Knife vs Hatchet vs Saw

IMO saws have thier place in cutting larger firewood and rough lumber such as a bow or crosscut saw which cut on the push and pull; a carpenter saw for fine work and ripping which generally cut on the push excels there. Other than that, I think saws are a good choice after dark vs. a hatchet or axe purely for safety.

But for general woods use, IMO, you can't beat the axe for its multi-use and durability. By the way, I would call the Estwing in your review a hachet as it is a one handed tool versus the two handed axe in which productivity increases exponentially. Also, the smaller the axe or hatchet, the more dangerous it is, so an axe would have rated safer in your test.

Nice review and good discussion.
 
R0020882.JPG

This one belongs to a buddy of mine, worked great in Irori life (so-called indoor camping :D ).
 
Nice tests.
I regularly read the "saws can only saw... you can't carve with a saw"
But honestly, who goes out with a saw but no knife?

I think chopping stuff is fun, but if I've been walking all day and just want to get a fire going, sawing helps me do that a lot quicker.
 
You should throw a machete or two into the mix and see how they compare. I've cut through 2x4's in 4-5 swings with my 22" ontario machete, and regularly cut through 2-3 inch green limbs with a single swing. Mine isn't even particularly sharp, I give it a "working" edge of about 30 degrees per side using a cheap file. I couldn't imagine a 2x4 taking more than 20 seconds and a handful of swings with a good machete provided you use the proper technique and let the blade do the work.
 
For building a shelter, IMO the real tool that is left out of the mix here is a real Axe. Hatchet's in my opinion are very dangerous, as it is difficult even when seated to get your body out of the way in case of a misplace glancing chop that comes back at you.

I don't think anyone believe a knife is the best shelter building or wood chopping tool. It just happens to be the strongest, and the most multipurpose one, that is easy to pack in case of an emergency.

Can you baton and split wood with a knife in an emergency? Yes. But otherwise, you are foolish not to bring a better solution.


-Freq
 
Hubby likes the ARS saw, 10 inch blade, plus sheath. If we think we will need an axe, we take his Hudson Bay. We just use the saw more.
 
I wonder how the results would be different if you had picked sizes that could be cut in one swing with the Trailmaster or hatchet. In these cases, it seems the saw would be slower and require more energy, though still have an advantage in precision. I can also see this as the area where a large chopping knife would be ahead of either. Depending on skill and familiarity, the hatchet could pull ahead though. Are there any saw-spined knives out there that work?

Not having practiced any wood lore in many years, I can see changing technique to fit the tools you have as an option. If you only have a knife, saw, or axe, someone with more skill than me could probably get each to work fine.
 
I've had my Silky Super Accel 210 for going on three years now. In that time it's been pretty much my only real wood processing tool for camping and hiking in all seasons. I would estimate that it's cut around 2 cords of stove length firewood. Hard wood, wet wood, dry wood, dirty wood. It is still just as sharp as it came from the factory and I'm very finicky about sharpness.

I've only had two mishaps with it and both times were because I was cutting an 8 - 9 inch diameter round of wood with an 8 1/4 inch saw. One time the tip snapped off. No big deal, doesn't have an effect on its sawing ability. And another time I bent the first few inches of the blade, which did have a big effect on cutting efficiency. It was easily bent back in the field. The blade itself is soft and tough while the teeth are extremely hard.

Great tool and weighs about as much as a Busse Game Warden.
 
Saws are a LOT faster and easier to use, no doubt about it. They are also single purpose tools, so I carry a light folding saw, not a big bulky one, when I'm hiking. It's the Kershaw one, which is re-branded from another maker, but it works well.

That said, I also agree that I'm not going to be working with wood much thicker than my wrist in the woods. I can chop through that in a dozen cuts or less with many of my larger knives.

I've never warmed up to small axes/hatchets. I've always found them wanting, and also too single purpose. I know there are people who can butcher game with them, but I can't, and I'm not interested in learning. No offense to those who like them, they're just not for me.

One thing that I've done with a large knife that really came in handy was making a walking stick out of a large dead tree limb. It was easy to hold the limb vertical and use the knife to chop off the small branches in about 3 minutes, very easy.

So I guess I prefer the larger knife (and I'm getting older also), but always have that folding saw as a safety net.
 
I also have done a lot of carpentry in my life. A saw excels at cross cutting, which is why I carry a saw when in the woods. That is also what I use at home to cut wood to length for the wood stove. For safety, I use a froe to split wood for the wood stove or when camping. A froe is an old carpenters tool, but it excells at splitting. It is much safer than an axe, and wood doesn't fly around. Both the froe and saw were used for centuries to efficiently shape wood, before the advent of power tools. I don't carry a froe in the field, but people should consider it for home and camping.

Spud
 
I love my 18 inch Sawvivor but I wouldn't use a pic of it as my desktop wallpaper (if you know what I mean).
 
Hey Guys,

I love saws. For making firewood and shelters they are fast. I have a GB SFA, 4” Charles May knife and this saw in my families survival pack

http://karlkuemmerling.com/store/product772.html

I weighed the saw and its only 21 ounces for a heavy use saw with a 24” blade.

With these 3 tools weighing only a total of 3.67 pounds I have all I need and the saw make everything easy and I would use way less calories using the saw where ever I can.

Thanks.

Geoff
 
Let me state right from the word go, I'm lazy :thumbup:

When I'm looking to break up wood for the fire, I'm not particularily interested in how neat the end of the wood is (maybe I'm a slob as well as lazy :D)

Unless you are breaking up firewood thicker than your forearm, or don't have access to a forked tree, why would anyone bother using any of the tools listed (unless it's for the fun factor or feeling the need to justify a purchase :D ).

IMO, the single most effective & calorie efficient way of breaking up wood (up to forearm size) is to use the leverage you can generate with the fork of a tree.

[youtube]XQEgOwpDXhI[/youtube]

How long do you reckon it would take to saw or chop the limb shown in the video?

If it doesn't readily yield to this technique, is there really anything wrong with feeding the log onto the fire as it burns?

Nochoppingneeded.jpg



Don't get me wrong, I really do appreciate the value of a good saw, axe/hatchet and knife. But in my experience there are times when there is a better alternative to all of them :eek:

Now before the usual response of "after all this is a knife forum" kicks in, let me point out that whilst the mother site is a knife forum, this is the "wilderness & survival skills subforum" and IMO the focus should also include knowledge & skills & not just tools :eek:




Kind regards
Mick :D
 
I love me some big choppers, but if I'm going on a long hike I'll have a folding 8" Silky Saw with me. Or a pocket chainsaw. Conservation of energy!
 
I completely disagree with you Mick:eek: I get my son to saw up several rounds of firewood and he sleeps great all night:D

I honestly like my Silky or Kershaw folding saws, not so much for firewood, but other tasks. Getting a good flush cut, trap triggers and even cutting down a sappling in a very over-grown area where it's too hard to swing a big blade or axe (of course, you can use a small blade effectively by bending the sappling). For my son, I like the saw from a safety perspective...and he enjoys using the saw as much as a big blade. Saws have their place and can be a useful addition to you kit but only secondary to a good fixed blade.

ROCK6
 
your test confirms my own observations.

I take a Sierra folding saw, a Wetterlings 13 in ax and a good knife.

Each is a better tool then the others for certain tasks.
 
SouthernCross said:
Let me state right from the word go, I'm lazy :thumbup:

When I'm looking to break up wood for the fire, I'm not particularily interested in how neat the end of the wood is (maybe I'm a slob as well as lazy :D)

Unless you are breaking up firewood thicker than your forearm, or don't have access to a forked tree, why would anyone bother using any of the tools listed (unless it's for the fun factor or feeling the need to justify a purchase :D ).

IMO, the single most effective & calorie efficient way of breaking up wood (up to forearm size) is to use the leverage you can generate with the fork of a tree.

[youtube]XQEgOwpDXhI[/youtube]

How long do you reckon it would take to saw or chop the limb shown in the video?

If it doesn't readily yield to this technique, is there really anything wrong with feeding the log onto the fire as it burns?

Nochoppingneeded.jpg



Don't get me wrong, I really do appreciate the value of a good saw, axe/hatchet and knife. But in my experience there are times when there is a better alternative to all of them :eek:

Now before the usual response of "after all this is a knife forum" kicks in, let me point out that whilst the mother site is a knife forum, this is the "wilderness & survival skills subforum" and IMO the focus should also include knowledge & skills & not just tools :eek:




Kind regards
Mick :D
Click to expand...

Mick, hey

To compare notes then:

I'll admit to doing lazy too. In fact I'm so lazy I only bother with any kind of fire once every nth trip. I just don't need the heat or the light from one. I do have them if I'm trying to put a specific slant on a trip for some reason but mostly I think they're for staring gormlessly at and adding ambience. Usually I figure the woods have sufficient atmosphere all on there own that it doesn't require me to come along and set fire to something to artificially improve it.

Whilst I get what you are saying about using the forked tree or just plain old putting my boot through a stick often I'm in woodland that isn't readily accommodating to either because it is evergreen or beech with forks high up. On top of that I'd rather a very precise small controlled fire than a big scruffy affair because I enjoy the discipline of it. A small personal highly controlled fire that would fit a space a couple of feet across at the very most is synergistic with my approach to the outdoors. I don't have a tatty camp, or lose stuff, or festoon stuff around the trees and all that. I like to keep my stuff tight if I can.

Then there's the principle of leading by example. Whilst your method is good, and a star fire is a perfectly valid technique that I'd likely use in an emergency, I avoid it because it is the closest to the ones I hate. The “just burn through it” is the starting point of many a lout that shows up in the woods without the appropriate kit but with plenty of beer. A good example of that is parts of Scotland. Scotland is well known for its very relaxed attitude to pitch up where you like compared to England but even there times are changing. Parts have become off limits to camping simply because off the great big fire scars and fizzy drink rubbish people are leaving. Damned either way. Either some agency will come along and put up one of those hideous bench table and plank chairs that one sees in village parks along with a fire pit and dogshit bin or they just prohibit overnight staying there altogether. Car campers should expect to put up with that after all there's only so far they're willing to carry the beer cooler, but when it starts to spread out into the pretty places something is going wrong. On that, although I find merit in your methods, and I don't believe this applies to you, I believe the type of fire you have there is exactly the kind of thing that paves the way for those people to express their inner louts. Conceptually, I want as much distance from me and those people as possible. Bit like cutting out a cancer I have to sacrifice a bit of good tissue. Accordingly, apart from an emergency I want the right tools and I'm willing to make the effort to keep my fire and fuel sock as compact and as tidy a I can have it. To do that I use the tools.
 
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