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knife snobbery?
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Hot damn!
Ankerson
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Well personally I can only afford knives on the lower end of the "sweet spot" (sub-$150), but I do own $10-$50 knives that I really love and appreciate. But I actually find myself using the more expensive ones for the tougher jobs because I trust them more, and I know the steel can handle it. After all, it's really disappointing to have to spend a bunch of time getting a roll out of an edge because your knife steel wasn't up to the task.
That doesn't mean that someone isn't as good as me or something because they don't own anything more expensive than a Sanrenmu. I get a little bummed out that I can't geek out with those people, but I certainly don't judge them for it. I see a lot of posts on here that seem to mirror that sentiment, and the last thing I would call it is snobbery.
Also, I did a double take when I saw Cold Steel in the "good knives" list, and Buck and Kershaw in the "crap knives" list. Really?
That doesn't mean that someone isn't as good as me or something because they don't own anything more expensive than a Sanrenmu. I get a little bummed out that I can't geek out with those people, but I certainly don't judge them for it. I see a lot of posts on here that seem to mirror that sentiment, and the last thing I would call it is snobbery.
Also, I did a double take when I saw Cold Steel in the "good knives" list, and Buck and Kershaw in the "crap knives" list. Really?
Just sat and read the whole thread. It reminded me of the "steel snobs" thread of a while back.
It showed pretty clearly that one point of being a knife snob is to learn, as was said a lot, that Buck, Kershaw, and Case still make good knives while the others listed aren't as good.
Some people were a bit snobbish in saying this but most were just informative. You can learn a lot from knife snobs.
It's all about getting the best value for your money.
I will say this, don't accumulate too many $20 knives, not even good value ones. Save up and go a little higher.
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Three words:
MADE IN CHINA
FWIW, I don't think you will see anyone around here saying that Kershaw or Buck makes anything but fantastic knives.
-Freq
MADE IN CHINA
FWIW, I don't think you will see anyone around here saying that Kershaw or Buck makes anything but fantastic knives.
-Freq
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Like Ankerson said, I was not referring to production knives, and in other post I specifically mentioned that most of the time factory HT and edge are nowhere near the optimum for high end steels.
Part of the reason is cost savings for manufacturers and part of the reason(or blame if you will) is on the users. Some will complain about no significant gains or sharpening problems, others will damage edges, or break knives etc... E.g. one of the common complaints about Shun knives I've heard and seen is broken tips. Compared to western knives they are fairly thin and considerably harder ~61HRc, which isn't the heardest out there, and still, people toss them into the sinks, drop them on the floor and then blame Shun for broken knives, when in fact all they really have to blame is their own neglect and abuse of the knives.
As for the specific angle, not every steel can take 10 or 12 per side, even considering the use. Thickness behind the edge, angle, and HT, RC all matter. There is not one single factor to determine what makes high performance knife. Although, if a knife can sustain 5-10 per side working edge, obviously it is a very good performer.
Anyhow, the discussion was about 400$ and more expensive knives and that's the performance I can get for that price. Even for expensive production knives, there is a lot to gain by rehardening and regrinding. My benchmade M2 710 went from ~59HRC to 64HRC and thinned down. Performance increase in both cutting ability and edge holding are very significant. Kershaw CPM 110V shallot, also went form 58HRC to 64-65HRC. Thinned down the blade, benefits are even greater and so on. Obviously, I had to pay for regrinding, rehardening and all that. Brings the price up.
I did all that because I knew (learned during the years of collecting) I'd gain a lot in terms of performance and cutting ability and to me that's what those knives were about. I really don't see a point in having 20 mediocre knives, I'd rather have a few top performers. I carry those knives and really enjoy using them because they can perform at those levels.
The problem is, those who accuse others of being a snobs, do not really know what is the performance difference and based on that ignorance make statements which basically boils down to "I don't need that sort of performance, so you must be a snob". Really?
Ankerson
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Yes, exactly.
Most people will never know what that kind of performance is really like, and if they are lucky enough to experience it then they will never look back.
No, those types of knives aren't ment for prying and or other types of abuse, they are cutters at a level of performance that is so high that most people wouldn't believe it.
It's not about snobbery, it's all about performance.
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I'm a firm believer that in most instances you get what you pay for. Also, I'm a bit confused as why you put Cold Steel, Benchmade and Spyderco with the semi custom with Sebenza and Strider. Many Spydercos cost as much as many Kershaws or Bucks.
Anyways, use of better materials say s30v vs 440c increases the price, fabricating G10 or Titanium cost more than molding plastics, screws in construction more expensive than pins. Plus tighter tolerances require more labor and expensive machinery. Of course brand demand can inflate prices somewhat (read Hinderer) but usually the higher MSRP price means more cost involved in the production.
I don't receive as much satisfaction from EDC-ing cheap production knife as I do say by carrying a Sebenza. If this makes me snob so be it. However by following this logic you should NEVER buy anything nice and just get very basic staff all the time.
I judge a knife by how well it perform the tasks I need it to perform.
If all you intend to use your folder for is to cut string and open mail, then you don't really NEED a $500 folder.
In an urban enviornment, the only situation where I could reasonably imagine my life depending on a folder would be if I had to cut myself free from a seat belt after a car accident. I imagine there are many inexpensive folders that could easily handle that without coming apart.
I have several folders that cost between $100 and $200. I have a few that cost $300. But I also have this cheap little Maxim lockback that I got when I was a kid that probably cost under $10. I still carry and use it sometimes because it serves the purpose I carry it for. Lately, I've also been drawn to my 32 year old Buck 110 that cost $25.
I don't care how inexpensive a knife is or what steel it's made of, if it does what I need it to do, that's what matters most to me.
If all you intend to use your folder for is to cut string and open mail, then you don't really NEED a $500 folder.
In an urban enviornment, the only situation where I could reasonably imagine my life depending on a folder would be if I had to cut myself free from a seat belt after a car accident. I imagine there are many inexpensive folders that could easily handle that without coming apart.
I have several folders that cost between $100 and $200. I have a few that cost $300. But I also have this cheap little Maxim lockback that I got when I was a kid that probably cost under $10. I still carry and use it sometimes because it serves the purpose I carry it for. Lately, I've also been drawn to my 32 year old Buck 110 that cost $25.
I don't care how inexpensive a knife is or what steel it's made of, if it does what I need it to do, that's what matters most to me.
Steel130
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Thanks for writing that all out. I have had some beefy folders, I generally like a thinner blade though because to me it does tasks easier, and I dont push my knives farther than what I think they should be. I think what alot of it boils down too is that, people that can't afford more expensive knives, but want them, slander the higher end knives to make themselves feel better about not being able to get them. I know I did that some before I could afford a $200 dollar knife. My last statement could be taken as a blanket statement, but I think to a degree its true. ETA: That Phil Wilson above must be the model the Spyderco Southfork is based off?
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$6 Utility knives are for cutting cardboard, tape, and other crap. Kitchen knives and cutlery are made for food.
Too often, I see people selling a better knife and posting "only cut a few cardboard boxes with it". You might impress the noobs, but, to me, that's just dumb.
I'll never wear a Breitling just to see what time it is, however
Life's too SHORT to carry a CHEAP knife.
Good knives are like jewellery to those of us that appreciate quality and when they are needed,
we can count on them as durable, well-made tools. There IS a difference between $50 and $100 knives.
Diminishing returns occur when knives are "too nice" to sacrifice in times of need.
Too often, I see people selling a better knife and posting "only cut a few cardboard boxes with it". You might impress the noobs, but, to me, that's just dumb.
I'll never wear a Breitling just to see what time it is, however
Life's too SHORT to carry a CHEAP knife.
Good knives are like jewellery to those of us that appreciate quality and when they are needed,
we can count on them as durable, well-made tools. There IS a difference between $50 and $100 knives.
Diminishing returns occur when knives are "too nice" to sacrifice in times of need.
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that knife is sexy :thumbup: :thumbup:
i doubt most people can comprehend how thin that knife is ground to. to give people an idea, a sheet of standard copy paper is .003, your phil custom is as thick as 2 sheets copy paper behind the edge bevel
. my eyes are getting cut just looking at it 
.
Ankerson
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Yes that is the model.
that knife is sexy :thumbup: :thumbup:
i doubt most people can comprehend how thin that knife is ground to. to give people an idea, a sheet of standard copy paper is .003, your phil custom is as thick as 2 sheets copy paper behind the edge bevel
Thanks.
We often have different parameters in a folder. I don't buy $500.00 folders because : 1. I can't afford them. The wife and I have three+ degrees between us and continuing, which is a constant resource drain. 2. I have many interests\hobbies competing for my disposable income. 3. I am primarily interested in outdoor cutting tool use and prioritize performance over aesthetics. If a $50.00 dollar machete performs well I see no practical need to buy one for $100.00., analogous to a folding knife.
When I started metal detecting I bought a decent beginners machine after researching the topic. I did well with that machine and still have it. After a few years I bought a machine that cost roughly three times that of my first detector. The performance of the new machine left my original for dead. So yes I can understand and appreciate why an individual will buy a high end folder. But my personal parameters for a folder are practical performance within a realistic budget. So I do not have $500.00 folders for various reasons. If I won a lottery would I buy super expensive folders ? Probably. But I can't\wont. And it is not a priority for me. Is it knife snobbery when I see someone happily revealing a high quality folder purchase ? Probably not. I know that I get a tinge of jealousy now and then though because I'll likely never own blade X, at least not for a while. Or have to save and put real effort into getting it. Meanwhile, I buy Spyderco, Cold Steel, Ka-Bar, Kershaw folders and have a hell of a lot of fun with them. They cut branches and gut fish just fine. There seems to be a multitude of factors influencing a knife buy. I am pretty comfortable with mine most times as they fit my use patterns. If you can afford a $500.00 folder and appreciate it for its stellar tolerances, materials and workmanship, then good for you bud. Few things in life are black or white, many are various shades of grey. Enjoy your folders and have a wonderful day.
You make an excellent point and bear out what I wanted my first post to say. And that is it is all about disposable income. You can see snobbery against high end knives, as Ankerson mentioned, and against low end knives, as it cuts both way's. But as I said this is not the norm on BF that I have seen.
The fact that we are all limited to what we can spend for our hobbies, and knives are really my only hobby, should not allow snobbery to creep in. After my divorce I found out that my disposable income would now allow me to spend more, to buy some customs along the way, and this is what I have done, but the customs don't cut better than a well sharpened $50 to $100 knife. Now the edge may last longer, but for my needs I don't require a super steel because I don't need to cut very much day in and day out. But because I can afford the higher cost of a $500 to $600 folder, and because I see a design that I'll never find in a production knife, I buy it. This does not make me a snob though, it just makes me a happy knife owner.
i think the impression of snobbery people get is seeing so much mention of the high end stuff. which comes from knife enthusiasts being condensed in one place, where i imagine most people are like me and don't know that many people who get them in real life. so i think people perceive it as snobbery and don't realize it's just a condensed population while they see more of a casual population otherwise. when i talk about an $80-$100 knife with my sergeant (only person i know who buys high end knives) people think we're knife snobs just talking about that price point. just the kind of difference i see between the forum and everyday life.
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I use my StarBenza several times a day cutting cardboard, twine, banding, shrinkwrap, and whetever else needs cut like my kids' toy packaging. Will it outcut my $60-$100 Spydercos? Not really. But it does make me smile a little inside every time I use it. I love the sleek lines, comfortable scale edges, lockup(wow like a bashful kid with a crush), and how I never notice it in my pocket but its always there when I need it. If you can't appreciate it, it isn't worth it. But if it makes you happy day in and day out, its easily justified.
Also nothing like beating a Busse or Kin blade with everything you've got and seeing it basically unaffected. makes me wish I had more time and more stuff to beat on. If it was legal to EDC fixed blades here, Id get a lot more use out of my INFI, but it still brings me plenty of happiness in my off time.
If you can afford it and it makes you happy, why not?
If you haven't handled $300+ knives, you have no idea what you are missing.
Also nothing like beating a Busse or Kin blade with everything you've got and seeing it basically unaffected. makes me wish I had more time and more stuff to beat on. If it was legal to EDC fixed blades here, Id get a lot more use out of my INFI, but it still brings me plenty of happiness in my off time.
If you can afford it and it makes you happy, why not?
If you haven't handled $300+ knives, you have no idea what you are missing.
I don't see it as snobbery, just knowledgable enthusiasts who are more and more able to appreciate the differences that can be had with a more expensive knife. Of course, it's the law of diminishing returns: you can pay four times as much to get a knife 25% better. Nothing wrong with that if you appreciate that extra 25%.
I read a wine book where the author commented that anybody could buy a good wine at big prices. He found satisfaction in finding good wines at cheap prices. That's where I'm at as a beginner knife collector: I like the good knives at low prices. I have a lot of Ka-Bar, Kershaw, Buck, Victorinox, and Mora in my collection.
I read a wine book where the author commented that anybody could buy a good wine at big prices. He found satisfaction in finding good wines at cheap prices. That's where I'm at as a beginner knife collector: I like the good knives at low prices. I have a lot of Ka-Bar, Kershaw, Buck, Victorinox, and Mora in my collection.
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Ankerson
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I believe it's the lack of knowledge and or understanding about were that extra cost comes from that leads to a lot of problems, expectations that are set way too high due to price.
There are a lot of factors that go into what a knife costs so with research some will understand what those things are while others will never understand it.
Just because a knife costs $400 doesn't mean it's going to be 4 times better than a $100 knife in every way, but there will be a noticeable difference in some way even if the person can't see it at a glance.
Then add the price factor all by itself, that will always be an issue one way or another due to various reasons.
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You betcha. My Spydie PM2 with CTS 20CP are in my pocket right now. My BM 690 and my BM 806 AFCK (M390 steel) is on the lamp-table next to me just in case I want to handle them all the time.
I have no safe-queens; I'm not a collector. I just like nice quality stuff. Spydie, BM top my personal list as I try to keep it under $200 a pop.
And yes, I like Griptilians, but would have to get some custom scales (i.e. Wilkins) and then it gets rather expensive.
Sonny
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