Knife Steel: When is enough good enough?

S30V is just fine for my purposes. Candidly, I'd stopped caring about the blade steel. Generally, if its CPM 154, S30V, etc. I am fine. I don't need the latest super alloy for opening boxes.
 
ooitzoo said:
S30V is just fine for my purposes. Candidly, I'd stopped caring about the blade steel. Generally, if its CPM 154, S30V, etc. I am fine. I don't need the latest super alloy for opening boxes.
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You are right in the work horse EDC range with those steels, all are awesome EDC steels. :thumbup:
 
Actually, I *am* using them often. I'm an operations manager working store side for a large retailer. Helping my logistics guys take down freight is a 2-5 times/week thing, I routinely open reserve inventory packaging, I open UPS drop offs on a daily basis, and I break down boxes every day.

I don't need hair-popping sharp to do those things. I need a working edge. No more, no less. As I referenced earlier, the Clash certainly suffered over time without touch up. The Persistence only required two touch ups in over a year to maintain a working (as opposed to hair popping) edge.

By definition, the steel was 'enough'.
 
RBid said:
Actually, I *am* using them often. I'm an operations manager working store side for a large retailer. Helping my logistics guys take down freight is a 2-5 times/week thing, I routinely open reserve inventory packaging, I open UPS drop offs on a daily basis, and I break down boxes every day.

I don't need hair-popping sharp to do those things. I need a working edge. No more, no less. As I referenced earlier, the Clash certainly suffered over time without touch up. The Persistence only required two touch ups in over a year to maintain a working (as opposed to hair popping) edge.

By definition, the steel was 'enough'.
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Are actually cutting anything with the knife?

Breaking tape isn't really cutting, I know what you do for a job as I am in kinda the same field, but the Grocery Business and we see a lot of freight and I am also in Management.... However on Medical LOA now....

I can open boxes without even cutting anything just by breaking the tape most of the time...
 
Ankerson said:
I don't believe anyone is saying that. :D

That said the exotic steels aren't bad at all to maintain, about the same effort as the other steels, but they just need it less.

Where it does take more time is when people want to reprofile them, and yes due to the increased wear resistance it will take longer.

As far as touch ups go a Sharpmaker will make short work of them or a strop that would be used on the other steels.

I can touch up Steels Like S110V in seconds two or 3 passes on each side maybe.... freehand on a Spyderco Med Ceramic rod (File).....

So no they really aren't all that bad to deal with.

It actually can take longer to deal with the lower alloy steels touching them up.... ;)

I have shown people in person how easy it can be and it blows their minds......
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I feel like I reprofile more often than I touch up, lol. I keep my knives touched up, but at least a few times a month I'm having to reprofile something after dealing with a brass fitting, or finding out there was metal in a piece of wood etc. yesterday I had to reprofile an s30v blade and 1095. should have started with the 1095... when I got to it I started at it like the s30v and realized how much I was taking off, lol. with the comment about people acting like 440c or 154cm are garbage, I should have clarified... I don't think the people who mostly use super/exotic steels feel that way, just that I've seen a few specific comments about how those two in particular aren't any good. I really don't like going below aus8 or 440c in stainless, or the 10 series for carbon, so hey, maybe the 420j and pot metal fans see me as an elitist.
 
AUS8 is about the least "special" steel I mess with. That's only cold steel's AUS8 too. It is truly awesome fo what it is. As far as being able to sharpen them... some steels are easier to sharpen than others. For the harder ones use diamond abrasives. The good thing is - if it takes a long time to sharpen a knife, once you get it sharp it stays that way for a long time.

I like carbon steels a lot more than stainless. Tool steels are my favorites. A2 and INFI are my absolute favorites. I have no idea if INFI is considered a tool steel tho.
 
I like the harder steels. I'm loving the D2 on my new benchmade and the Elmax on my ZT. Sure they're a little bit of a PITA to sharpen by hand but that is why I have paper sharpening wheels. I mostly just use the stropping wheel unless I have some chips that need to be ground out. I can get a blade hair whittling sharp in under 5mins. I usually strop a little on a regular leather strop with no compound after, although I probably don't need to.
 
Yes, I cut cardboard and zip ties for the work I discussed above. It's more than breaking tape. Quite a bit more.
 
RBid said:
Yes, I cut cardboard and zip ties for the work I discussed above. It's more than breaking tape. Quite a bit more.
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Sure, I have friends whose knives have gone years without sharpening. Doesn't mean those knives have steels with good edge retention. It works for them but they're not sharp by any definition.
 
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singularity35 said:
Sure, I have friends whose knives have gone years without sharpening. Doesn't mean those knives have steels with good edge retention. It works for them but they're not sharp by any definition.
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I have seen knives like that too, a lot of them over the years....
 
singularity35 said:
Sure, I have friends whose knives have gone years without sharpening. Doesn't mean those knives have steels with good edge retention. It works for them but they're not sharp by any definition.
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There were a few guys at work that were like that. My OCD kicked in and I spent a night touching up their blades for them.

My personal favorites for an EDC are S30V and 1095. For outdoors 1095 and 5160. I have yet get 3V or SR101 to test out but I know I would like them once I got my hands on them. Like all knife nuts I would love to get my hands on the latest super steel but I can't justify the price tag of M390 (just yet).

My personal progression started with your average Chinese no name stainless. When I got to the point where I used my knives enough in one day where I would need to sharpen every night I would move up in steel. From no name to 420HC and AUS 8a. Both kept a great working edge but I wanted a little bit more so I got my first ZT. For MY personal usage I find the S30V to be the perfect balance of use to edge maintenance.
 
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RBid said:
Yes, I cut cardboard and zip ties for the work I discussed above. It's more than breaking tape. Quite a bit more.
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Either you aren't actually cutting very much or that knife you are using is VERY dull..... That's touching up twice a year...?

You aren't going to cut very much cardboard with that steel before it's very dull, I know because I have used a lot of different steels for that purpose over the decades.... And tested even more.....

I am not saying that a knife has to be hair whittling sharp to be considered sharp or even shaving hair off your arm....

But if it won't cut printer paper clean it's DULL...... Cutting printer paper clean is basically a working edge..... If it will do that it will cut cardboard pretty well.

Personally I keep my EDC's sharp enough to cut phone book paper..... But that's me....
 
singularity35 said:
Sure, I have friends whose knives have gone years without sharpening. Doesn't mean those knives have steels with good edge retention. It works for them but they're not sharp by any definition.
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The point, as I said earlier, is that the blades retain enough of a working edge to do the jobs. I'm not talking about hair popping edges. I'm talking about an edge sufficient to get things done in the real world.

Maintaining hair popping edges with 8cr13mov is hardly an issue, either. After months without a touch up, it took just a couple minutes with the Sharpmaker to get the Persistence shaving sharp again.

I think that a realistic view of what "enough" means, defined according to real use, will punctuate the point that we tend to buy beyond what is strictly necessary. This is absolutely OK, of course. There's nothing wrong with going beyond "enough" into superior performance.
 
I started out in life sharpening freehand .Still do but now it's diamond .My earliest is an EZE-LAP rod which I still have but now it's worn to a very fine grit.
I also started out with typical carbon steels but now as a metallurgist I'm curious about new steels so I keep looking . I've known about and appreciated CPM since it came out about over 40 years ago !! Now my favorite is S35VN .My EDC tests are to carry a folder everyday for a year for whatever is needed. The CPMs are better with occasional touch-up rather than waiting till it's very dull. Microserrations are better for them I think.
 
mete said:
I started out in life sharpening freehand .Still do but now it's diamond .My earliest is an EZE-LAP rod which I still have but now it's worn to a very fine grit.
I also started out with typical carbon steels but now as a metallurgist I'm curious about new steels so I keep looking . I've known about and appreciated CPM since it came out about over 40 years ago !! Now my favorite is S35VN .My EDC tests are to carry a folder everyday for a year for whatever is needed. The CPMs are better with occasional touch-up rather than waiting till it's very dull. Microserrations are better for them I think.
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Yep, you can maintain steels like S30V and S35VN for a VERY long time doing light touch ups every now and then before the edge would need to be taken to a stone and refreshed...
 
I have found myself appreciating "mere mortal metals" for blades. Super steels are great for bragging rights, showpieces and as a benchmark of achievement for a maker who takes joy in working with metals that resist manipulation. But in many cases I find the edge retention benefits to be very minimal when compared to the frustration they provide when it comes time to sharpen them. To me it is pointless to have steel that may hold a shaving sharp edge for an extra week of hard use if you have to spend that week trying to get the edge back on it. I simply dont mind sharpening more often. Especially when that sharpening is actually enjoyable since the material isnt fighting you. Now if they ever come out with a steel that will live on like S110V or ZDP189 and sharpen as easy as 440C then I will be interested. Until then I would take 154CM or CPM154 any day all day.
 
PURPLEDC said:
I have found myself appreciating "mere mortal metals" for blades. Super steels are great for bragging rights, showpieces and as a benchmark of achievement for a maker who takes joy in working with metals that resist manipulation. But in many cases I find the edge retention benefits to be very minimal when compared to the frustration they provide when it comes time to sharpen them. To me it is pointless to have steel that may hold a shaving sharp edge for an extra week of hard use if you have to spend that week trying to get the edge back on it. I simply dont mind sharpening more often. Especially when that sharpening is actually enjoyable since the material isnt fighting you. Now if they ever come out with a steel that will live on like S110V or ZDP189 and sharpen as easy as 440C then I will be interested. Until then I would take 154CM or CPM154 any day all day.
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Steels like S110V are just as easy to sharpen as 440C, it's all technique and what one uses to sharpen with.

I can and do touch up steels like S110V in seconds on ceramics or a strop so it doesn't take anything fancy to maintain them.

Now yeah reprofiling the edge or repairing chips etc steels like S110V or S90V will take a lot longer to deal with than steels like 440C due to the increased wear resistance.

But for general touch ups I haven't noticed any difference in S110V and CPM 154 time or difficulty wise, or S90V and S30V for that matter....

What I have noticed however is that some of my cheap kitchen knives (Chicago Cutlery) take longer to touch up than the knives in S110V and S90V that I use in the kitchen.
 
As my sharpening skills and equipment progress, I find the most annoying thing to sharpen is a knife that I have to worry the burr back and forth repeatedly to get rid of it. That's when it seems I end up with a wire edge or take off a bit more steel than I intend to. I'm honestly not sure if it's a property of certain steels that do that, or just x steel with y heat treat and z edge angle.
 
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