to the topic of C-V steel, I've heard it compared to 0 - 1, or 1095:). Western, who used quite a bit of it, said it was close to 1095.

The Stockman is probably my favorite pattern. I remember as a kid lusting after a Sears stag handled version, what I would'nt do to feel it's Staggy goodness gracing my hand:D:). Alas, it was not be, they were sold out, I got a Bear Mgc.insted(not a bad knife;-)). My collecting has always gravitated to the larger versions. There's not much in the way of everyday outdoor work that one can't handle.

A few things I'd like to see are:

1) More extra large versions(4 1/4+).

2) a liner-lock version offered.

3) More versions with a punch blade. It's actually a very handy feature. May be thhey could find a way to fit a saw blade in there also:).

4) More 4 blade versions.

5) a bail added on to one end.

Here's some trivia to amaze your friends with:>). The Stock pattern with the round bolsters was called a Vaquero style, while square versions were Texas style.
 
I bothered to find where I bought my Camillus carbon series stockman for those interested... www.discountknives.com
It's code is CM-63 and the price is $18.13 ! :eek: :)
This really is a nice working knife for not a whole lot of dinero.
Mongo
 
my Old Timer Middleman is always in my pocket. In the office it's paired with an Opinel #8 and in real life it backs up a CRKT M-16-03-Z. I probably use the sheepsfoot blade more than the others, which is what prevents me from buying a trapper (even though I like the way the trappers look just a hair more than the stockman). I keep thinking a stag handled Bulldog would make a nice EDC. Arg! The list of knives I want is growing too long.

Frank
 
I just dig my Premium Stockman Queen D2 w/Cocobolo scales. It has been a great carry piece; extremely well-made and nice-looking.

I highly recommend this piece.
 
The stockman has always been the hard use pocket knife in my family. My dad has had the same large stockman for years and the thing just won't give up. It's german made and has had several sets of handles on it. The spey blade has been used to castrate more horses than I can count and the sheepfoot blade is always used to repair riggin.

While the whittler is my favorite carry pattern,the stockman is the hard use knife of pocket knives. I aways think of the BIG pocket knives when I think of the stockman (4"or>). I'm with the group that likes 1095 or similar steel in pocket knives. I find the square vs. round bolster discussion interesting. I'll pay more attention at the next knife show. I learn something new here every day...:)


Thanks Dean
 
In reply to bob bowie, it could be said, then, that the stockman is pretty much one "johnny-come-lately" (post-1890) version of the serpentine cattle knife. The only difference seems to be the substitution of a clip master blade for a spear.

I must confess that the stockman is not my favorite pattern. I can't deny that it is useful. It is just that I can't seem to get used to its serpentine shape, no matter how hard I try. I grew up on straight jacks, so the equal-end or canoe pattern cattle knives feel much better to me. I suspect that the jumbo, balloon,or surveyor pattern cattle knives would, too. Difference in people, I guess.

I agree with you that more 4-bladed versions of the stockman (and the cattle knife) would be nice. That way, we could get a punch and not have to give up any of the other blades in the pattern. More "big guys" would be nice, too, especially a reincarnation of the 4 1/4-inch "gunboat" cattle knife. I am not sure about the liner lock, though it might be all right if it does not make the knife too bulky. The bail does not get my vote. I have never found a use for a bail and those things are just too good at nicking edges if a blade is carelessly closed on them.
 
"I've opened a Pandora's box full of Pandora's boxes". I can't remember where I heard that quote, but that's what I thought when I started to compare the two:).

Yep, I agree with the Stockman branching off from the Serpentine Cattle knife. I think it's just a bit more slicked up then the serpentine Cattle, while the Cattle is a bit stouter.

I favor the Stockman for the opposite reason you favor the Cattle knife, my hand just can't get use to a straight handle, I've gotta have some curve.

Colonial actually made a liner-locking stock, it used a old style version of lock, like the type found on a Electrician's knife.

The bail has its flaws, but I could'nt find a way to include a lanyard hole:D:).
 
I don't collect Stockman knives per se,but here are a couple of my EDC's.
Top is a Camillus with "Tortoise" celluloid scales and the other is a 6318pu Case vintage 1970,and I have been carrying it since then.Notice it has the punch blade and well worn scales.You could say it is a "pocket worn"
Randy
 
I think I had my first stockman type knife when I was 6 or 7, found it in the barn. It's long gone, I probably left it somewhere in that same barn. I can appreciate all styles of knives and I'd browse around looking at new versus old, cutting edge versus traditional. Sometimes I would come across a picture of a stockman and think, "that's a good, useful style" or come across a picture of a sowbelly and think, "damn, that's so nice looking". I hadn't had one in a while, so when Ron Sabbagh offered his mint condition Shadley sowbelly, I jumped on it. BTW, when Ron describes a knife as "mint" you can bet the farm that it is MINT. The knife is drop dead gorgeous and capable, too. Built like a tank with Paul Bos heat treated ATS 34 blades and backsprings and 416 stainless everywhere else. Of course, not a gap or wiggle anywhere, best workmanship I've ever seen. Gene makes EVERY PART himself. It has a personality, too. Smooth and "snappy". I thought it would make the perfect user if it wasn't way too nice (and expensive) to use. Heck, I can get a good stockman for $80 or less, why use up a $1200 knife? I loved the knife, but started thinking of it as a monetary "investment" and eventually sold it, to get my $$ out for other things.

I'll try to shorten this little story up for those of you who have jobs or wives you need to get to......

I missed that knife. I bought it back. Not as a monetary investment, anymore, but as a user! Yep. I've been looking for a nice small, capable folder to finish off my personal stable of using knives (2 folders and 3 fixed) that I feel will cover all my needs. The other 4 knives are moderately priced (sort of) and I was willing to spend some $$ on a primo small folder. Is it crazy to carry a $1200 Shadley sowbelly, when a $80 factory knife will do? Not any more so than a $500 Carson or JWS when a $60 Spyderco will do, or a $1400 Brend when a $100 Cold Steel will do... For me, the Shadley is more than worth it. It's the ultimate execution of a classic, proven design. Not only that, but a historical, American design. The Stockmans and especially the Sowbellys are my all-time favorites. My pattern of choice when it came time for that special once-in-a-lifetime custom folder to carry, use and call my own.



Pete
 
I love the craftsmanship of traditional folders and I especially like to visit this forum. My initial interest however is in the victorinox swiss army knife. this knife and it's variations have taken quite a bit of my time and research. the stockman is what I consider the american swiss army knife, which is probably why I started collecting them as well. I did read in Bladeforums however that the stockman is not an american design, but a british creation. does anyone out there recall this. I read it in a thread at this forum or the other. maybe someone else recalls and can contribute to this thread.
 
Pete Bransky, amen on the Shadley. I'm glad to hear you got it back. The 5 blade you had would be too much to carry, but the 3 blade is perfect.

When I grew tired of collecting single blade, tactical knives last year, the stockman was the first pattern I became interested in. It is not my favorite to carry, but I've been fortunate to come across some real winners in custom stockmans:

Shadley sow belly - Pete is right. Its perfect and hard to resist the urge to carry it in spite of its value.

Rick Browne small stockman - The thinnest blades and most elegant I've seen. The blades have a slight and unique "bounce" as they settle into their half stops and open and closed positions. Its like they have little hydraulic dampers hidden away somewhere.

Reese Bose - How do you top perfection? This one manages to do it. At 4.25 closed, its too big for me to carry, thank goodness!! It stays in the safe. The edges and corners on the frame are so crisp, they are almost sharper than some knives I've owned.

Bill Simons medium stockman - An older one, with a unique curve to the body and to the clip blade. Old dovetailed stag handles and fileworked all around the liners. The stag is older and wasn't stabilized, so when it shrank, it came loose a bit. Bill recently rebuilt it for me and added pins to keep the stag in place. I carry this one almost all the time now. Bill is a good guy and a great knifemaker
 
Sorry if I took this discussion a little off track with the custom stuff. I just think it's great that, with all the new knives out there, some makers specialize in traditional styles. Those guys aren't relying on a new style to sell their knives, they're selling fine workmanship. Gotta respect that.

Something to think about and maybe I'm wrong. I've heard it said that the old cowboys and ranchers would've wet their pants laughing at some guy carrying around a super expensive knife. Some would, but I think a lot of guys would've paid the hefty price if such knives had been available. I've spent a lot of time in one of the last true western mining towns, Elko Nevada. This town is a congregate for miners, ranchers, whorehouse patrons (legal) and gamblers. Those who frequent the brothels and casinos are, for the most part, out of towners. The folks who live in and around Elko are great, hardworking, upstanding, salt of the earth people. Most of the ranchers I've bumped into out there have never seen a custom knife or ever thought of paying out serious $$ for a knife. Well, after showing these guys a nice Chris Reeve or Busfield, Randall or whatever I had, a lot of them started asking where they could get "one of those". Anyway, there's an old cowboy now somewhere in Wyoming carring around a $1200 Busfield interframe and a number of Northeastern NV Ranch hands carrying Sebenzas, Randalls and even a Hartsfield that I know of. Knives, trucks and guns, a lot of today's cowboys will spend serious $$ on that stuff. I think some of the old guys would've too, if the items were available.

What's my point? No big point, but I was just sitting here agreeing with someone who said the old timers would've laughed their butts off at someone whittling with an expensive custom. Then I thought back and realized, that's not necessarily true.......
 
Pete, thanks for the insight. It comes down to that old discussion that divides the knife carrying population down the middle, "What's the purpose of a knife...to cut stuff." Does a $1200 custom cut any better than a $50 factory knife? How deep do you want the debate to go? Blades steel, quality of heat treating, grinds, and edge holding. Etc, etc. Hard users will usually go with the decent throwaway level tools. People who use a tool and need the best performance and durability will go higher. Not just in knives, but in any tool. And like its been pointed out by many a collector and knife user, once you've used a nice custom, it is hard to go back to a factory knife.

Some guys commute to work in Porsches and Ferraris. Does it get them there any faster or "better." Not for my money. There are people who collect quilts and old bottles. To me a quilt is just something that keeps you warm on a winter night. And bottles lost all their value to me when they stopped giving 2 cents when I returned them to the corner drug store. Even knife collectors have their standards.
 
The year before I came to work at my place of employment, the boss gave everyone an Old Timer Stockman along with the standard Christmas bonus in cash. When I started working there I asked about everyone having the same knife and became interested in getting one for myself. About the same time, I got an offer from Copenhagen Snuff for a "free" OT Stockman - paid for in snuff lids. I dipped that crap all summer. Heartburn city. :)

Turned out to be a great knife. I still have it. Broken tip (of course) and some discoloration on the carbon steel blades, but no worse for wear. Those blades can be made moocho sharp! I don't carry slipjoints anymore but if I did, that would be the one. Great knife!
 
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