Knifemaker's Guild Show Sept 17-20

I must disagree with you about the board not being receptive to input and suggestions. That has not been my experience and I have not seen an example that. Because your ideas were not accepted does not mean they were not considered.
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I will have to disagree with you on this point.

People are lazy and creatures of habit by nature. They like to go to the show in the same place as they get to know their way around.

As I wrote earlier the Guild is not just a show. It owes it to its membership to not hole themselves up in central Florida. Hell I live in central Georgia and it was a 6 1/2 hour drive for me...and I was in the next state!

Nice to see the Guild is using a search committee for a location.

If this show is not a barn burner next year you will hear people lamenting it needs to go back to Florida.

The show is less than a year away.... The planning should start 8 am tomorrow for that. However, what about the plans for improving the Guild for its membership. What suggestions do you have for improving the Guild. What plans were discussed at the Business Meeting to this end?
 
Les Robertson said:
The "vehicle" to make this happen is obvious, straight forward and extremely cost effective.
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I'm sorry to interrupt:o
Les, what is this vehicle you're referring to, if you don't mind my asking?
 
I am not going to recite the minutes of the meeting but I will say there was a lot of discussion about how to make room to include more exhibitors next year. Everyone was sorry that there was a waiting list this year and we couldn't accomodate everyone. Several options are being explored to expand the show next year since it was already about 70% sold out by the end of this years show.

We also discussed changes in the way knives are selected for advertising the show to better reflect the quality of the show.

My suggestions would be (and will be to the board) to do a better job of telling people what the Guild is about, how it works, and what it stands for. I also think their website can be utilized much more than it currently is to provide more inflormation about the guild and it's members.

I also suggest better promotion and easier application for Honorary members.

This year we brought in 3 new corporate sponsors of awards and prizes for the show. We established a relationship with the Frazier International Museum of historic arms. The museum's founder, Owsley Brown Frazier, a world class collector, personally selected the winner and presented the award along with a $500 check to the winner.

Makers Mark, a well known Kentucky distiller, also sponsored our first "Makers Mark People Choice Award" along with a $500 prize. I think this was a great addition to show us what the people in attendance like. Makers Mark also provided a reception for table holders and honorary members and provided free drinks in the their trademark wax-dipped glasses.

I certainly consider these to be improvements to the Guild Show and I hope to see more of this type of local and regional support.

I think we did a good job of promoting the show regionally. All of the regular collectors and enthusiasts already know about the show. In addition to the national advertising in Knife Magazines and on the Internet, we heavily targeted the general public within reasonable driving distance of Louisville with TV, newspaper and transit advertising. This brought in a lot of fresh faces and exposed a lot of new people who had never seen anything like this before. I think that was a very positve result and heard several say they would be planning and saving for next years show. We need to keep it up.

I have been on the soapbox long enough. A lot of makers and collectors were there. Lets hear what you thought of the show.
 
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Mike,

You some good ideas. Now let's see if the Guild can execute them.

Id like to hear from others at the show as well.

Hell any show....OK Custom Show, ABS Show (more than just the 6 people who chimed in), Chicago, PKA Show....was attendance really that low at those shows?
 
I find the audience photos alarming because seniors older than even me are disproportionately represented. This means the population of Guild Show attendees is moribund if recruitment is less than attrition, as it appears. I don't go to knife shows so I don't know if this is peculiar or the norm, but I never saw anything like this in the gun shows I used to frequent back in the 1970s and 80s. Good luck.

ken
 
Many of the knifemakers, maybe the majority, are older craftsmen. This may be due in part to the fact that most are people who have spent many years developing their knifemaking skills. You must also consider that showing at a Guild show is considerably more expensive than a typical gun show so it tends to be those who have established themselves as knifemakers and have a somewhat successful business or following.

As for the attendees, there was a pretty good mix of all ages. The younger people may not have the financial resources that some of the older collectors do and this show is going to generally have more expensive knives than a show selling production knives.

I also think the older generation is more appreciative of fine knives. People of my generation grew up carrying a pocket knife and/or a hunting knife. We took them to school and showed them off to our friends. These days a kid gets thrown out of school for drawing a picture of a knife so we are seeing a decline in young knife enthusiasts since they are not allowed to have them and are being taught that knives are bad.

Actually, I see the same thing at gun shows around here.
 
Mike Carter Custom Knives said:
I also think the older generation is more appreciative of fine knives. People of my generation grew up carrying a pocket knife and/or a hunting knife. We took them to school and showed them off to our friends. These days a kid gets thrown out of school for drawing a picture of a knife so we are seeing a decline in young knife enthusiasts since they are not allowed to have them and are being taught that knives are bad.
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that's THE BIG PROBLEM as I see it.
I was happy to see over at our local Scout camp's open house yesterday, many scouts of all ages with a knife on their belt or out in use.
I had heard that Scouts banned knives which is ridiculous and worrisome.
How can shows help with this 'knife fearing' phenomenon?
 
I resigned from consulting with the Guild, wasn't fired.

Ken Warner once told me that being a consultant was being paid to give advice that will be ignored. In the Guild's case the did follow some of the advice I offered.

I attended the Guild show this past weekend and found the location next to the downtown nighttime activity area to be great, the hotel was nice, the smaller size meant the show sold out and they met the room block. The inclusion of Makers Mark and Mr. Fraizer has the potential to bring some important new buyers to the market in that area.

One problem as I see it is what is the definition of a "good" show. That has changed over the years, and the expectations have changed as well.

If one is a collector of only name makers, or only makers with a waiting list who have to have drawings, then there will rarely be any new "good" shows, only the handful of boutique shows the name makers are now attending.

However, as strange as it may sound, I believe the largest part of the dollars spent in the handmade market these days is outside that very limited market of "good shows". But the showy big ticket knives get the publicity.

A lot of the criticism of good shows and bad shows starts out with "I heard" rather than "I attended." Secondhand information is just that.
 
It was a good show for Charlie and I and to paraphrase Elmer Keith "Hell we were there". For us, some of the right customers were definitely there too. This is our fifth Guild Show as makers and this has to be best one so far. It seems like every year is better. We enjoyed Louisville and the hotel. It was easy to get to and in a convenient location. I could not have asked for a nicer place to stay. We parked the truck on Thursday and didn't move it until Sunday afternoon. The drive up was about nine hours long as opposed to the 4 or 5 hour drive to Orlando. We have always felt kind of guilty because it was so easy for us to get to Orlando and others had to travel so far. We were at every show in Orlando on one side of the table or the other and enjoyed them all. But it was past time for a move in my opinion. Personally I would much rather the show be somewhere in the center of the country than in Florida, even with the longer drive time or if it became necessary for us to fly. We are going to be there no matter what, but it needs to be convenient for the customers.

We noticed a lot of regular Guild Show attendees that we have seen for years and a lot of people that were obviously new to a custom knife show. There were some people that were missing too, both customers and makers, and I hope that they will return next year. I think the evidence in the photos might be a little misleading concerning the age of the attendees. There were many younger people in attendance and they were very interested in the knives. Course I'm 58 and more than half the people out there are "younger people" to me. All the people on the other side of the table, young and old, were very interested in the knives on display. We spent hours talking about knives and explaining what we do and how. You just got to love it!

There seemed to be a larger number of Honorary members in attendance than I have seen in the past few years, but I don't know the statistics on that. It is just an observation. We had no problems with the isles or room behind the tables. When you have had someone set up camp in the space you share between the tables at other shows, it seems like we had plenty of room. I would rather the customers have the room, but I like a crowded isle too. It seems to increase the urgency the customer feels to make a buy. The lighting was a little low but was very favorable to a show and not the harsh halogen light that is seen in many locations.

I took a little time out from behind the table and added a ton of Maker’s marks to the collection. Two dealers that were present were a great help. They allowed me to take photos of their knives and helped me to identify some that I had questions about. I got a tremendous amount of support from all the makers and only quit when my battery died.


The sharing of information between makers and the input you get from collectors that have your knife in their hands is worth the trip in itself.

We had a great time and look forward to next year's show.
 
Ken Williams said:
I find the audience photos alarming because seniors older than even me are disproportionately represented. This means the population of Guild Show attendees is moribund if recruitment is less than attrition, as it appears. I don't go to knife shows so I don't know if this is peculiar or the norm, but I never saw anything like this in the gun shows I used to frequent back in the 1970s and 80s. Good luck.

ken
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Blade Magazine reported in one of last year's issues that the average custom knife buyer was a caucasian, male 56 years old.

This may or may not be the same for those who attend knife shows.
 
TennKnifeman said:
I resigned from consulting with the Guild, wasn't fired.

Ken Warner once told me that being a consultant was being paid to give advice that will be ignored. In the Guild's case the did follow some of the advice I offered.

I attended the Guild show this past weekend and found the location next to the downtown nighttime activity area to be great, the hotel was nice, the smaller size meant the show sold out and they met the room block. The inclusion of Makers Mark and Mr. Fraizer has the potential to bring some important new buyers to the market in that area.

One problem as I see it is what is the definition of a "good" show. That has changed over the years, and the expectations have changed as well.

Very true. The definition of a "good show" can vary depending on whether you are a show promoter, maker or collector.

If one is a collector of only name makers, or only makers with a waiting list who have to have drawings, then there will rarely be any new "good" shows, only the handful of boutique shows the name makers are now attending.

However, as strange as it may sound, I believe the largest part of the dollars spent in the handmade market these days is outside that very limited market of "good shows". But the showy big ticket knives get the publicity.

A lot of the criticism of good shows and bad shows starts out with "I heard" rather than "I attended." Secondhand information is just that.
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I agree. Perhaps there's too many opinions on shows by those who don't attend shows.
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Hi Bruce,

You are of course right. I stand corrected.

One problem as I see it is what is the definition of a "good" show. That has changed over the years, and the expectations have changed as well.
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This is the best sentence in this thread.

As sellers of custom knives on the Internet provide more and more collectors with their knives. The shows have taken on a more "social" aspect. Many of the shows provide a central meeting location for friends who have met through Internet forums.

So a "good" show doesn't have to necessarily have to have good "sales".

Here are some comments (Knife maker speak) for it the show and sales were slow:

"The facility was excellent"

"It was a first year show"

"I haven't seen "(insert name(s)) in years it was good to catch up"

"I got some great handle material"

"Great nightlife/restaurants"

While those can all be legitimate comments. However, when you hear that instead of it was a very profitable show. I covered my expenses, restocked my handle material box and had enough left over to pay for my table next year.

If you went to the show and did not make a profit...from a purely business perspective the show was a failure. If any table holder didn't cover their expenses and still says it was a "good" show. They just took a vacation. :D

However, as strange as it may sound, I believe the largest part of the dollars spent in the handmade market these days is outside that very limited market of "good shows". But the showy big ticket knives get the publicity.
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This is the 2nd best sentence in this thread.

Without a doubt the Internet has been slowly eating into show sales for years. The economic slow down has become the "tipping" point for many collectors. In lieu of spending money attending shows...they are spending that money on the Internet.

I think the Showy Big Ticket knives will always get the press as everyone likes to talk about the "Big Sale". It is more psychological than anything else.

What people either ignore or fail to grasp is that, the particular maker of that could have probably sold the knife on the Internet....and possibly for more money as there would be a larger collector base to sell to.

The majority of the big ticket items are being sold by very well established makers...read "older". They grew up (in custom knives) on shows. They are not as "techno" oriented as the majority of the new makers. Consequently, they attend the shows.

Lets face it who doesn't want real live human beings telling you what a great knife it is...while handing you real live money!

So the question would be....what can shows do to get more people to the shows?

Several things come to mind.

Excellent Post Bruce.
 
Thank you Bruce for your input. It was good to see you at the show.

I have done several shows that were not profitable at the time but I still considered them a successful show. In some cases the profit came after the fact in sales and orders that came directly from someone who saw my work at a show earlier.

A dealer may have a different perspective but as a maker I consider show expenses to be advertising. It's as much about exposure and getting out there meeting people and talking about your knives as it is immediate sales.

The human contact element is important too. I know a knife means more to me if was made by someone I have met, talked with and shook their hand as opposed to an anonymous Internet purchase.

The social element is also important to me. I always come away from a show more educated about knives and knifemaking.
 
Les Robertson said:
If you went to the show and did not make a profit...from a purely business perspective the show was a failure. If any table holder didn't cover their expenses and still says it was a "good" show. They just took a vacation. :D
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Don't agree.

Face to face interaction with collectors can be VERY beneficial to a maker's business.
Just a single contact could result in thousands of dollars in future knife sales.

My copy of "Knives 2010" just arrived, see ya latter.
 
A dealer may have a different perspective but as a maker I consider show expenses to be advertising. It's as much about exposure and getting out there meeting people and talking about your knives as it is immediate sales.
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Don't agree.

Face to face interaction with collectors can be VERY beneficial to a maker's business.
Just a single contact could result in thousands of dollars in future knife sales.
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Mike and Kevin, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Meeting with makers has strenghted my relationship with them immensely and that resulted in orders on my part.

Marcel
 
Les, per your posts in this thread, all but the last two (they were actually positive).

I was just talking to Cliff Parker this morning about this thread and we both want to
know if you have to work at being like you are, or does it come naturally? :D

Seriously, you make some good points but damn, man. Looks to me like the Guild is
trying, at least they moved the show. That's a good start , don't you think?

Also, your comment about Chicago being one of the Premier shows?
 
Mike,

I applaud your responses. You are getting thrown hard pitches from an All-Star player and hitting them out in center field every time. Both of you have grown. This thread is illuminating from every level.

I just encountered my first 'non-business successful' show and it was in part due to the success of the Guild Show. I will report back in my own thread about the Chicago show later today.

A visit to a show, though not profit-making at the time, may spawn a seed that grows into unrealized gains. I understand.

Thanks!

Coop
 
Hi Mike,

I have done several shows that were not profitable at the time but I still considered them a successful show. In some cases the profit came after the fact in sales and orders that came directly from someone who saw my work at a show earlier.
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This is an example of "knife maker speak".

Profitable in "some cases" what about the rest of those "cases".

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy shows as much as anyone.

However, when you are a full timer in this business...it is a business. Shows that produce little or no actual sales at the show are not good shows. Yes, you can construe this as "advertising"....a common misnomer.

The idea of advertising should either be saturation (check your mail box) or Direct/target marketing...an ad in Blade or Knives Illustrated for example.

Setting up a table at a show and hoping to meet a new customer is gambling not advertising. Now this is not to say that you cannot increase your chances by actually doing some target marketing prior to the show. Very Very few knife makers actually do this. Why? Because they feel it is the promoters job to advertise. They are correct..it is the promoters job to advertise the SHOW. Generally at best you get your name on a long laundry list of makers names...like what the Guild did.

Now if a potential client is not familiar with your work or your name. If they do find you at the show it will usually be most collectors will walk the room. Most actually come to the show with a game plan as to who they want to see and possibly by a knife from (top ten kinda thing).

The Guild was nice enough to set up a section where you could look at table holders work. Amazingly only 42 of the 120 makers had photos on that page. I noticed that both you and Harry Matthews had photos on that page. Good for your two.

I can only imagine that there was an extra cost for that? As that would probably explain why 65% of the Guild Members setting up at the show did not take advantage of this.

How many more people would have come if they could have seen an example of the work of the rest of the table holders?

Given the fact that Point 7 is there, obviously there is plenty of opportunity to get a photo. Yes a photo is advertising, as it can be used in multiple places. Isn't that right Coop! :D

The Guild has a website, they have a seperate page for their show...they need to take it a step further and showcase at least one knife from every maker setting up. There will always be a couple due to time constraints.

Imagine a show case of 120 professional photos on the Show Page!!!

Imagine how many more collectors would want to come to the show.

Imagine how many more emails, phone calls, potential orders and sales a maker could get because of this.

Nah. LOL :D
 
Hi Don,

I notice that both you and Cliff are voting members of the Guild...yet chose not to attend the 40th Anniversary show??? :D

Seriously, you make some good points but damn, man. Looks to me like the Guild is trying, at least they moved the show. That's a good start , don't you think?
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Don did you notice I wrote 40th ANNIVERSARY. I say that because you wrote:

"That's a good start"

Start???? Generally that is not a word associated with an event that has occurred each year for the lat 40 YEARS.

So no moving the show that has been in Kansas City, Dallas, Orlando, Las Vegas, New Orleans, Orlando and now Louisville...is not a start. The Guild Show has moved numerous times.

Perhaps the term should be a "Fresh Start"! :D

Regarding the Chicago Show, I think a lot of people consider it a "premier" show...none that forge...but a lot of people. :D

The show has lost some of its "luster" over the last two years. I think most will agree that the way the Tactical Invitational and Auction, sucked a lot of money out of the room for sales during the show. I think Ed has made the right decision to move the show to Vegas. Perhaps this will eliminate some of that "Bad Element" that permeates that show....Dealers. :D

Can't hardly swing a dead cat without hitting one of them at that show.

Ok, I just looked at the list of makers who attended the show this year. It was not what I remember. The show has lost a lot of its "Firepower". Looks like the majority of the big names were at the Tactical Invitational.

So I will agree with you that that show needs to come off the premier list. Given that I think you will agree with my assessment that the Guild show is not a "Premier" show. Just stating facts....The ABS Knife Expo is not a premier show....But they did move the show...so that is a "Start". :D

Having been around for 25 years now...I am jaded...yes jaded I tell you. I view this as a business.

This years Blade Show was the worst one I have ever had in 17 years.

Was it the Location...no

Was it the Economy...no

Was it the time of year....no

Then what was it?????

The 3 days prior to the Blade Show I sold almost 5 times as many knives as I did at the 3 days of the Blade Show.

I blame my website!

Love the Blade Show...got see several thousand of my closest friends. Bought some knives, sold some knives, traded some knives....got to look at thousands of knives! However, from a business perspective...it was a failure.

However, if you put Tuesday through Sunday together...It was an incredible week....a week I would love to have every week!

Oh to answer your question it did not come naturally I had to work at it....however I was told by some I had the "gift". LOL

Actually I blame my time in the Infantry. It was there I learned that the maximum effective range of an excuse is Zero Meters. :D

Don, like I told Mike earlier, this isn't for him or the Guild. This is for people to read. Get fired up, create a dialog, ask questions and find solutions to the problems.

The biggest problem (today) seems to be lack of customers at shows.

So what needs to be done to get more customers to the shows?

Hint: It starts with the knife makers.
 
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