Knife Show Question

"Those are your people, Jerry" ....Lester, those are associates and I was not with them but out of my league so I was told. That's OK I will just play my own little piano.

Jerry you have the right idea, go where the action is and have fun with it, I like the "associates" part, all too often we are labeled where it is not warranted.
 
Hi Jerry,

The Buckmaster's program is what I was referring to.

As well my point about the $1,500 being the low end of knife making. You can probably tell I found that comment by Josh problematic. As either he ignorant of the custom knife market (ignorant as in "not knowledgeable" not an indication of his intelligence level. Example I am ignorant of country music) or he is either consciously or subconsciously promoting himself and his work on this forum. As in...He isn't selling much in the "low end" market.

I suspect it is a combination of both. Nothing wrong with self-promotion. My issue would be if I was one of those "low end" makers or collectors. I might have to take exception with the fact that one of the promoters of the Expo wrote that in a public location.

Now before everyone rides to Josh's defense...I didn't say that is how he personally feels...However, those involved with the promotion of a show have to be careful about the things they say in public. As some people might take that the wrong way.

Jerry when I wrote these are you people...I forgot to put this after it..:D

I realize that you have absolutely nothing to do with the ABS BOD. It appears to be their inability to understand the wants and desires of the current market. Which is at least equally as responsible as the "heat" for the Expo's slow sales.

I feel that the knife organizations that were put in place to help promote knives have had some success.

But if it is in their charter at all to help their membership and the buyers of their work...they have to a large extent failed them.

Jerry this goes to your point about makers are now having to reinvent the wheel. The organizations they belong to are providing minimal, if any business/marketing guidance.

Jerry, you have done a brilliant job of marketing yourself and your knives. This was true before you started your show...which has been nothing but a huge success.

The fact that knife maker organizations have not contacted you to conduct seminars, write articles for their newsletters, etc. confounds me.

Any successful business seeks out the most highly qualified people, specialist(s), whose expertise will bring even more success to that business.

I just reread the above sentence....now I get it.

BTW, you are right they are not your people...and calling the ABS BOD, your "associates" is a very professional way to put it.
 
Ed,

"Those are your people, Jerry" ....Lester, those are associates and I was not with them but out of my league so I was told. That's OK I will just play my own little piano.
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So the ABS told you that you and your knives were not somehow "worthy" to be in their Expo or Organization.

Wow...so an ABS MS (1991) is some how not in their league. What are they basing you lack of worthiness on?

Apparently the internal problems are worse than I thought.
 
Les: I quit the Expo years ago when they told me I had to wear a sport coat. That is when I knew it was not a show for me, I was invited to come to the last one but did not even answer the invite. When they squawked about Jim Lucie showing some of his Scagels at the Guild Show and a few blade smiths joining that Show I knew they were no longer my people. By they I speak of the "leaders".

There are some great folks in the ABS, the ABS is not the board, I feel it is a lot of blade smiths who contribute to a spirit that will live in spite of the ossified hierarchy.

I was told by the status quo that I no longer represent the general membership of the ABS, I wonder about that, but hope that I no longer represent the goals of the present "leadership", of that I would be proud.

Only two remained in the drawing for the MS blade to be auctioned off a few years ago, they opened it up again to take me off of the list. That year due to some health problems I had already made my MS Bowie for the next years auction, I donated it to the local 1836 Rendezvous association and it sold for $6,000, the ABS MS knife that year brought less than $1,000. I thank them for turning my contribution down for I believe it went to a much more worthy cause.

I am proud of the membership of the ABS, and still belong out of loyalty to those who were the leaders when I joined and my personal dedication to the forged blade.
 
Don Hanson III said:
The last show I brought knives home from would have been the AG Russell show last year (09). I sold one knife and brought home four :o
Why? It was the slowest show I've ever attended, very low attendance but still fun.
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Attendance wasz up 50% this year, our sales up 75%
 
A. G. Russell said:
Attendance wasz up 50% this year, our sales up 75%
Click to expand...
:thumbup:

I think it was directly related to your strong internet presence:D
We should call you A.G. Russell 2.0:)

I get people telling me all the time they don't want to deal with creating and maintaining a Facebook presence for their knife business
Or creating a blog or YouTube channel
I tell them, "Look at A.G. Russell...HE has a Facebook page and he seems to be doing alright"

You should give a Facebook discount/coupon for your knife show next year and see how many people come to the show after hearing about it on Facebook:cool:

I would have never heard about it if I were not for your Facebook wall post....BTW
 
Trent Rock said:
:thumbup:

I think it was directly related to your strong internet presence:D
We should call you A.G. Russell 2.0:)

I get people telling me all the time they don't want to deal with creating and maintaining a Facebook presence for their knife business
Or creating a blog or YouTube channel
I tell them, "Look at A.G. Russell...HE has a Facebook page and he seems to be doing alright"

You should give a Facebook discount/coupon for your knife show next year and see how many people come to the show after hearing about it on Facebook:cool:

I would have never heard about it if I were not for your Facebook wall post....BTW
Click to expand...

Great idea, I would not remember but I just sent email to keeper of the calander. Thanks
 
now we're talkin.
 
A. G. Russell said:
Great idea, I would not remember but I just sent email to keeper of the calander. Thanks
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A.G. Rocks Facebook.

Thanks for letting me post my videos on your page..

Money is coming like a freight train.

They love the ghetto gear $$...

Thanks...

[youtube]p4wOnFiloYU[/youtube]
 
Les Robertson said:
Hey Jerry,

I hear what you are saying...people call for changes...people want the promoters to do something.

I offered some ideas to the ABS (Via Josh Smith). Josh's response was he needed a business plan, etc. I was in no way indicating I wanted to run the show. Those are your people Jerry. Perhaps changes can start first with the ABS.

Les, you never actually offer any ideas. You just blab your mouth and don't actually offer anything. You keep coming back to me as if I'm the go to ABS guy. I told you to take your ideas to the board. You just seem happier to bitch.B]

My ideas were geared directly at collectors. ALL COLLECTORS...not just the "High Profile Type". But those "average joe collectors" who are interested in those low end knives (under $1,500 as Josh Smith calls them). The ideas and implementation are simple, focused and will be timely.

Don't make it sound like I was denigrating collectors under $1500. I'm well aware that $1500 is a ton of money for a knife. I was making a larger point when I posted that. Every maker and collector has different levels of what is high end and low end. Low end does not mean less important. I will re-post it if you can't remember. My first knife was $20 Les. I built my career making knives under $1500 and I still make at least 20 knives a year under $1500.

BTW, 'average joe collectors" buying those "low end knives" make up about 90% of the sales at any given knife show.
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If your such an authority Les then why are you not running shows of your own? Why don't you start your own knife organization and lead us all to the promise land. It would be so easy Les and you could just crush the ABS and Guild. Your just bitter because on one wants you involved in their organization. Much like CKCA. Didn't take you long to where out your welcome there, did it?

Fact is your just a self appointed expert that's bitter because most of the knife world could care less what you think. Being around a long time doesn't make you an expert Les.

People who actually have productive ideas put them into action and then lead...see Paul Shindler-Boston, Dave Harvey - Solvang, Phil Lobred- AKI, A.G. Russell- A.B. Russell Show, Steve D'Lack- New York/ Santa Barbara. These people get things done. You just tear things down Les.

You continue to name me when you have issues with the ABS. Well here's your news flash. There are a ton of changes I'd love to make to the ABS show and the organization, but I can't. Instead of being bitter, like you, I help where I can such as serving on the ABS Expo committee. That's right, it's a committee. Not the Josh Smith show. We offer ideas to the board and the board votes.

That's why I've always told you to take your golden nuggets of wisdom to the board. But you're too chicken to call Greg Neely and get on the ABS Board agenda. Instead you whine and cry that Josh Smith won't listen to me...Josh Smith won't carry my water to the board meeting. Be a man and carry your own water Les!
 
In Case you don't remember what I said Les.


My thoughts on Shows...for what it's worth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since starting the Big Sky Show a few years ago I have gains a new perspective on the knife market. I thought I would share my perspective. These are my opinions from a show organizer and maker perspective.

From the High End Knife Perspective First...

The makers I invite tend to sell knives in what most would determine to be the higher end of the market. While organizing my show I ask each maker for customer lists that I can mail to, with the promise that those lists remain private of coarse. The most shocking thing to me is how many collectors makers in the higher end share. In fact I have noticed that there are just a few dozen collectors that do a great deal of the buying, at least from the makers I've invited. These are forged blade and stock removal makers alike. After just a couple years of doing this it is rare from me to get a new name for my mailing list.

Now obviously there are more than three dozen high end knife buyers out there. But when we begin talking about why shows are not doing so well you have to consider how many of those buyers are willing to travel for knives. It appears to me that we are really hammering the same two dozen collectors, show after show after show.

Luckily for my show the collectors have attended and bought knives. But the question becomes how many shows can these collectors go to and spend heavily.

These are the show that seem to attract the most collectors...New York, Solvang, Blade, Big Sky, AKI, Fisk Show, and Boston. Some of the other show will get some of these collectors too but it seems the high end buyer lean toward those shows.

Seems to me that shows have to be very unique and interesting to be highly successful. Other than Blade most of those shows are smaller and more personal.

I guess what it feels like is that we are just hammering the same high end collectors month after month. This is where the economy comes in. To me the economy in the last three years has not produced a great deal of new collectors. Maybe when the economy turns around we will begin to see new money. Just feels like in general we are in a new collector lull right now. Again I'm talking about shows here. I know the Internet has a great deal more buyers, new and old.

Low End Knives...i.e. under $1500 or so

I have had a hard time making and selling lower end knives lately because it is nearly impossible to compete with the talented new part time knife makers that charge 1/2 of what most full time makers charge. When you walk around blade there are very well made mosaic damascus Bowie's with ivory for $800. The ivory alone costs the maker $300. You can not survive as a full time maker on that. It is hard for new collectors to understand why it may be more beneficial to buy that same knife for $1600 from a maker with staying power. It seems to me that we are creating way more knife makers right now than collectors.

It must be very difficult for new makers that are making hunting knives to distinguish themselves. To me the Internet, knife dealers, and local events is the best way for those makers to push their work and gain popularity. Then mix in the right two or three shows.

Where I think the economy is most affecting people is in the middle class, blue collar America. The guy with a great construction business just four years ago would go to Blade, Arkansas, Oregon, or Blade West and buy $300-$800 knives. Those guys seem to have really tightened up. Many of them seem to still be buying on the Internet however they are not travelling to shows as much.

I guess I feel there is not one magic answer to fix shows. Seems like there are many different issues going on.

For me I go to shows now to mostly meet collectors and put my face out there. Yes I want to sell knives but I feel two or three shows a year spread across the country is plenty. From there I feel my time is best spent marketing right from home. For me Facebook, my website, forums, and my email list are big. Donating knives locally also gets your name out in a great way. Many of the big hunting and fishing clubs have high end donors that are blown away by our work.

These are just my opinions and I'm sure responses will vary. In the end I think things will get better with shows but some shows will not survive. Maybe many show will have to reset what they feel a successful show is. An entire sell out may not be as reasonable. Maybe good attendance, moderate sales, and educating the new buyers should be considered successful.
__________________
 
joshsmith said:
If your such an authority Les then why are you not running shows of your own? Why don't you start your own knife organization and lead us all to the promise land. It would be so easy Les and you could just crush the ABS and Guild. Your just bitter because on one wants you involved in their organization. Much like CKCA. Didn't take you long to where out your welcome there, did it?

Fact is your just a self appointed expert that's bitter because most of the knife world could care less what you think. Being around a long time doesn't make you an expert Les.

People who actually have productive ideas put them into action and then lead...see Paul Shindler-Boston, Dave Harvey - Solvang, Phil Lobred- AKI, A.G. Russell- A.B. Russell Show, Steve D'Lack- New York/ Santa Barbara. These people get things done. You just tear things down Les.

You continue to name me when you have issues with the ABS. Well here's your news flash. There are a ton of changes I'd love to make to the ABS show and the organization, but I can't. Instead of being bitter, like you, I help where I can such as serving on the ABS Expo committee. That's right, it's a committee. Not the Josh Smith show. We offer ideas to the board and the board votes.

That's why I've always told you to take your golden nuggets of wisdom to the board. But you're too chicken to call Greg Neely and get on the ABS Board agenda. Instead you whine and cry that Josh Smith won't listen to me...Josh Smith won't carry my water to the board meeting. Be a man and carry your own water Les!
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Come on Josh, come out in the open and tell us what you really think!
 
If you didn't remember Les, you never offered us any ideas. You offered this...


While my ideas wouldn't take big time commitment...it would take a commitment over the course of the next 16 months. Asking a maker to take time away from their knife making just isn't going to happen.

I'm not trying to be coy or evasive as to what my ideas are...but they will cost money...to both the ABS and the table holders. Also it will require a commitment of time and information again from both the ABS and the table holders.

Ultimately you will have market saturation for the Expo that few shows have ever had.

Talk it over with the board and membership. If they are willing to spend the money and time it will take, get back to me. As for money, I'm not talking tens of thousands of dollars...but it will be $5,000 +/- a $1,000.


Then Les, I responded with this...NOTICE THE LAST LINE!


I think our website it pretty darn nice. Sure it took a while, but I think it turned out well.

If you would like to be the promoter for our show then come to our board with your proposal. Show us what you can do. How many more buyers are you going to get? What is your strategy? How much is it going to cost? Are you willing to be paid based on performance? What track record of successful shows do you have? Why are you not currently a show promoter? These are all questions their going to have and more. If you can answer those, your business plan is solid, and the bottom line balances then you'll get the job.

I'm a committee member. Not a board member. I'm doing my best to promote our show. If you have the answers then take them to the higher powers.



Those questions seem fair to me. You were saying you wanted between $4000-$6000 for your ideas. I think it is only fair to ask a couple questions!

I think this just illustrates that you spin my words while you talk out of both sides of your mouth Les.
 
Hey Josh,

The past week has given me a lot of time to reflect.

All I can say is (( take the rest of it offline. Nobody here needs language lessons. If that's what it takes to get your ideas noticed, your ideas need more work. - EB ))
 
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I'm sorry for your tough week. I liked Bob a lot. He was a good guy. My timing may have been poor, but when I get on here after being off a couple weeks and see what your saying and using my name...well I didn't appreciate it.

Obviously this has gone to far.
 
joshsmith said:
I'm sorry for your tough week. I liked Bob a lot. He was a good guy. My timing may have been poor, but when I get on here after being off a couple weeks and see what your saying and using my name...well I didn't appreciate it.

Obviously this has gone too far.
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Josh, very classy response.:thumbup:

Marcel
 
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