Knife you could rely on for survival

Higgs Particle steel said:
..... But what Im getting at is are you going to spend a lot of time maintaining the knife in the event that weather turns? What about rain? What about humidity before and after rain? What about snow? What if my clumsy ass falls into a stream or I drop my knife into the snow or on muddy ground?
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The condition/scenarios you line up, are pretty much what ESEE specializes in.

IIRC they had/have tropical jungle seminars/South American survival courses.

You should see some of the ESEE knives, which pass these courses with flying colors.

We have a tendency to 'buy into' modern steels and they are just fine but we tend to forget, that carbon steel has worked very well for a long time and has advantages to boot.

These last few weeks, Ive been camping with the hammock.

I brought a couple of knives (two is one, one is none). A knife, which not only during the last few weeks have seen some hard use, is the affordable Terävä carbon steel Puukko 110.

You mentioned snow; this has been working and been left in snow and icy conditions both day and night when camping.
Only 'maintenance' has been the knife being wiped on a pants leg or sleeve.

There are alternatives but this tool worked just fine.

I have other knives in more modern steels but I would in no way feel 'undergunned' with this carbon steel knife in the conditions you line up - quite the contrary.

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Another carbon steel knife escaping the elements relatively unscathed;

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Also have used the non-stainless steel Mule MicroMelt quite a bit this winter. No rust spots.

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Higgs Particle steel said:
Yes I know all that but the statements you made are not congruent with my thoughts which in your defense I didnt elaborate on at all.

If you were going to limit yourself to one knife and go out into the wilderness for a long period of time IMO something 4-5 inches made out of a modern stainless like CPM S35VN or Bohler Elmax would definitely be among the best choices. Are you going to bring oil, sand paper, WD40, scotchbrite, and wipe your knife down after every use. Its not unreasonable to do so I guess but... But what Im getting at is are you going to spend a lot of time maintaining the knife in the event that weather turns? What about rain? What about humidity before and after rain? What about snow? What if my clumsy ass falls into a stream or I drop my knife into the snow or on muddy ground? I go trekking and know what to bring, a knife is actually a necessity but Im going to make sure I have a ton of other stuff as well, folding saw, multiple methods to make fire, first aid, water filtration, waterproof everything, trash bags for dirty clothes, a SPORK, a suitable cup / plate, camp suds, Nalgenes, etc, etc

These are variables I was thinking about not just bashing knives I really dig and own like the BK2 and Esee 5. Corrosion resistance is important. What if your knife does develop rust and since you only have one you gotta use it for cutting foods. Maybe I put too much thought into the question. I dont live in the woods but I grew up loving the outdoors and outdoor activities and I have a lot of experience with that type of stuff aside from living in a rainforest tribe, being in a downed pilot situation, or falling out of my bed into the Rocky Mountains.

The reason the Fallkniven F1 and others are VG10 is because of corrosion resistance everything about it is for surviving in a downed pilot situation wearing gloves (rubber handle) up in the arctic circle.

I hope these thoughts make more sense than my post that you quoted, which was kind of rhetorical but whatever its in the past.
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You've got to be kidding me...

In a survival situation a little rust on your knife is the least of your worries. Esees are specifically designed and tested to function (not just look pretty and rust free) in some of the most damp and humid environments on this planet. They don't explode when they get wet. Becker makes most of their knives out of carbon steel and they seem to not disintegrate when wet either.
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
Yes I know all that but the statements you made are not congruent with my thoughts which in your defense I didnt elaborate on at all.

If you were going to limit yourself to one knife and go out into the wilderness for a long period of time IMO something 4-5 inches made out of a modern stainless like CPM S35VN or Bohler Elmax would definitely be among the best choices. Are you going to bring oil, sand paper, WD40, scotchbrite, and wipe your knife down after every use. Its not unreasonable to do so I guess but... But what Im getting at is are you going to spend a lot of time maintaining the knife in the event that weather turns? What about rain? What about humidity before and after rain? What about snow? What if my clumsy ass falls into a stream or I drop my knife into the snow or on muddy ground? I go trekking and know what to bring, a knife is actually a necessity but Im going to make sure I have a ton of other stuff as well, folding saw, multiple methods to make fire, first aid, water filtration, waterproof everything, trash bags for dirty clothes, a SPORK, a suitable cup / plate, camp suds, Nalgenes, etc, etc

These are variables I was thinking about not just bashing knives I really dig and own like the BK2 and Esee 5. Corrosion resistance is important. What if your knife does develop rust and since you only have one you gotta use it for cutting foods. Maybe I put too much thought into the question. I dont live in the woods but I grew up loving the outdoors and outdoor activities and I have a lot of experience with that type of stuff aside from living in a rainforest tribe, being in a downed pilot situation, or falling out of my bed into the Rocky Mountains.

The reason the Fallkniven F1 and others are VG10 is because of corrosion resistance everything about it is for surviving in a downed pilot situation wearing gloves (rubber handle) up in the arctic circle.

I hope these thoughts make more sense than my post that you quoted, which was kind of rhetorical but whatever its in the past.

Aside from all that heres a rust test inside at Blade HQ. We lack humidity in this so its just water on a knife. With tap water only the 1095 which is uncoated probably a GEC rusted. This test is kind of screwy because its a three day period.


Here is a rust test in a humid environment with A2 vs 3V. Its humid and rainy. This is unlike a rust test inside a shop like the Blade HQ test.


Then this gentleman loves his edge retention tests.

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My go to fixed blade for the woods is made of 01 and I've used it in all kinds of weather. You'd be amazed what a patina and a little common sense can do to prevent problems with rust.
 
So actually using ones carbon steel knives in the winter time nor during summer isnt a testament to their worth - got ya.

A SERE school course would not prove the worth of a knife, because you have an inkling, that the SERE school course might - might - eventually end at some distant point in the future - got ya.

An ESEE South American Survival Course in the jungle wont show the worth of a carbon steel knife because, as we know, there are tribes living in jungles - got ya.

Military knives cant be carbon steel ... because military - got ya.

"If you knew you were about to spend a long time in the wilderness in any environment, what knife would knife would you choose to bring with you, and why?"

I already told you: Carbon steel version of Teräva Puukko 110 would be one possible knife.

Why? Because it WORKS.

What do you use your knives for, please?
 
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Higgs Particle steel said:
Taking pictures of your knife in snow with your hammock isnt survival. Im not talking about SERE school (which you know ends) or living in a rain forest (where at the very least you are in a tribe) or on a military operation (where you are with a team). Im talking about surviving by yourself for an extended period of time away from electricity. I plan for the worst case scenario.

Its an opinion related to this: "If you knew you were about to spend a long time in the wilderness in any environment, what knife would knife would you choose to bring with you, and why?"

Our opinions apparently differ based on our thoughts and experiences. Isnt that the point of forums?
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Oh... so basically a fantasy scenario where the world has ended, and oil, sandpaper, other knives, etc. have all magically disappeared.... Okay well in that case I'll bring a knife made out of adamantium so I never have to worry about sharpening it.
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
Taking pictures of your knife in snow with your hammock isnt survival. Im not talking about SERE school (which you know ends) or living in a rain forest (where at the very least you are in a tribe) or on a military operation (where you are with a team). Im talking about surviving by yourself for an extended period of time away from electricity. I plan for the worst case scenario.

Its an opinion related to this: "If you knew you were about to spend a long time in the wilderness in any environment, what knife would knife would you choose to bring with you, and why?"

Our opinions apparently differ based on our thoughts and experiences. Isnt that the point of forums?
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Pro tip. What keeps rust of carbon knives is use. Keep using your carbon knife in that survival situation and it won't poof into an orange cloud.

It's kinda how knives worked for a long time before that dude accidentally discovered Stain Less steels.
 
Person 1:

"Carbon steel knives dont work.

Forget about untold past generations having had only carbon steel knives and how they built nations using carbon steel.

I dont have any actual experience using carbon steel knives for years and years in inclement weather but I do have opinions.

Carbon steel knives dont work because you have to bring oil, sand paper, WD40, SchotchBrite and wipe your knife all day long.

It a dark cloud comes along, you will have to spend countless hours maintaining and polishing your knife with the above mentioned remedies.

If there is any rain or ANY humidity at all a carbon steel knife wont work.

If mud, water from a stream or if snow as much as touches a carbon steel knife, you'd have to curl up and die, because the carbon steel knife is instantly - instantly - ruined."

Person 2:

Objectively and in a courteous manner:

"Well, not sure about your claim, that carbon steel dont work.

Ive used a carbon steel knife for decades winter and summer for travelling, hiking, camping in lowlands sub zero temps and hunting wild boar in primeval Eastern European forrest in ditto teeth crunching sub zero temps to the scorching high temps of African hills and a carbon steel knife has no problem coping.

I dont use sandpaper, WD40, ScotchBrite nor baby wipes - I just wipe the knife on a sleeve or on the pants after use.

A carbon steel knife works fine in actual use and have done so for many years for a whole lot of people."

Person 1

"You actually using a carbon steel knife for many years count for nothing.

An apropos nothing at all, ESEE survival courses will eventually end, so you cant use a carbon steel knife there either.

SERE cant use carbon steel either because fish swim in water, birds fly in the air and there are tribes in jungles ... somewhere."

Person 2:

Like.

"?"
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
Taking pictures of your knife in snow with your hammock isnt survival. Im not talking about SERE school (which you know ends) or living in a rain forest (where at the very least you are in a tribe) or on a military operation (where you are with a team). Im talking about surviving by yourself for an extended period of time away from electricity. I plan for the worst case scenario.

Its an opinion related to this: "If you knew you were about to spend a long time in the wilderness in any environment, what knife would knife would you choose to bring with you, and why?"

Our opinions apparently differ based on our thoughts and experiences. Isnt that the point of forums?
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Yes it is, I get what you're trying say and agree. Carbon steel in REAL world use rusts to the point of failure over a span of months. I recommend 420j2 :thumbsup:
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
Lol, you guys are silly.

- Nobody ever considered corrosion resistance, ever. There's no need for it. Theres no market for 3V, D2, or stainless steel knives.
- Water and carbon steel get along well.
- Survival situations never, ever involve rain or humidity.
- Wiping your knife on your sleeve after every use is more than legitimate maintenance. Rust prevention and removal products do not exist.
- Bring your hammock and your camera so you can document the anti iron oxidation capabilities of your 1095 blade.
- An extended period of time is no more than two days at your favorite camp site.

Cool.
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You've painted yourself into a corner and now you just sound ridiculous.

I love 3v. One of my favorite steels. I also have a whole fleet of fixed blades in s35vn. One I would consider a go to survival knife. No issues with it what so ever. What I, and everyone else is taking issue with is the way you have dismissed high carbon steels, such as 1095, and some of the big time survival knife makers because of their use of such a steel. Also, your obsession with rust is misplaced for most of us here. If your knife rusts in a survival situation it doe not mean you will not survive.

Lastly, all you are doing now is getting insulting. I won't take further part in your nonsensical negative discourse. Enjoy trying to find someone who solely agrees with you and can't see other perspectives. I think you'll find there aren't many people like that who hang around here for long.
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
Lol, you guys are silly.

- Nobody ever considered corrosion resistance, ever. There's no need for it. Theres no market for 3V, D2, or stainless steel knives.
- Water and carbon steel get along well.
- Survival situations never, ever involve rain or humidity.
- Wiping your knife on your sleeve after every use is more than legitimate maintenance. Rust prevention and removal products do not exist.
- Bring your hammock and your camera so you can document the anti iron oxidation capabilities of your 1095 blade.
- An extended period of time is no more than two days at your favorite camp site.

Cool.
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It would be helpful, if you actully read and assimilated the posts, you quote.

How ever, as you seem bent on confrontation, Im out of this thread.

Your writing style and level of experience is on a par with another member here.

He likes tube socks and ss 440 steel fine edged hollow handle knives.

You should get together, as you have a lot in common.
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
Our opinions apparently differ based on our thoughts and experiences. Isnt that the point of forums?
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Yes, this is the point of forums. However, your opinion does not supersede or invalidate anyone else's. You last bunch of posts seem to suggest that other people are incorrect in their opinion. Now you can make that statement, but you better be able to back it up. In this case I don't think that is possible. You are being needlessly antagonistic, and there is no reason for that.
 
Higgs Particle steel said:
Lol, you guys are silly.

- Nobody ever considered corrosion resistance, ever. There's no need for it. Theres no market for 3V, D2, or stainless steel knives.
- Water and carbon steel get along well.
- Survival situations never, ever involve rain or humidity.
- Wiping your knife on your sleeve after every use is more than legitimate maintenance. Rust prevention and removal products do not exist.
- Bring your hammock and your camera so you can document the anti iron oxidation capabilities of your 1095 blade.
- An extended period of time is no more than two days at your favorite camp site.

Cool.
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While I was in the military I had a bayonet made out of 1095 that endured several years of humidity in South Carolina's low country and many continuous months of being mistreated in rainy weather while being deployed.

I was young and dumb and didn't even think about putting oil on the blade. Just, cleaned any gunk off the blade after using it, wiped it off before putting it back in its sheath, and never did anything stupid like leaving it sitting in a pile of water. Never saw a bit of red rust.

On the flip side a buddy of mine used the knife on his Gerber (multi tool) to cut up some fruit, didn't bother to clean it and developed rust on his "stainless" blade.

Take care of your tools and they'll work fine.
 
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