Knife Sharpeners.

Spey said:
Add to razor-edge-knives #2 Comment:
Yes, if you care about blade scratching using Apex Edge pro - protect the blade (blue painters tape,etc.), don't use stones that require messy water-slurry, and consider this design allows for very low edge angles (way below most other sharpening systems). On some knives I run progressive asymmetrical edges that vary down to 10-dps (steeper/thicker in areas of high load). I think you'd be hard pressed to find another fixed-angle system that allows 10-dps and lower angles (granted most users may have no need of this, but some do depending on project requirements). I think this is one of the most univeral base systems, and allows for a fair amount of customization to further expanded applications.
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With a few accessories I can get down to 5 dps on my Wicked Edge =) I am going to try to do a vid and post it up soon for others.
 
razor-edge-knives said:
With a few accessories I can get down to 5 dps on my Wicked Edge =) I am going to try to do a vid and post it up soon for others.
Click to expand...

Josh,

First let me say, props to ya, I like what you are doing!!

I think we would agree, the Wicked Edge is not "most other sharpening systems" ..., and I understand that with "attachments" like maybe narrower jaw sets, extended jaw sets, etc., whatever (that further drive exclusivity & more importantly costs into the stratosphere) a W.E. can be made to achieve very low bevel and resultant apex angles.

Additionally, I think very highly of this system and came VERY close to buying into the W.E. a couple years ago except that for me personally there were a few things that kept me from buying (I am kinda anal about spending that much money, and spent a lot of time looking into the W.E., calling and speaking with Clay and a younger gentleman at W.E.). They are a class act, and I would say the same for Ben at EdgePro.

Comparatively, I know I have actually gone down to under 5-dps on my EdgePro, but I had never measured the minimum until just now. Just checked it at 2.8-dps, as measured from the table at zero index. As you may know, that would mean 2.8-dps if ricasso is laying flat on the table and/or the angle would be steeper (twice that amount 5.6-dps) if a flat bevel were laid on the table like many do when they use this system. This can allow degree-indexed grinding of say a primary bevel for example (say maybe a Spyderco Military with around a 2.7 - 3-dps primary).

Reference Photo of 2.8-dps on a 2"x6" 220/600 dual-sided diamond stone:

In no way do I want this OP's thread to turn into a which is better thread, as I truly believe individuals need to do their own research based on their own personal needs & wishes. For me something like a DMT Aligner gets an edge to hair whittling fairly easily and repeatably, and with a course set of diamond stones re-profiling is not that bad. With a few minutes of careful stropping, tree-topping is achievable if desired. The EdgePro makes working on longer blades much faster, and significantly reduces/eliminates that changing-bevel-width-issue (which is really the bevel angle changing) that is associated with fixed-clamp designs.

It's always gonna be more the user than the tool i.m.h.o.

Respectfully,

I agree - This thread needs some eye-candy ...

Cold Steel Ti-Lite in AUS8A done over a year ago on a DTM-Aligner:
Ti-Lite HairTest.jpg

Spyderco PM2 in S30V DLC done over a year ago on a DTM-Aligner:
PM2_HairTest-4---LowRes.jpg

Spyderco Military TiG10-Millie-AnoBlueIce in S30V with asymmetrical L/R bevel done on EdgePro couple months ago:
(15-dps secondary presenation-right-side, 17.5/15-dps dual-degree-bevel secondary left-side)
Short vid hair chopping (turn up volume to hear the hair pop as it is cleaved off)
I have found that at this level the edge will also "treetop" (and I have very thin hair)
[video]http://instagram.com/p/vr9A92TNGv/?modal=true[/video]

Regards,
 
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I have owned alot of sharpeners and unless u actually like knife sharpening as a hobby, just send the knife out to be reprofiled to work on a sharpmaker.
 
I notice that nobody has mentioned the Lansky system. Seems to operate on the same principle as both the Wicked Edge and EdgePro systems, i.e. knife is clamped, abrasive is rod-guided. Looks a to be both less adjustable and less sturdy than the others, however.

I just ordered a Lansky for my inlaws for xmas. I generally get asked to sharpen the kitchen knives when I visit (their big sharpening advance was buying some 1"x3" folding field sharpening diamond hones).

My Father In Law asked if there was "a machine" they could use, and I figure this takes a lot of the guess work out of it. Maybe the inlaws can learn to use it, maybe it's there for me to use.

If nothing else, it's not expensive.
 
I use DMT benchstones or the Aligner rig for sharpening and re-profiling and a Sharpmaker for touch-ups and maintenance. That combination has worked very well for me so far on a wide variety of steels.
 
Roadracer_Al said:
I notice that nobody has mentioned the Lansky system. Seems to operate on the same principle as both the Wicked Edge and EdgePro systems, i.e. knife is clamped, abrasive is rod-guided. Looks a to be both less adjustable and less sturdy than the others, however.

I just ordered a Lansky for my inlaws for xmas. I generally get asked to sharpen the kitchen knives when I visit (their big sharpening advance was buying some 1"x3" folding field sharpening diamond hones).

My Father In Law asked if there was "a machine" they could use, and I figure this takes a lot of the guess work out of it. Maybe the inlaws can learn to use it, maybe it's there for me to use.

If nothing else, it's not expensive.
Click to expand...

Yes, both Lansky & the DMT-Aligner mentioned and discussed above.
Anyone who likes the Lansky or DMT might also want to check out the KME system as it incorporates a fairly unique jaw-clamping system.

Each are great portable systems with options for natural stones for softer steels & diamond stones for work on harder steels. I also use my DTM-Aligner stones on EdgePro and in some free-hand work on knives, ski&snowboard-edges, etc.
 
I use the Lansky for my pocket knives, but for longer blades like on kitchen knives it isn't really practical because you have to reclamp and do the knife in sections, otherwise the changing angle as you move further away from the clamp becomes an issue.
 
best advice i can give is to try as many as you can, ask people what they use and see if you can try it out. as you can see from this thread you have lots of choices and most of us will swear by the one we use. i use a gatco which is like the lansky sharpener but i will be buying a work sharp soon, i tried out a friends and really liked it. but the gatco is great as well, gets my blades shaving sharp it can do 15-30deg angles
but the bottom line is any of the sharpeners recommended will work great once you get enough practice, some just have a steeper learning curve then others but hey thats what makes it fun
 
Also, do you need to split hair? Or just need a durable edge that doesn't need sharpening often? Or in between?
 
Mike your probably not gonna wanna hear this but with hundreds and hundreds invested into sharpening systems and easy sharpeners.

With all the stuff I have I do the bulk of my sharpening on a medium and fine EZ-Lap 8" diamond hones for nearly everything new and unknown and the super steels. You do have to watch with diamonds and high carbon steel like 1095 it will wear your blade to nothing. Use the right stones/hones/tools for the job, (I'm comin down the home stretch almost done with my monologue). Every serious knife user/owner/collector should have at the very least a set of bench stones in varying grits and mediums, but the best you can afford, don't scrimp on stones. Regular stones can be fixed fixed/flattened for the most part. Sharp makers are great for a quick touch up on the kitchen knives and with a little practice you can achieve hair whittling results. You can get that from machines, a nice 2"X72" BurrKing belt grinder, a set of paper wheel sharpeners Andy one of the knife "in a jig" sharpeners Ben Dales Edgepro, (I have one of those too) but my point is all these machines/systems take time to learn effectively, might as well learn the traditional way and as long as you have a pocket done/hone you'll never have a full knife. One last comment, people you're sharpening your knives way to often trying vto maintain scalpel like edges, your causing premature wear. Learn the difference between a working edge which will cut forever and a wide variety of materials at that and a job specific edge. Don't over sharpen, your knives will last longer and save you money in the long run.
I guess all I'm saying is learn the old way first, from there everything else is just icing.o
 
Thank you all, some very good advice! I'm going to take my time and try to figure all this out. You've all no doubt saved me many hours I would have otherwise wasted.

Thanks again
Mike
 
DSC02296-001.JPG
 
I like my Edge Pro Apex. It works very very well it's a razor sharp edge every time.

Roger
 
I don't think these mechanical tools do a very good job apart from the professional stuff, so I'd echo the statement that you should learn the traditional methods. One thing is that pressure is key. If you don't have experience in the traditional method you may be bearing down to hard on the edge and every time you get a burr and close to sharp you just wear it down more and go back to a dull blade without burr.

The Mors Kochanski pamphlet and youtube videos are worth checking out.

Did you mention the grinds you use? You might be naturally better at sharpening a certain grind. I learned on axes, simply maintaining razor sharp edges. I think the same circling method works for convex knives. This Artisans of Australia video shows the proper way to sharpen an axe (around 16:52, circling to maintain convexity and sharpness, and then once it is sharp you gently swipe along/across the edge):
http://youtu.be/dcoTnER4Efg

You can adapt this for convex knives. There is just a slight hone sound when you work the edge.

For scandi just go really slow when learning. You can use the index finger of your left hand to keep the bevel flat on the forward stroke, and then your thumb seems to work better on the back stroke. Go slow, and eventually you will learn the angle, the sound, and the feel of cutting across the stone.

And remember, the most important thing is to be gentle. Apart from removing heavy material it is like you are simply using the weight of the edge itself to sharpen (or even less). You need very little pressure, even less so when you get close to the razor edge. Few people mention this.
 
Spey said:
Comparatively, I know I have actually gone down to under 5-dps on my EdgePro, but I had never measured the minimum until just now. Just checked it at 2.8-dps, as measured from the table at zero index. As you may know, that would mean 2.8-dps if ricasso is laying flat on the table and/or the angle would be steeper (twice that amount 5.6-dps) if a flat bevel were laid on the table like many do when they use this system. This can allow degree-indexed grinding of say a primary bevel for example (say maybe a Spyderco Military with around a 2.7 - 3-dps primary).

Reference Photo of 2.8-dps on a 2"x6" 220/600 dual-sided diamond stone:
Click to expand...


I agree and for people on a budget that want a nice system for a good $ in which you get a lot of bang for your buck, the Edge Pro Apex is AWESOME. For personal use, this is all you practically need. The nice thing is that, as you say, you can get extremely low angles with the stock set up and you can also add on the stones/tape/strop to get to whatever level you want later. I have had the Edge Pro Apex, Edge Pro Professional, and now the WEPS. They are all great systems with the Apex being the cheapest $ wise and I would highly recommend it. I found the learning curve to be pretty low on both systems if you have a little hand & eye coordination =)
 
Sharpening knives is not so much about the device used as it is applying the proper technique to achieve the desired goal. Over the last 30 years I've come across dozens of different ways to produce a fine edge. Some of them are easier accomplished than others. What ever the method, you have to invest the time to learn that method; I would suggest learning more than one. One never knows the circumstance or predicament in which they might find themselves, in as much, it's best to take the time to learn and refine numerous techniques. In the martial arts I trained for years to where I could drive my hand through a water mellon clear to the elbow, I also trained in weaponry, I could also slice one in half with a small sharp kama . :) Its all about technique.
 
Edge Pro or DMT diamond stones is what I use along with my Sharpmaker and strop.
 
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