Knifemaker's Guild Show Sept 17-20

Seriously, you make some good points but damn, man. Looks to me like the Guild is
trying, at least they moved the show. That's a good start , don't you think?

By not examining the mistakes of the past, we are doomed to repeat them in the future.

Les can be a bit harsh, but don't we need that to counterbalance the generally sunny and possibly exhuberantly optomistic outlook of many of the members assembled?

Like the Matthews brothers, have been on both sides of a table. Agree about 95% with what Les has said about not selling at shows...if you are not selling, you are having a vacation...and it is hopefully a good one. Nothing wrong with a vacation.

Am however, reminded of my experience at the Santa Barbara show. I was looking for two specific types of knives....tactical style neck knives and 2 or 3 bladed pearl handled slipjoints. There were many neck knives at the show, was able to get my fill at about $250.00/per on average...that made me happy. No multi-blades that fit the bill in anything close to "reasonable=$1,000+/-". Left the show with a good chunk of change still in my pocket...and didn't want to.

Met and spoke with Ricardo Velarde at the show, and was quite taken with his integral knives. So taken, I ordered a stag-handled chute knife from him a few months ago, a $2,000+ knife. Simply put, if he had not been at the show, would not have placed the order. Conversely, if he had the knife with him at the show, I would have purchased it.

It is all a gamble, but it should be an informed, modulated gamble with the odds stacked in the favor of the seller when possible. The only way to accomplish this is to constantly be researching market trends, and attempt to create work that the maker AND the collector can both feel good about., and find desireable.


Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Perhaps the term should be a "Fresh Start"!

Yes Les, that's a better way to put it. At least something is happening :)

Thanks for answering our question, figured it was natural :D

I've been around custom knives for over 25 years and I do remember what the Guild was, it was The Show to do. So yes, things have change.

And yes, Cliff and I were not at the Guild show. I didn't do Chicago either (I had 5 pretty good shows there, prior to the move) and have never done the ABS show (Cliff had a good show there, Sales!). I did however have my best Blade show ever this year, guess I brought the right stuff at the right prices :D
What I get for not doing these recent shows; Staying in the shop, making and selling knives :cool:

Les can be a bit harsh, but don't we need that to counterbalance the generally sunny and possibly exhuberantly optomistic outlook of many of the members assembled?

Yes, Steven, this thread would not be near as interesting and long, if not for Les :D
My post was just a little counterbalance to Les...
 
Hi Don:

I've been around custom knives for over 25 years and I do remember what the Guild was, it was The Show to do. So yes, things have change.

That was actually my point...and still is. History (albeit ancient) has to be considered in the equation.

Don, you are in that position that most makers strive to and very few achieve...mostly through luck. :D

The story would be if you didn't have a good show.

BTW, have you noticed how many people have read this thread?
 
Les, yes history does have an effect but your attitude seems be that the Guild should just disband, pack up and go away becuase of things happened in the past tht you didn't like. You obviously have a bug up your butt about the Guild. I don't. I think it is good organization and good for the industry. I think they are making the right moves and put on a fine show. Most people who were actually there tend to agree.

You also tend to assume a lot. The Guild charges nothing for the members and table holders to post pictures on the website. We asked for more pictures to be posted. I don't why they didn't do it. Some just don't mess with the Internet.

I don't know what enjoyment you get from tearing people down but you really seem to be a "the glass is empty" type of guy.

If you don't like the Guild or the Guild show, that's fine. Don't assume everybody feels the same way. Please invite me to your show so you can show us all how it's done.
 
Imagine the heat I would take if I posted something like this here:

First, I want to point out that I am an ardent fan of Blade Magazine and I believe the publication provides a very real service to the knife community. Likewise, I think the Blade Show has traditionally set a standard of excellence in knife shows. I have attended the last seven Blade Shows and it has always been an impressive exhibition. I only hope that those traditions continue.

Unfortunately, this year’s Blade Show was a disappointment to many table holders for a variety of reasons. With the down economy I’m sure most of us expected a smaller crowd and a slump in sales. Every year some knifemakers do well and others do not. This year was no different in that respect.

What was different was new show management and in my opinion they fell far short of what we have come to expect from the biggest, and traditionally the best, knife show of the year.

I understand that corporate consolidation is a common practice and FW Publications decided to put one group of people in charge of all of their shows covering a variety of interests. I could normally expect to excuse some mistakes and shortcomings when a new management group is put in charge. However this situation was different in a number of ways. What I find inexcusable is the number of problems that could have, and should have, been avoided.

The biggest gripes I have heard from table holders is a pathetic lack of communication from the management prior to the show. Phone calls and email routinely went unanswered. Many table holders could not get confirmation of their table location, or if they even HAD a table, until it was too late to meet publishing deadlines for advertising. The excuse that the management was busy running some antique show somewhere carries no weight with the knifemakers. This is our show and for many it has become a very important part of our annual business plan. We invest a lot of time, money and effort into this show and we expect the management to give it equal importance.

Another major problem was table assignments. Several knifemakers had been on the waiting list for years yet were not called when a table was available or else were given less than preferred spots at the rear of the show. This could be acceptable if the show was a sellout and those who had been previous table holders or had been on the waiting list the longest were systematically offered the better spots. Instead, people who had never held a table and had never even been on the waiting list were able to call two days before the show and get much better locations, in some cases in the first few rows. That is just wrong and understandably ticks off a lot of your customers.

And there is the issue of non-ABS and non-Guild members getting table locations in the ABS and Guild sections often in preference over members of those organizations who go a long way toward making the Blade Show what it is. The collectors and buyers who come to the show appreciate and expect to find ABS knifemakers in the ABS section, Guild members in the Guild section, other makers of handmade knives in the handmade section, etc. They do not expect to find tables selling purses in prominent spots in the ABS section while real ABS knifemakers are relegated to the south forty somewhere. Again, this tends to leave a bad taste with those knifemakers who are the lifeblood of this show.

I was told by two people who had complained about the ABS/Guild section issues that they were told by management “Well, we could take down the (ABS/Guild) signs.” What an arrogant and uncaring response! If the show management thinks they do not need the ABS and Guild knifemakers in this show they are grossly mistaken. Collector and buyers come to this knife show because they expect to find the best knifemakers and knives all gathered in one show. That simply would not happen without the participation of the ABS and Knifemakers Guild.

I personally know of newcomers who were given front row tables, 2nd row tables and 4th row tables. These were preferred locations that should have been offered to previous year table holders and those who have been on the waiting list for a table. And no, these were not cancellations. I checked the exhibitors lists and the tables had not been assigned.

What makes this inexcusable and infuriating for many is that fact that many of these issues were flagged and publicly discussed long before the show yet received no attention. The new show management, by their own admission, has no experience with knifemakers or knife shows. In many cases the table holders have a LOT more experience and knowledge of the Blade Show than the folks who were running it this year. I would suggest that you listen to them. The most troublesome part is that show management simply did not seem to care.

This is an important and expensive endeavor for most knifemakers and table holders. In addition to some of the most expensive tables on the knife show circuit, table holders shell out for hotel and travel expenses, advertising, extra help and other related expenses. They may have thousands of dollars and months of preparation invested in this show and rightfully expect the full attention and cooperation of the show management. Unfortunately, that is not what they received this year. Some will not be back. Others will give you another year to get your act together. I would not count on any patience beyond that.

What needs to happen (in my opinion):

1. Timely communication and attention before the show.

2. ABS members in the ABS section, Guild members in the Guild section, handmade knives in the handmade section, etc. Preferably with ABS master smiths and full voting Guild members being placed in forward locations in their respective sections. Reserve tables in the respective sections for members of those organizations. After a published deadline, fill the remaining tables with non-members BEHIND the legitimate members.

3. Previous year table holders should be given first choice at available tables forward of their previous location in the appropriate section. Otherwise, they should have the option to remain at the same location provided that they have reserved a table for the next show.

4. People on the waiting list should always be given preference over those who call at the last minute for a table.

5. Non-knife related tables should get last consideration, if any at all. None of the knifemakers, collectors or dealers want this show to become a flea market.

6. Show management needs to police the show floor and remove brown baggers. This practice was rampant this year with some brown baggers being bold enough lay out their knives on the floor right in front of legitimate table holders. I realize you cannot control what goes on outside the arena or in the hotels but you CAN control what happens on the show floor. Only table holders should be allowed to sell on the show floor. The exception would be for someone selling TO a table holder.

7. Lose your supposed restriction on sharing tables. Everybody, including you, knows that it is done anyway so just drop the pretense. As long as the show is a sellout as it always has been, it does no harm, and is even a plus, to allow more knifemakers to share and show their knives. Many newer knifemakers may not be able to swallow the expense of a table but could swing half the cost of someone is willing to share with them. I don’t buy the excuse that you don’t allow sharing because you need to control who is selling what. That process would be exactly the same as with single table holders.

8. Pay attention to your applicant list and get the names right. It would help tremendously to assign this duty to someone who knows the knifemakers. I heard of numerous complaints where tables were listed and badges issued under names that were different from what the applicant had entered on the registration form. That should be a simple process with a “name” field on the application form but somehow it was not.

9. Price: In my opinion, this is not the time to raise table fees. There are many local knife shows where tables can be had for far less than the cost of Blade Show and without the associated travel expenses. It is understood that the Blade Show is an expensive show to put on and considerable advertising and resources go into it but raising prices in a slumping economy with a lot of less-than-happy customers does not seem like a wise move on your part.

It is my hope that someone in management reads this and takes it to heart but my confidence in that happening is low based on the experiences of many leading up to this years show. Unfortunately this is not a time to be patting yourselves on the back for a great show when a number of completely avoidable problems plagued the show and lot of participants will be reevaluating the importance of next years show. Being new management, some may give you a pass for some of the problems this year. Next year they will not. The future of the Blade Show hangs in the balance.


Perhaps this could be sent to the Guild to help them identify problems and possible solutions.

WOW
Unfortunately this is not a time to be patting yourselves on the back for a great show when a number of completely avoidable problems plagued the show and lot of participants will be reevaluating the importance of next years show. Being new management, some may give you a pass for some of the problems this year. Next year they will not. The future of the Blade Show hangs in the balance.


Is new management kinda like moving the show? If so Next years Guild Show better be one of the best ever....at least to this reviewer!
 
Oh, Jesus. And how is that relevant? Did YOU experience any of those problems at the Guild show? If you had copied the whole thread you would also see that the management agreed with most of what I said.

Moving a show to a new location is hardly the same thing as one put on by people who have never before run a knife show.

I started this thread to express my support and opinion of the Guild show and hoped to get productive feedback from people who were actually there not to debate the politics of the Guilld.
 
Mike,

I am not saying the Guild Should disband. Im saying they should stop making excuses as to why the organization has been in a downward slide for the last 15 years.

Put the blame squarely where it belongs...on the Boards of Directors (over those years).

You also tend to assume a lot. The Guild charges nothing for the members and table holders to post pictures on the website. We asked for more pictures to be posted. I don't why they didn't do it. Some just don't mess with the Internet.

I don't tend to assume anything...which is why I asked the question about the fee.

So your take is that 65% of the members don't want to post a photo because they don't want to "mess" with the Internet. WOW.

Given this, Im sure the Guild could take the photo that Coop, Point 7 or Chuck Ward take (they put them on a CD or can email them .....you know so you don't have to "mess" with the Internet.)

The Guild could put them directly onto that page on the Show page.

But you are right...why mess with that. LOL

I don't know what enjoyment you get from tearing people down but you really seem to be a "the glass is empty" type of guy.

First, I have not mentioned one person by name.

Second, I am a glass is always full kind of guy. Because if my glass is half-empty.....I fill it up.

If you don't like the Guild or the Guild show, that's fine. Don't assume everybody feels the same way. Please invite me to your show so you can show us all how it's done.

Mike I am aware that there of plenty of people who like the Guild and the show.

Im still waiting to hear what you propose to fix the problems that affect the Guild Show.

Obviously you had no problem pointing out issues at the Blade Show....don't you think you were a bit "harsh?"
 
BTW, have you noticed how many people have read this thread?

It's a lot, but it pales in comparison to those that haven't read it! :D

The Guild was nice enough to set up a section where you could look at table holders work. Amazingly only 42 of the 120 makers had photos on that page. I noticed that both you and Harry Matthews had photos on that page. Good for your two.

This is a great point Les! Actually there is no cost to place a photo in the gallery and Charlie and I have wondered why there aren't more participating. It is just a matter of e-mailing a photo to the Guild Sec. It seems like a no brainer to us and our picture might have resulted in the largest sale we have had to date. We will use it every time! We also donate a knife to the Guild to use as a door prize. It is cheap advertising that has been very effective. It puts one of our knives on a different table in the show and we have had people come looking for our table because of it. We hope that they let us keep doing that too.

I don't know of a single maker that goes to a show hoping that he doesn't sell a thing, but I know some that act like it doesn't matter if they sell anything or not. When going to shows as a collector I can remember seeing makers sit there acting totally unapproachable and they were. I have had them turn their back on me and start talking to a maker behind them. I am sure most of you have seen the same thing. I visited nearly every table at the Guild show and it was a very outgoing and approachable group of makers.

To me going to shows is about two things..... selling knives and selling Twin Blades. They can't be separated. It is work and you have to work at it. We have never been to a show that we didn't pick up customers. Is it a gamble? Yep! Most of our best customers first saw our work in an ad, but then checked us out at a show before ordering a knife. Every show we attend, every advertisement we place and every call we make or answer is geared towards the same end selling knives and Twin Blades. It is work but the harder we work the luckier we get. If we sat behind the table and read a book at the next show and didn't act interested in the potential customers that might range in age from eight to eighty the show would definitely be a dismal failure. If some child comes up and starts asking questions about your knives you have to treat him like he is your next best customer because his dad might be watching how you treat his son and he might actually be the next best customer. It has happened. We have to work twice as hard to make a good impression because both Charlie and I are very hard of hearing to the point of being nearly deaf. It is not fun, can't be helped and really makes us appreciate the patience shown by the public on the other side of the table.

To us the Guild Show is a relief from the noise and confusion of the Blade Show. It gives us a chance to interact with customers and that is important if you are hoping to build a lasting relationship that will be profitable. An elderly gentleman that was a very successful business man once told me you don't make your money from a customer the first time he buys from you, you make money by repeatedly selling to him.

Shows both big ones and little ones, internet participation and selling, advertising it is all part of the business and it is all important when it comes to dealing with the public and getting your work in front of them.
 
No, no. We did the best we could with the Guild show and obvoiusly didn't live up to your standards. So please enlighten us and you tell us exactly what needs to be fixed with the Guild and the Guild show and exactly what should be done to fix it. That shouldn't be much of a challenge for one with all of the answers.
 
Mike.

That post is relevant to show your bias towards the Guild as compared to the Blade Show. I don't know if you do any other shows?

I find it interesting that there was nothing wrong with the Guild Show (according to you) Great Show, Great People...blah blah blah.

However you find time to eviscerate the Blade Show and it's management.

Don't you think that was a bit "harsh"?

Yes, Steve Shackelford was very gracious to take the time to answer your questions, problems and concerns publicly. Im sure they will look at those and other issues.

Just a note....if you knives aren't selling...it is not the shows fault....it is yours.

With regards to the Guild show....it's give them a chance.

With regards to the Blade Show...its Fix all you problems or else.

You don't see the dichotomy there?

If you don't like the Guild or the Guild show, that's fine. Don't assume everybody feels the same way. Please invite me to your show so you can show us all how it's done.

If you don't like the Blade Show...don't go. Don't assume that everybody feels the same way that you do.

BTW, the Guild Show is not "your" show. I have promoted two shows. You let me know when you are going to promote your first one.
 
Hi Mike,


No, no. We did the best we could with the Guild show and obviously didn't live up to your standards. So please enlighten us and you tell us exactly what needs to be fixed with the Guild and the Guild show and exactly what should be done to fix it. That shouldn't be much of a challenge for one with all of the answers.

No the show lived up to the Guild Standards. I was hoping you could help it live up to your standards (Please see your comments about the Blade Show).

As it is obvious that you do not know what to do or you would have answered my questions several pages ago. Which surprises me since you had pages of recommendations for the Blade Show.

Please feel free to have the Board Of Directors contact me and we can discuss and hourly fee or just a flat rate.

Yes, they will have to pay me for my time and expertise regarding the business of custom knives.

Yes, I do have the answers.

Tell you what Mike, if the Guild hires me and the show does not see an increase in traffic and sales. I will refund my fee or donate it to a charity of the Guild's choice.

Of course the Guild will have to actually implement my suggestions. I know you hate to talk about ancient history. Im sure if would talk with Bruce Voyles he can tell you about his experience. Although you probably picked up on what happened by his definition of what a consultant is.

Feel free to ask Gil or any other board member to contact me and I will be happy to discuss the show with them.
 
Ok Les, this will be my last response to you as this debate has become a pointless childish mudslinging match.

The problems at the Blade show did not occur at the Guild show. If they did, and I had any say about it, they would be fixed. Yes, I was harsh and was pretty upset about the avoidable and what I thought were obvious problems that occurred. And yes, Steve took them seriously and was very gracious in his response. I have no doubt that the issues will be addressed.

I am not aware of any serious problems with the Guild show that need to be fixed. You thought the tables were too close together because someone supposedly told you they were. Why would they complain to you and not the Guild board? Are you going to make the room larger?

Yes, I would like to have more attendees and more buyers. I think we had a pretty good crowd but I don't know how to make them spend their money on a knife when they are wondering if they can make thier house payment next month.

In a way, the Guild Show is my show as it is for every Guild member but no, I don't run it. I do help where I can.

You promoted two shows and I am sure they must have been the most successful shows in knife show history. I wonder why you aren't still doing it.

I came away from the Guild Show feeling very good about it. I still do. I had a very enjoyable weekend with a lot of great people and I sold a few knives. Many people told me they enjoyed it and are looking forward to the next one. You seem determined to drag it into the mud. I am not going to go there with you.
 
No, no. We did the best we could with the Guild show and obvoiusly didn't live up to your standards. So please enlighten us and you tell us exactly what needs to be fixed with the Guild and the Guild show and exactly what should be done to fix it. That shouldn't be much of a challenge for one with all of the answers.

Mike,

I don't really know you, but know quite a bit of Les. Don't lose your cool...you really are doing a great job. Les, by nature, works to get everyone to think harder and to stretch his or her minds. For the most part, it is because he is bored, and truly desires intelligent and engaged dialogue....he doesn't just do it to be a prick.:D If you chose to sell knives to people via the internet and telephone you would understand how boring and destructive to the intellect that can be.

Just a note....if you knives aren't selling...it is not the shows fault....it is yours.

With regards to the Guild show....it's give them a chance.

With regards to the Blade Show...its Fix all you problems or else.

You don't see the dichotomy there?

If you don't like the Blade Show...don't go. Don't assume that everybody feels the same way that you do.

BTW, the Guild Show is not "your" show. I have promoted two shows. You let me know when you are going to promote your first one.

You are starting to lay it on past thick, amigo. There is a difference between engaging in discussion, and beating someone up, just because "you can".

It does not become you, it damages more than it builds.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hi Mike,

That was the response I expected.

I agree that "fix" is probably the wrong word.

Improve would be a better word.

My offer still stands.
 
Hi STeven,

LOL....I think you meant "Prickly". :D

I appreciate you taking the time to try and explain my behavior.

Bored is a good word....but probably the fact that I love a challenge (hence the offer to help improve the show) would better describe me.
 
Hi Harry,

Actually there is no cost to place a photo in the gallery and Charlie and I have wondered why there aren't more participating. It is just a matter of e-mailing a photo to the Guild Sec.

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm sure there are table holders who didn't understand that. Probably thinking like Mike wrote that they would somehow have to "mess " with the Internet.

Perhaps if the Guild included paperwork in the show package. Arranging a "show special" with the show photographer (as the photo would used specifically for the Guild Show Page...eliminating the need to send it to magazines, etc....although that option would be available to the maker at an additional fee.)

The object of this is to get at least one professional photo from each of the makers attending on the show page.
 
It would sure help to have a good photo of a representative knife from each maker posted. I have used those pictures myself to see what might be availiable at the show and made a point to visit the makers to see the knives that interested me.

Mike we need to see some more of the pictures you took at the show. I saw you and Edmund Davidson slipping around with your camers taking pictures. I hope you both will share them with us. I took a bunch of pictures but they were all of make's marks and it would not be very interesting if I showed mine.
 
It would sure help to have a good photo of a representative knife from each maker posted. I have used those pictures myself to see what might be availiable at the show and made a point to visit the makers to see the knives that interested me.

Mike we need to see some more of the pictures you took at the show. I saw you and Edmund Davidson slipping around with your camers taking pictures. I hope you both will share them with us. I took a bunch of pictures but they were all of make's marks and it would not be very interesting if I showed mine.

Harry, I agree about the pictures on the website. I think they should all be there and I brought that up a couple of times prior to the show. The request for pictures was posted in the Guild forums more than once. I know most have good photos of their knives but simply never submitted them or else they were submitted and never posted.

I would love to show all of my photos from the show but my hands are somewhat tied. I am writing a review and submitting photos to Blade magazine. Understandably, they don't want to publish photos that have already been published elsewhere. Once Blade has made their selections, I will post those they did not choose but that will take some time.

Mike
 
I understand that. Although I don't think that every body that reads Blade magazine knows about the Blade Forums or would see the pictures if they did. But it's their magazine, their call. I'm glad that you were there covering the show. If I had known that, I would have popped a few shots myself just to get the flavor of the show out there. Maybe we can get some posted from Edmund Davidson.
 
The editors called me on it once before when I posted a submitted picture on my website which is far more obscure than BF. So I play by their rules. I actually have Edmunds pictures and will be sending some of them to Blade.

A bunch of pictures have been posted in other threads.
 
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