Knife Prices

bld522

bld522

Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
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Is it just me, or does it seem like knife prices have been marching relentlessly upward over the past several months? I'm not just talking about a few makers, I'm talking about a LOT of makers . . . . Benchmade, Spyderco, ZT among them. Some of the increases have been straight up and no nonsense. Some have been the result of pricing policy changes. But they both amount to the same thing . . . higher prices for products whose quality is not increasing. I thought inflation was under control. Not in the knife industry, or so it would appear.

My concern is that wages aren't keeping pace with inflation and knife manufacturers may find themselves in trouble as they vie for more and more discretionary dollars from people with less and less of them to spend. I mean it's one thing to try to convince someone that it's worth spending $100-$150 for a knife. But increasingly I see knives heading into the $200-250 range and higher. And it seems to me that's a much tougher sell. I, for example, can spend $100 on a knife I like without thinking twice about it. But you get me north of $200 and my opportunity cost calculator clicks in and the brakes get applied. By expecting people to pay more for knives whose quality doesn't increase commensurately, it seems to me knife manufacturers may be burning the candle at both ends.

Thoughts?
 
I can't say I disagree. I haven't purchased any new higher end knives in quite a while. I won't purchase a new Benchmade because the price to quality ratio is no longer there. I canceled my 0562cf pre-order because I looked at my 550 and 0560 and figured a new >$200 knife probably can't do something that these two could. The only knives I have purchased in the last couple months are on the more budget side, and all used.
 
I think you are possibly right. Unfortunately some folks may end up pricing themselves out of reach of many.
 
There are still a ton of great affordable knives out there. I just think that we are a very small part of the population that is fixated on the top of the line, premium blades. If there wasnt a market for $200+ folders then I am sure that the major manufacturers would stop making so many.
 
Everything is going up in price, it's mainly because utility and gas prices went up.

Knife companies don't get free electricity when they manufacture their products.
 
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It does seem to be happening lately. It could be that, although the popularity may be increasing, the competition is not really overwhelming. Not if you compare it to other items like cars, clothes, items that most of us buy and need. It's still a very 'close knit' market and very wide open to new manufacturers. Almost still the wild west. I think we have a long way to go before this particular business becomes more subdued in terms of pricing.
Cheers
 
I suppose I've noticed the MAP bits, but I guess I haven't really paid attention to it as a trend. I do, however, often hyperfocus on the knives that I think are very good values and skim over those that I think are overpriced (unless they have some other aspect that really interests me).
 
Make lemonade.
The prices on customs have not gone up by nearly as much...
I seem to be spending much more time on those forums than the production forums now.
 
Manufacturing cost and the rise of the Chinese middle class has affected almost all products. While companies may be made in the "USA", it doesn't mean they don't use Chinese products to do so. I've witnessed the ever rising salaries of Chinese factory workers and you can directly relate the rise of manufacturing goods to that.

My first year going to China for business was 2001, workers were paid about $2-4 a day, they were treated horribly and did not have much. Now, workers make $600+ a month and have Iphones, etc. Competition amongst manufacturers to retain higher skilled labor, plus China actually implementing labor laws contributed to this. In Shenzhen alone, the government has mandated a 300% salary increase for all companies over the next 5 years. Guess who will end up paying for that?

The second and not obvious is the increase in materials, primarily steels. The earth has finite resources, as we continually use them up, they increase in value. Again, China uses so much steel that it effects everything. I used to design investment cast parts around the size of a golf club that cost $5-7 a piece, materials ranged from 455 to 17-4 ss. Now they are costing me $12-15 a piece and tooling cost have doubled.

Something has to give in order to keep cost down, usually quality or labor.

The knife world is a microcosm and reflection of bigger economic issues. I don't think there is a clear answer on how to keep knife cost down, except to not buy them. This will force a reducing in manufacturers but ultimately hurt consumers with fewer choices.
 
Economics at play here, without cheaper Chinese labor we'll end up paying the price. With our reduced amount of expendable income we will buy less goods and it will hurt domestic industries all over.

Won't stop me from buying emersons though
Or maybe a ZT
 
Woodcamo Nut said:
Everything is going up in price, it's mainly because utility and gas prices went up.

Knife companies don't get free electricity when they manufacture their products.
Click to expand...
The thing that intrigues me is that knives from premium makers like Chris Reeve don't seem to be increasing in price, or at least not nearly as rapidly as knives from high-quality production companies. For example, the price of a Small Plain Sebenza in 2005 was $330.00 and a Large Sebenza was $385.00. Today they're $350.00 and $410.00 respectively. Sebenza quality hasn't diminished over the past 10 years, so the question has to be asked. Have utility and gas prices gone up less for Chris than for Spyderco or Benchmade or ZT?

foofie said:
The prices on customs have not gone up by nearly as much...
I seem to be spending much more time on those forums than the production forums now.
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Good point! You'd think higher production costs would affect custom makers more than production makers. Custom makers can't take advantage of economies of scale the way production makers can. But just the opposite appears to be happening. Personally, I think you're on the right track hanging out in the customs area. The higher prices climb on production pieces, the more customs start to look like bargains.

I used to think that people who said that they wouldn't buy (fill in the blank) because the value isn't there anymore were just complainers. Now I'm beginning to wonder if they weren't right all along. To quote The Bard, something is rotten in the State of Denmark.
 
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Kershaws stuff from China does seem to cost almost as much as some of the regular USA made stuff. I see knives listed on their site for $60+ that it's made in China. I bought a leek from tool truck for about that price
 
I haven't paid close enough attention to prices on offshore goods from production knife companies to determine if there's been a tendency to increase their prices as well. If there has been, I assume it's proportional to price increases on their domestic products.

There comes a point where the discerning knife buyer has to make a decision . . . keep paying ever-increasing prices for goods that don't increase in quality, stop buying products from companies who employ that strategy, buy used products from those companies on the secondary market to keep prices in line with perceived value, or switch altogether and buy customs instead. For my part, I think I'll be taking a much closer look at custom makers and manufacturers like Chris Reeve who hold the line on their price increases the next time I'm in the market to purchase a high-quality knife.
 
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And to further the disconnect between production cost increases related to utilities, inflation, materials scarcity, or what have you, with Benchmade at least, they are making no more money in the immediate due to their price increase. The increase in price goes directly to dealer pockets.

This discussion is extremely relevant as ZT has chosen to discontinue a whole bunch of their most iconic knives.
 
I agree that prices are getting somewhat ridiculous. There is a component of production costs rising, but it's naive to think that companies and some makers are not cashing in on the knife craze bubble.

With that being said, I also feel like we are reaching a point of saturation in the market, maybe it's just me, but it seems like knives are sitting in the classifieds for a very long time even when sold at reasonable prices.

I just saw one maker slash his prices across the board in anticipation of a slowdown, or perhaps because his sales had actually slowed down.

There is a lot of competition out there and Russia and China are churning out some really awesome knives these days as well.
 
This happened a few years ago in the musical instrument industry, specifically guitars. There was a shift of production of higher-end instruments from the US and Japan to South Korea, while the "high value" instruments were moved to India, Indonesia and eventually China. The US-made guitars were sent to Mexico for parts of the assembly process, yet the prices didn't go down, and model names/numbers were carried over when a particular manufacturer moved production to a country with lower labor costs, so many buyers didn't notice that an $800 Japanese guitar was suddenly made in China but still cost $800. Over time, the QC improved, but the first couple of years after a transition were often a bit rough. Now, you can get a very nice guitar from China, but it will cost as much as its American or Japanese predecessor did just a few years ago, and just as with knives, there are also still plenty of cheap, cheaply made Chinese instruments with horrible QC made from materials that simply won't stand up to frequent use.
 
There are also knives coming out of China with materials, fit and finish that compare favorably with those of domestic products. Stick with offshore knives from name-brand manufacturers and you'll generally be all right.
 
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I think on the custom end prices are just getting silly. 700+ seems to be the norm on many,even newer makers I never heard of.Fixed blades as well ; 1 piece stock with handles bolted on are 350+; its crazy.at this point its going to have to be something real special to get me into the 400+ range.i just don't want to spend that kind of money anymore....
 
I hear you, goldie. I'm glad I got into the hobby before prices skyrocketed. I've got enough high-end production and custom pieces to last me 'til the cows come home. Guess I'll kick back and watch the action as production knives increasingly push past the $200 price point and customs go clear through the roof. PS: It's nice to know that if the bug bites me, I can still buy a Sebenza for little more than I'd have paid it a decade ago. At the rate things are going, I can't help but wonder how much longer it will be before the Sebenza earns Blade Magazine's Best Buy of the Year Award. ;)
 
When the material prices go up, so do the knives. Steel prices have gone up, carbon fiber has gone up, electricity has gone up, all that has to be taken into account. It's not like they are just jacking up the price to make more money, well, not all of them.
 
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