knife store story

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bcutrufelli

Joined
Aug 21, 2003
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72
I was at a local mall today and went into the Chesapeake Knife and Tool store. These to guys were inside looking at knives and one was mentioning he needed a very strong folder. He kept going on about how he wanted the toughest steel exc. So guy#2 pulls out his Sebenza and said "this is the knife I carry and I would recomend it to you." Guy number one sais "no way it must be way stronger than that thing." Guy2 gets pretty darn upset and turns bright red. After a few min he is fuming mad. The other customer was basically calling his Sebenza a weak "junk knife." I really thaught these two guys were going to fight but the guy with the Sebebza stormed off.

This scene was very funny to me. The teenage boys behind the counter looked like deer in headlights. They had to be thnking what the hell do we do if a fight breaks out. I actually respect the guy with the Sebenza's ability to walk away. He was really mad but he walked away from the escolating situation.
 
I'm curious what this guy thought was better than a sebenza. I would've recommended the UC and Frost knives to him and convince him they can cut cinder block. Go waste your money bozo - HA!
 
I don't understand why the Sebenza owner got so angry. Obviously, the guy who insulted the Sebenza owner was very lacking in information relevant to the discussion. The customer with the Sebenza should have simply explained the errors in the other customer's beliefs. Why get so angry? This planet is chock full of self-proclaimed experts on everything who cannot wait to tell everybody how much they know about every subject. Why waste anger on these people?
 
I'm with Thirteenth Star on this one - the Sebenza owner's anger seems particularly irrational, unless the nay-sayer was a whole lot more rude than was described in the initial post. I know that it can be frustrating when ignorant know-it-alls blather their idiocy against all sound reason and truth. However, to get furiously steamed up over it is generally counterproductive and excessive. "For those who know, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't know, no explanation will ever suffice."
 
It has been widely discussed here on the forums that the creator of the Sebenza doesn't recommend continued "flick" openings. I think that says a little something. In other words, inherent strength isn't one of the selling factors of the Sebenza.
 
Harry Callahan said:
It has been widely discussed here on the forums that the creator of the Sebenza doesn't recommend continued "flick" openings. I think that says a little something. In other words, inherent strength isn't one of the selling factors of the Sebenza.
Click to expand...
That's a funny joke!!!

Chris Reeve doesn't like flicking because he feels it is useless and will lead to faster wear on *ANY* knife.

He's right.

Inherent strength is a major selling factor of th e Sebenza since it is a *VERY* strong knife. It is one of the knives most able to withstand flicking... if the detent wasn't so tight and the thumb stud wasn't shaped as pointy. Those are what keep the Sebenza from being flicked. It isn't designed to be flicked as Chris Reeve doesn't like flicking. But it is very strong and can take flicking as well as any other knife.

The Sebenza isn't as much of a brute as a Tripwire, SMF, or MPC, but it is one of the strongest folders on the planet.
 
I must disagree and no, I'm not joking. Reeve wasn't talking about "any" knife. He was specifically talking about repeatedly flicking a Sebenza open being considered "abuse". Check the archives, this has been beaten to death around here. Meanwhile, the Spyderco collector's book, an officially sanctioned publication of the company, actually explains (with pictures) how to do a "spyder drop" opening which can be considered EVEN MORE harsh than a simple "flick" opening. The president of the company reportedly demonstrates this skill at knife shows around the country if asked (and word is, he's pretty fast on the draw). The stop pin on my own Military has been rock solid thru countless spyderdrop openings.

So I'll say it again. Inherent strength isn't one of the main selling points behind the Sebenza. How can it be when the creator of the product considers flick openings to be "abuse"? Close tolerance engineering and nice machined graphics may be involved but brute strength doesn't stand out at the point of sale.
 
I don't need to check the archives, because I've seen it. You misunderstood. He never said that flicking a Sebenza is abuse because it cannot take it, but that other knives can take it. He considers flicking to be abuse. That says something about him, but not about the strength of his knives. If you had read the threads, maybe you would see that only you and Cliff draw such silly conclusions.

Inherent strength is one of the main selling points of the Sebenza, and it is one of the strongest folders. It isn't as much of a brute as certain other knives, but it is definitly a strong folder. One of the strongest (but not the strongest). Strength is a major selling point of the Sebenza, and it is stronger than most people will ever need.

Whether or not Chris Reeve considers flicking to be abuse does not change those facts.

If Strider said that flicking is abuse, does that mean the SMF isn't a strong knife anymore? Does Sal demonstrating an opening technique make Spyderco knives stronger? No and no. How strong a knife is depends on how strong the knife is, not what actions the creator considers to be abuse.

Your arguement doesn't hold water.
 
"any knife" is a strong statement, and incorrect also imho, darrel ralph says flick his all ya wanna, wont hurt them, BM axis lock, spyderco compression lock, wont hurt them either, nor many lockbacks and liner locks, so ya cant say its abuse to "any knife" imho. unless done compulsivly i dont think it would hurt a seb either, nor most well made/designed knives, imho.
 
You misunderstood and are wrong.

I never said flicking is abuse. I do not think it is.

But flicking a knife puts more stress on it than opening it gently. Every knife. Period. Will it hurt it? Well, it won't break it, but it does wear it more than opening it gently. That's an unavoidable fact.

Chris Reeve feels this constitutes abuse. That does not mean his knives are not strong.

Flicking a Sebenza open does not hurt it any more than flicking an Axis lock, Compression lock, liner lock, or DR knife does. But Chris Reeve feels that since flicking is uneeded and does increase wear (and it does- period- no matter how small), that it is abuse.

This doesn't mean the Sebenza can't take flicking. It can take it as well as any other knife, including Axis and Compression lock knives. The problem is that due to a very strong detent and a pointy thumbstud, Sebenza's are VERY hard to flick.
 
if DR says do it it wont hurt my stuff & i warranty for that it says something to me about the strength of his stuff, anyway.

sebs are ok, really a well made and F&Fed knife imho, i dont know that its any kind of extra heavy duty strong though, or any stronger than other frame locks are, but its certainly no weaker imho. its just not the first thing i think of when folks talk about being a really extra heavy duty knife, i think more like a strider AR or SnG then myself, but thats just me......
 
If you want to draw that conclusion, that is fine.

I just prefer to judge knives on their own merit, and not the claims and concerns of their creator. Anyone can say "flick my knife all you want- it can take it". I'm sure DR's knives are great, but they are great because they are great and not because he says it's okay to flick them. Likewise, someone feeling that needless additional wear is abuse does not mean their knife can't take it as well as the next knife. Chris Reeve's belief does not stem from his knives not being able to take flicking. He simply believes that flicking is abuse because it is uneeded and does technically increase wear on *ANY* knife, even if that extra wear is virtually nothing.

I agree that the Sebenza is not a super-heavy duty knife like an SMF or MPC. But it is a very strong folder and one of the stronger production folders. Strength is a selling point of the knife, but it is not a sharpened prypar. The Manix and SERE 2000 are not super heavy duty like an SMF either, but "they are very strong" is one of the most common reasons they are suggested to people.
 
maybe DR just has a lot more confidence in his designs, for whatever reason.

the fact that its uneeded, abuse, or it even technically increases wear on "any" knife are all very debatable subjects imho.
 
I don't think DR necesarily has more confidence. Chris Reeve has never said that his knives cannot take flicking. His stance on whether it is abuse or not is just different. "Flicking is abuse and I will not cover it" is not the same as "Flicking is too much for my knives to take". Chris Reeve may be VERY confident that his knives can take eons of constant flicking (and he should be, because they can). But that doesn't change his personal belief that flicking is abuse.

Whether or not flicking is abuse is a matter of opinion. Whether or not flicking increases wear or is needed are not up for debate.

Flicking a knife open puts more force upon it than opening it gently. Period. That means increased wear. Period. No matter how small.

Manual one-hand opening knives can be opened gently. Flicking them open is not needed. Period.

Because of those facts, Chris Reeve believes flicking is abuse. That says nothing about whether his knives can take it or not, nor does it mean he isn't confident that they can.

The Sebenza and Mnandi can't even be flicked open anyways. I think this says something about his personal stance on flicking. I don't think he didn't make the knives flickable because he thinks flicking will hurt them.

I want to point out again that I do not think flicking is abuse. I do flick my knives sometimes. But that is my belief. Chris Reeve disagrees. He may find flicking to be too flashy and he may be a bit of a traditionalist. I believe he has said that he isn't into assisted openers and switchblades. His personal beliefs are just personal beliefs. His knife views are different than mind. That don't mean his knives can't withstand flicking as well as an Axis lock knife.

The Sebenza is a very stout knife. Even if Chris Reeve said "don't use my knife to cut anything or open it- those things are abuse and I am scarred my knives will fall apart if ever used at all" that doesn't change the fact that the Sebenza is a stout knife. But he never said those things. He never even said the Sebenza can't take flicking as well as any other knife. He just said that he feels flicking is abuse. Don't read too much into it. He's probably just not into flashy opening.

Cold Steel says you can use their knives to cut the Earth in half. That doesn't mean it is true. They also say not to try it as it will void the warrenty, even though they say it will work. That doesn't mean it isn't true.
 
well, imho 'ol chris is wrong on this one, & sometimes i (and others ) dont have the time or inclination for "gently" opening the things, irregardless of chris's views on this.

if it hurts a seb even a little bit then a sebs not as strong as an axis as i think it matters not to the axis, not one little bit, compression lock included in that one too.
 
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