Knife Show Question

Les Robertson said:
Hence the quandary of most makers...especially new ones (1-5 year).

What is a "realistic" price?
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We spent a CHUNK of time on that topic at Ashokan - it could easily have been a single talking point for the hour. To say that there was a fair bit of interest would be an understatement.

Roger
 
I have it on good authority that during lunch last Saturday at the Guild Show. An article on this very topic has been suggested to an editor of one of the major knife publications! :D

Hey Roger,

I figured you and Peter weren't actually singing!
 
You could probably devote an eight hour seminar to knifemaker pricing structure and still not have enough time.

Custom knife pricing is a somewhat complex subject as compared to other businesses pricing their products. For example, if you are a tire dealer the market pretty much sets your prices if you are to stay in business. Though this is similar to some degree in regard to custom knives, there's a lot of different considerations when pricing handmade or art objects in regard to what the public will or will not pay for your work and in comparison to other's work.
 
$300 for food was much more of an estimate than the other figures. I have all my receipts, just not within reach right now.

While I obviously was in the worst shape of my life at the ABS show, the $$$ figure for food was not because Angi and I pigged out... it's more because it's expensive to eat in a touristy town like San Antonio (for the most part).

And that WAS considering our good friend Mr. Long bought us lunch the day we arrived!!! :) :thumbup:
 
Bummed me right out seeing Holger's post in that old thread. I miss that guy.

Roger
 
I would be curious how many collectors would rather pay a premium for a knife and have a better selection. I know adding a surcharge is maybe an unrealistic thing, and i cannot say i have any idea if/how it is ethical. Supply/ demand does beg the question if one jas tp resort to lottery because of popularity. But, Les has made a good point "what happens when your demand fizzles?" do you reduce your prices and make people upset - who have purchased at "full retail". ?

Myself, the only time i've been upset over pricing was learning of heavy dealer discounts offered in exchange to promote the maker's work. While this is fair in the grand scheme of things, it killed my incentive to purchase knives when the "value" seemed "arbitrary".

Since i have only a specific interest in the custom genre it hasnt affected me to a degree, where i am lucky to ever see a knife on the table. Ed's prices are comparatively high, but I havent missed finding those that I would have made the trip for, alone. So, it does work. Whatever "it" is. ;)
David
 
Hi David,

Myself, the only time I've been upset over pricing was learning of heavy dealer discounts offered in exchange to promote the maker's work. While this is fair in the grand scheme of things, it killed my incentive to purchase knives when the "value" seemed "arbitrary".
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Who is giving heavy dealer discounts???? :D :D :D

You can PM me! :D
 
HI Kevin,

You could probably devote an eight hour seminar to knifemaker pricing structure and still not have enough time.
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30 minutes worth of instruction...30 minutes for questions. That should do it.

Or a 1500 word article.

The biggest issue is short term thinking vs. long term planning.

Pricing is hard because makers don't know their position in the market.

EDIT: First issue is a maker not knowing their position in the market. Second issue, a maker not understanding the difference between an "asking" price and a "selling" price. More times than not...they are not the same.
 
The internet has killed the knife industry plus helped it,kinda like gunbroker colt pythons nothing under $1600 unless it a pos,i went to a gun & knife show last weekend sold a very wore out nickel 60% diamond back 38 for $810 it was worth bout $500 but what do i know........
 
NickWheeler said:
Costs for me?

Airfare for two - $860 from Portland to San Antonio
Checked baggage fee - $90
Airport Parking fee - $50
Cab-fare from airport (to and from) - $50
Hotel - ~$400
Show table - $400
Food for the week-end - ~$300
Clean and press two suits - $45
Two knives photographed at show - $250

I'll leave off stuff like the carriage ride, trip up to the Tower of the Americas, TIPS, etc..... as that stuff was for fun and not HAVE TO costs.

So that's $2,445.
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OK
So that's your costs
What about your revenue?
Can't leave me hanging like that good sir :D
Just tell me if your net profit is positive or negative
Or you can tell me it's none of my damn business
I'm cool with that too.....

This idea of just adding $100 or $200 to a knife to keep it there longer.... ???

So how does that work? Do you label them "I'm not overpricing these, I'm adding on a ~still available on Sunday~ surcharge" ????? If somebody REALLY wants your knife they'll pay the inflated price, or, most likely, they'll just think you're asking too much money for that piece and move on quietly.
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Tell the 10 people who want to buy your knife for 1,000 Thursday night at the hotel lobby bar that new asking price is now $1,500
Tell them if the knife is not sold by sundown on Sunday===>
"I'll meet you in the parking lot and sell it to you for $999.99.................."
Like I said
Simple......;)
Like the great Ron Popeil once said
Set it and forget it!!!!!
ron1.jpg


or, most likely, they'll just think you're asking too much money for that piece and move on quietly.
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That is a good question
I'm not so sure I'd say most likely however
Or maybe they will pull out their wallet and hand you all Franklins and walk away telling their buddy that they "got a steal"
Then again, I'm kind of an optimist in general
I have faith in rational thinking American consumers
You could be right though...they may walk away
 
My opinion what what AV8R was trying to bring up is that he is right. It will not work like it did 25 years ago. It is between makers most of the problem at shows. To fix it you would have to look at the base.
Promoters themselves are still stuck 25 years ago and with a past economy.
Yes, the makers for the most part are fighting to get those few "known" collectors since more of the makers are doing it full time or taking it really serious they have to scramble for the money to make expenses then take home money to mama. Take for instance what Josh said, he pretty much does not add more names to his collector base for his show now or not often.

In other words in my opinion this business is not progessing we are just feeding on our own bodies at this point which has a limited time limit. Can it be fixed, sure. I am sure there are a lot of opinions on how to fix it. So yall have at it.

Personally,most of my client base are the "unheard" of collectors. Some of my best clients do not do knife shows or they have done one only total. I have some that does one or two shows annually a few that does 3 or 4 but just a few of them. How did I find them? And find them I did. You gotta go look for them. When was the last time a promoter set up a booth at different collectable venue to talk about his knife show? How many times has he done that. Shows are normally ran in the trade magazine talked about on the trade forums and that is pretty much it.
I don't have the answer for everyone but there does need to be some changes.
 
Hey Jerry,

When was the last time a promoter set up a booth at different collectible venue to talk about his knife show? How many times has he done that.
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So when the promoter has to raise the table fees to cover the additional exposure....you would be amazed at how many makers would squeal at the additional cost.

I was talking with Dan Delevan about his show. An ad in the LA Times would run between $6 and $8K. I don't know what that figures out to for each table holder, probably $50 per table holder.

Given the size of even LA...how many people are you going to get to walk through the door who will be willing to pay $200 - $400 for a knife...having never known about custom knives before?

Lin Rhea was doing a demo at Gun show (I believe) prior to the LR Show. It got people through the door....but no one hurt their arm getting their wallet out.

I hear what you are saying...people call for changes...people want the promoters to do something.

I offered some ideas to the ABS (Via Josh Smith). Josh's response was he needed a business plan, etc. I was in no way indicating I wanted to run the show. Those are your people Jerry. Perhaps changes can start first with the ABS.

I discussed the info to Bruce Voyles over the weekend at the Guild Show. Instead of asking for a business plan etc. He will be immediately implementing these ideas for his show. It will bring more collectors/buyers in the door...and it will result in more sales.

I had a chat with Steve Shackelford at the Guild Show as well....several suggestions that will be implemented that will provide COLLECTORS with information they have not had in the past several years at the Blade show.

My ideas were geared directly at collectors. ALL COLLECTORS...not just the "High Profile Type". But those "average joe collectors" who are interested in those low end knives (under $1,500 as Josh Smith calls them). The ideas and implementation are simple, focused and will be timely.

BTW, 'average joe collectors" buying those "low end knives" make up about 90% of the sales at any given knife show.
 
Les, you are right on the squealing. We went up $25 on the LR tables one time and had a number of makers bail due to the higher price.
Some of the things you can do is for free. Lin and I both have went on to a outdoor sports show a week before the LR show, you could tell directly the body count coming through the show was higher. Many people mentioned seeing us at different times. Our group does a large Buckmasters program that brings in a high body count to the shows. Most all of these folks are not coming in to buy high end, they come in to buy the "Lower" end mentioned, thats good, least they are buying.

"Those are your people, Jerry" ....Lester, those are associates and I was not with them but out of my league so I was told. Thats ok I will just play my own little piano.

Our whole future will revolve around bringing in some new collectors and new thoughts about how to advance our business. I am working on the format of a new show for myself. It does not involve a single person who collects knives. The ABS and the Guild can do much better.

Right now you have a whole group of makers with each having to reinvent the wheel because the help is not there nor do most makers really sit down and plan out their business future.
 
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