Knife you could rely on for survival

Gaston444 said:
Utter nonsense for choppers, but hey, lug all that hand-impacting out of balance chopping weight if you want. Randall has never gone that route on big choppers for a reason. Big chopping knives do not have to be made of thin vibrating stock, while still fairly handle-heavy... The BK-9's 3/16" stock vibrated in my hand like there's no tomorrow, making any large task daunting, and one Youtuber observed, of the Esee Junglass, that the balance point made it feel "like it was designed on a computer", which of course it likely was... (see 9:18):


The huge 10.5" Junglass balances a pitiful 1/4" to 1/2" into the blade: Even my $39 Master Cutlery Rambo clone, at 10" and with a much pointier blade, balances in at over 3/4": The cheap Rambo clone is a better chopper than my Bk-9, although maybe not better than the 1" longer and much heavier Esee: 22.5" ounces vs only 17 ounces for the Master Cutlery does count: A pretty big 5.5 ounces... For maybe slightly better steel, find an older United Cutlery in supposedly similar 420: I rate those as more finely made and less chippy than the original D-2 Liles...

And yes, as long as the tube handle attachment method holds, short hollow handle tangs are less prone to breakage than long rat tails (for the obvious reason that a short piece is harder for vibrations to break than a long one)... The "Wiggy's Wilderness" video posted higher up this page shows clearly the tang is quite massive, and also quite intact, and that's a for $19 knife: A preventive dab of G-flex before the pin gave out, maybe even after, and that $19 knife probably would have held on forever, while also being impervious to rust...

With resin-epoxy attached tangs, like all the cheap United Cutlery Rambo clones, and many Randall rat tails and half tangs, the worst that ever happens is a slight guard rattle, easily cured with a fillet of crazy glue. I had a Randall Model 12 that shed its guard silver soldering after 1000 chops, leading to guard rattle, and a running of thin crazy glue around the guard cured it for the next 2000 chops, basically forever.

And yes, many Randalls hold on solely through a tiny dab of resin glue around a short stubby 3/4" tang, not even getting the mechanical hold of a lined lanyard hole: The full Micarta handle Clinton daggers for instance. Same for all the Gerber Mark IIs and Guardians ever made. I'm sure Randall and Vietnam vets didn't have a clue what they were doing.

Gaston
Click to expand...

Of all your chopping tests I was most swayed by your evaluation of that Al Mar folder. Keep up the good fight, G. :thumbsup:
 
Gaston444 said:
Utter nonsense for choppers, but hey, lug all that hand-impacting out of balance chopping weight if you want. Randall has never gone that route on big choppers for a reason. Big chopping knives do not have to be made of thin vibrating stock, while still fairly handle-heavy... The BK-9's 3/16" stock vibrated in my hand like there's no tomorrow, making any large task daunting, and one Youtuber observed, of the Esee Junglass, that the balance point made it feel "like it was designed on a computer", which of course it likely was... (see 9:18):


The huge 10.5" Junglass balances a pitiful 1/4" to 1/2" into the blade: Even my $39 Master Cutlery Rambo clone, at 10" and with a much pointier blade, balances in at over 3/4": The cheap Rambo clone is a better chopper than my Bk-9, although maybe not better than the 1" longer and much heavier Esee: 22.5" ounces vs only 17 ounces for the Master Cutlery does count: A pretty big 5.5 ounces... For maybe slightly better steel, find an older United Cutlery in supposedly similar 420: I rate those as more finely made and less chippy than the original D-2 Liles...

And yes, as long as the tube handle attachment method holds, short hollow handle tangs are less prone to breakage than long rat tails (for the obvious reason that a short piece is harder for vibrations to break than a long one)... The "Wiggy's Wilderness" video posted higher up this page shows clearly the tang is quite massive, and also quite intact, and that's a for $19 knife: A preventive dab of G-flex before the pin gave out, maybe even after, and that $19 knife probably would have held on forever, while also being impervious to rust...

With resin-epoxy attached tangs, like all the cheap United Cutlery Rambo clones, and many Randall rat tails and half tangs, the worst that ever happens is a slight guard rattle, easily cured with a fillet of crazy glue. I had a Randall Model 12 that shed its guard silver soldering after 1000 chops, leading to guard rattle, and a running of thin crazy glue around the guard cured it for the next 2000 chops, basically forever.

And yes, many Randalls hold on solely through a tiny dab of resin glue around a short stubby 3/4" tang, not even getting the mechanical hold of a lined lanyard hole: The full Micarta handle Clinton daggers for instance. Same for all the Gerber Mark IIs and Guardians ever made. I'm sure Randall and Vietnam vets didn't have a clue what they were doing.

Gaston
Click to expand...
For any new and unsuspecting members, please do not believe everything you read.

I would unpick this post point by point, but past history has proved this to be an exercise in futility. I will only say that it is mostly gibberish.
 
While I’m admittedly from the old Ron Hood School of big knives, if we’re talking a well-planned kit, I would likely go with a smaller knife only because they’re easier to carry on you all the time. My top two choices both reflect my mindset for survival…CHEAT!

Habilus Bush Tool with some sheath modifications and the addition of a small BRKT PSK knife:







Martin Knives Bushcraft-Tactical with a bird and trout blade.





Both have a sharpener and a firesteel (that also contains a little tinder). Unless you’re in colder climes or you’re practicing some serious primitive tasks for shelter, a larger chopper is over-rated and excess weight “if” your other gear is planned properly. While they’re less efficient, I can still build a shelter with a smaller belt knife and once a fire is going, I can burn through logs that simply burn to many calories to chop through. I do a lot of distance backpacking and I honestly pack too much steel…the smallest Mora #2/0, Spyderco Dragonfly, and a Leatherman PST mini multitool. There are two schools of thought…set up a base camp or travel from A to B. A smaller fixed blade gives you much better mobility options if you’re actually backpacking and not chopping wood in a base camp. So, as much as I love my large choppers, I need a fixed blade I can integrate into my pack suspension system for traveling, and it’s still able to remain on my body whether I ditch my pack or not. This is where your sheath system is as important as your blade.

Ideally, I would pair this with a Silky folding saw and of course a SAK/multitiool and pocket folder...

ROCK6
 
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Gaston444 said:
Utter nonsense for choppers, but hey, lug all that hand-impacting out of balance chopping weight if you want. Randall has never gone that route on big choppers for a reason. Big chopping knives do not have to be made of thin vibrating stock, while still fairly handle-heavy... The BK-9's 3/16" stock vibrated in my hand like there's no tomorrow, making any large task daunting, and one Youtuber observed, of the Esee Junglass, that the balance point made it feel "like it was designed on a computer", which of course it likely was... (see 9:18):


The huge 10.5" Junglass balances a pitiful 1/4" to 1/2" into the blade: Even my $39 Master Cutlery Rambo clone, at 10" and with a much pointier blade, balances in at over 3/4": The cheap Rambo clone is a better chopper than my Bk-9, although maybe not better than the 1" longer and much heavier Esee: 22.5" ounces vs only 17 ounces for the Master Cutlery does count: A pretty big 5.5 ounces... For maybe slightly better steel, find an older United Cutlery in supposedly similar 420: I rate those as more finely made and less chippy than the original D-2 Liles...

And yes, as long as the tube handle attachment method holds, short hollow handle tangs are less prone to breakage than long rat tails (for the obvious reason that a short piece is harder for vibrations to break than a long one)... The "Wiggy's Wilderness" video posted higher up this page shows clearly the tang is quite massive, and also quite intact, and that's a for $19 knife: A preventive dab of G-flex before the pin gave out, maybe even after, and that $19 knife probably would have held on forever, while also being impervious to rust...

With resin-epoxy attached tangs, like all the cheap United Cutlery Rambo clones, and many Randall rat tails and half tangs, the worst that ever happens is a slight guard rattle, easily cured with a fillet of crazy glue. I had a Randall Model 12 that shed its guard silver soldering after 1000 chops, leading to guard rattle, and a running of thin crazy glue around the guard cured it for the next 2000 chops, basically forever.

And yes, many Randalls hold on solely through a tiny dab of resin glue around a short stubby 3/4" tang, not even getting the mechanical hold of a lined lanyard hole: The full Micarta handle Clinton daggers for instance. Same for all the Gerber Mark IIs and Guardians ever made. I'm sure Randall and Vietnam vets didn't have a clue what they were doing.

Gaston
Click to expand...

I can't honestly say i understood half of that but thanks for your time :oops:
 
DracoKrys said:
I can't honestly say i understood half of that but thanks for your time :oops:
Click to expand...

Don't even try.
He doesn't actually really use knives, and has admitted as much in the past.
This explains the nonsensical nature of his observations about knives.

Those of us who actually use knives end up having opinions that do not match his at all.
Weird! :D
 
Gaston444 said:
Utter nonsense for choppers, but hey, lug all that hand-impacting out of balance chopping weight if you want. Randall has never gone that route on big choppers for a reason. Big chopping knives do not have to be made of thin vibrating stock, while still fairly handle-heavy... The BK-9's 3/16" stock vibrated in my hand like there's no tomorrow, making any large task daunting, and one Youtuber observed, of the Esee Junglass, that the balance point made it feel "like it was designed on a computer", which of course it likely was... (see 9:18):


The huge 10.5" Junglass balances a pitiful 1/4" to 1/2" into the blade: Even my $39 Master Cutlery Rambo clone, at 10" and with a much pointier blade, balances in at over 3/4": The cheap Rambo clone is a better chopper than my Bk-9, although maybe not better than the 1" longer and much heavier Esee: 22.5" ounces vs only 17 ounces for the Master Cutlery does count: A pretty big 5.5 ounces... For maybe slightly better steel, find an older United Cutlery in supposedly similar 420: I rate those as more finely made and less chippy than the original D-2 Liles...

And yes, as long as the tube handle attachment method holds, short hollow handle tangs are less prone to breakage than long rat tails (for the obvious reason that a short piece is harder for vibrations to break than a long one)... The "Wiggy's Wilderness" video posted higher up this page shows clearly the tang is quite massive, and also quite intact, and that's a for $19 knife: A preventive dab of G-flex before the pin gave out, maybe even after, and that $19 knife probably would have held on forever, while also being impervious to rust...

With resin-epoxy attached tangs, like all the cheap United Cutlery Rambo clones, and many Randall rat tails and half tangs, the worst that ever happens is a slight guard rattle, easily cured with a fillet of crazy glue. I had a Randall Model 12 that shed its guard silver soldering after 1000 chops, leading to guard rattle, and a running of thin crazy glue around the guard cured it for the next 2000 chops, basically forever.

And yes, many Randalls hold on solely through a tiny dab of resin glue around a short stubby 3/4" tang, not even getting the mechanical hold of a lined lanyard hole: The full Micarta handle Clinton daggers for instance. Same for all the Gerber Mark IIs and Guardians ever made. I'm sure Randall and Vietnam vets didn't have a clue what they were doing.

Gaston
Click to expand...

And once again, this is stated as a biased opinion, not fact....
 
ROCK6 said:
While I’m admittedly from the old Ron Hood School of big knives, if we’re talking a well-planned kit, I would likely go with a smaller knife only because they’re easier to carry on you all the time. My top two choices both reflect my mindset for survival…CHEAT!

Habilus Bush Tool with some sheath modifications and the addition of a small BRKT PSK knife:







Martin Knives Bushcraft-Tactical with a bird and trout blade.





Both have a sharpener and a firesteel (that also contains a little tinder). Unless you’re in colder climes or you’re practicing some serious primitive tasks for shelter, a larger chopper is over-rated and excess weight “if” your other gear is planned properly. While they’re less efficient, I can still build a shelter with a smaller belt knife and once a fire is going, I can burn through logs that simply burn to many calories to chop through. I do a lot of distance backpacking and I honestly pack too much steel…the smallest Mora #2/0, Spyderco Dragonfly, and a Leatherman PST mini multitool. There are two schools of thought…set up a base camp or travel from A to B. A smaller fixed blade gives you much better mobility options if you’re actually backpacking and not chopping wood in a base camp. So, as much as I love my large choppers, I need a fixed blade I can integrate into my pack suspension system for traveling, and it’s still able to remain on my body whether I ditch my pack or not. This is where your sheath system is as important as your blade.

Ideally, I would pair this with a Silky folding saw and of course a SAK/multitiool and pocket folder...

ROCK6
Click to expand...
Nice kits! Have given me some ideas as to where I want to go with mine... Thx :D
 
DracoKrys said:
I can't honestly say i understood half of that but thanks for your time :oops:
Click to expand...

Gaston is fairly well known on the forum for having some... unorthodox o_O ideas about knives and blade steel that don't seem to really be shared by the other members (including longtime, respected knife makers) that he presents, without evidence, in a wall of text liberally sprinkled with gibberish in order to sound "sciencey". The fact that you couldn't make sense of it just means you might know something about knives.

As far as a knife you can trust in a survival situation, I say a used one. The only way to really know is to take your favorite candidates out and practice the skills you might need in such a situation with your specific knife. A design that suits your taste combined with a manufacturer's reputation for excellent steel/heat treatment can help select candidates, but an undetectable flaw in the steel is a possibility from even the best makers. Pick what suits your taste and skill set and then make it prove itself. Then trust it afterwards.
 
I would have to say the one I had on me when I was stranded.

If I had a chance to plan before I would Say an ESEE 6 or Junglas just for the sole fact ESEE's warranty is so good. Break the knife while you're stranded, just mail it to them and they'll send you replacement.
 
DracoKrys said:
I can't honestly say i understood half of that but thanks for your time :oops:
Click to expand...
It's simple, the cheap hollow handle knifes are the most superior knifes because the combination of the mystery steel and the hollow handle vibrate at a specific frequency that cause wood molecules to separate while batoning with a rock.
This means the actual edge of the blade is never in danger of contacting a hard surface and developing the dreaded wobbly apex.

If you make the foolish mistake of using a cpm steel the vibrations of rock batoning loosen the steel particles and the knife disintegrates due to the lack of molecular stability.
Thanks @Gaston444 for informing us all of the danger of cpm steels.
:rolleyes:
 
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jimmyd1982 said:
It's simple, the cheap hollow handle knifes are the most superior knifes because the combination of the mystery steel and the hollow handle vibrate at a specific frequency that cause wood molecules to separate while batoning with a rock.
This means the actual edge of the blade is never in danger of contacting a hard surface and developing the dreaded wobbly apex.

If you make the foolish mistake of using a cpm steel the vibrations of rock batoning loosen the steel particles and the knife disintegrates due to the lack of molecular stability.
Thanks @Gaston444 for informing us all of the danger of cpm steels.
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Everything makes sense to me now, thanks! :D
 
My choice for a fixed blade would be the DPx HEFT 6 Woodsman.

Folder would be Benchmade’s Adamas.

Tough to chose since there are some many great fixed blade survival knives available on the market.
 
Gaston444 said:
Utter nonsense for choppers, but hey, lug all that hand-impacting out of balance chopping weight if you want. Randall has never gone that route on big choppers for a reason. Big chopping knives do not have to be made of thin vibrating stock, while still fairly handle-heavy... The BK-9's 3/16" stock vibrated in my hand like there's no tomorrow, making any large task daunting, and one Youtuber observed, of the Esee Junglass, that the balance point made it feel "like it was designed on a computer", which of course it likely was... (see 9:18):


The huge 10.5" Junglass balances a pitiful 1/4" to 1/2" into the blade: Even my $39 Master Cutlery Rambo clone, at 10" and with a much pointier blade, balances in at over 3/4": The cheap Rambo clone is a better chopper than my Bk-9, although maybe not better than the 1" longer and much heavier Esee: 22.5" ounces vs only 17 ounces for the Master Cutlery does count: A pretty big 5.5 ounces... For maybe slightly better steel, find an older United Cutlery in supposedly similar 420: I rate those as more finely made and less chippy than the original D-2 Liles...

And yes, as long as the tube handle attachment method holds, short hollow handle tangs are less prone to breakage than long rat tails (for the obvious reason that a short piece is harder for vibrations to break than a long one)... The "Wiggy's Wilderness" video posted higher up this page shows clearly the tang is quite massive, and also quite intact, and that's a for $19 knife: A preventive dab of G-flex before the pin gave out, maybe even after, and that $19 knife probably would have held on forever, while also being impervious to rust...

With resin-epoxy attached tangs, like all the cheap United Cutlery Rambo clones, and many Randall rat tails and half tangs, the worst that ever happens is a slight guard rattle, easily cured with a fillet of crazy glue. I had a Randall Model 12 that shed its guard silver soldering after 1000 chops, leading to guard rattle, and a running of thin crazy glue around the guard cured it for the next 2000 chops, basically forever.

And yes, many Randalls hold on solely through a tiny dab of resin glue around a short stubby 3/4" tang, not even getting the mechanical hold of a lined lanyard hole: The full Micarta handle Clinton daggers for instance. Same for all the Gerber Mark IIs and Guardians ever made. I'm sure Randall and Vietnam vets didn't have a clue what they were doing.

Gaston
Click to expand...
And there is no place for survival sleeping pills in that Junglas. Pitiful!

So much fail in the above post. "if the handle holds" LOL.
 
Or these:

hDs46wD.jpg
 
Most likely my custom made kailash blades scourge kukri it' 13 inch made of 5160 high carbon steel and gets the job done! From self defense to woodwork!
 
BladeScout said:
Not sure a couple of lone Saami looking for a stray herd in a howling blizzad a hundred years ago in a desolate border region would agree with that statement.

Leuko or not.
;)
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Though I will contend that their point of "Sven, we might be in a bother" is so far past where most of us would be either hunting for the PLB button, or already dead, that even though in general life was certainly harder, they probably didn't have a "now we are surviving" mindset, more of a "well, I guess today is another day" and if those knives were good enough then, what's changed?
 
Pilsner said:
For any new and unsuspecting members, please do not believe everything you read.

I would unpick this post point by point, but past history has proved this to be an exercise in futility. I will only say that it is mostly gibberish.
Click to expand...

Any knife held improperly while batoning will cause painful vibrations. Even in a knife designed for such hard use. As will infections caused by cutting oneself. I can attest to both facts from experience. Hopefully your kit is designed for the location you choose as well as for your experience with said tools. Those more comfortable with a sak and and axe should not take a large knife just because someone recommended it. Those more comfortable with a large “bowie” should not take off with just an axe and a sak.
In some areas survival is as easy as dealing with simple boredom, in others its as much luck as it is how much suffering one is able to withstand. Finding small animals to eat can be difficult in some seasons. Digging for insects, roots, and mushrooms might be a requirement. Hoarding water might be more important in others.
 
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