Knives for New Recon Marine

Brian Jones said:
The insinuation the the Bravo-1 wasn't "up to snuff" is far different than what was written in the ad copy, Halbie.

Simply put, carbon steel will rust more than stainless. Everyone knows that. Trying to denigrate a maker's product the way you just did makes the reader suspicious that you have some sort of agenda. If you want to elminate that suspicion, then, in the future, you might be more careful with your choice of words.

By the same token, JimConvex, what happens in other forums needs to stay in other forums. We deal only with behavior here. Please keep the cross-forum stuff out of BFC.
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Thanks Brian.
 
Halbie said:
I think Mission would dispute that point. They are aggressively moving their beta-Ti in place of their A2 blades. In fact, they have an A2 version of the MPK, and it is noted as a better chopper - as well as being significantly heavier - but that is about all that can be said. The MPK in titanium is specifically designed to meet the needs of Navy Seals and USMC Recon personnel.

For a truly multipurpose mission, they actually recommend the MPF in titanium. I have the MPF in A2, and it's a good knife, but the Ti would have been a much better buy for the same price.

http://www.missionknives.com/articles/design_behind_the_mpk.html
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Halbie, I found the quote I was thinking of. It was from one of Joe Talmadge's articles on varieties of knife steels. This was from his discussion of non-steel materials::

"Titanium
Newer titanium alloys can be hardened near 50 Rc, and at that hardness
seem to take something approaching a useful edge. It is extremely
rust-resistant, and is non-magnetic. Popular as expensive dive knives
these days, because the SEALs use it as their knife when working around
magnetic-detonated mines. Mission knives uses titanium. Tygrys makes
a knife with a steel edge sandwiched by titanium."

The hardness and usability of the edge were what stuck in my mind as issues for every day use. For the right mission, they sounded indispensable, though.
 
Brian Jones said:
The insinuation the the Bravo-1 wasn't "up to snuff" is far different than what was written in the ad copy, Halbie.

Simply put, carbon steel will rust more than stainless. Everyone knows that. Trying to denigrate a maker's product the way you just did makes the reader suspicious that you have some sort of agenda. If you want to elminate that suspicion, then, in the future, you might be more careful with your choice of words.

By the same token, JimConvex, what happens in other forums needs to stay in other forums. We deal only with behavior here. Please keep the cross-forum stuff out of BFC.
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I would recommend the Mission MPK Ti for exactly the reasons cited. I have a Mission MPF-1 A2; I would expect it not to the the knife either Seal or Recon personnel would ultimately prefer. Both spend a good amount of time in the water and in wet conditions. So, why a carbon? It just didn't make a great deal of sense, but it was the knife most frequently recommended here. I believe someone even mentioned that BR is coming out with a SS version of the Bravo. I guess, that's the one I saw in the link (isn't it a SS variety?), but I'm not sure, because the ad copy says it's a limited run. So, another? I think it's a legitimate question.

I think the appearance of an agenda may work both ways. If, for example, I buy and review a knife some dislike, they freely bash it, make allegations against the manufacturer, and call me a shill - even if I bought the thing on a lark and was just pleasantly surprised with it's actual operation and performance - some might think that OK, even encourage that type of behavior. OTOH, every time someone asks for a knife recommendation, the same people chime in with a specific brand, no matter how inappropriate the application may be. Anyone who disagrees in the least is immediately held up as suspicious, having an agenda. I'm not saying that happened, here, but it easily could have, if you had not stepped in and provided some degree of even-handed clarity on the issue.

I have preferences just like any other, here, and I intend to express them as freely as any other. One should not have to be gushing with praise for specific brands to be considered above suspicion. Between the BR Bravo and the Mission MPK Ti, I'm going with the Mission. Likewise, I considered a BR for hunting this fall, but then came upon the Fallkniven TK1. I would think the fact that BR are being compared to (or considered an alternative to) what are often much more expensive knives a compliment in itself. Both the MPK Ti and TK1 will run about $100 more than the BRs I would consider. Of course, one is titanium and the other G3 powder steel. It's a preference that, provided the means, makes a great deal of sense. If my life were on the line, I would at least try to make the same choice.
 
Those Mission knives are over-looked! For what they are, you can't beat them. Just remember, sure, they can't like steel blades, they're Titanium, but they cut extremely well, and they are tougher than nails. And NO rust!
 
Halbie said:
I would recommend the Mission MPK Ti for exactly the reasons cited. I have a Mission MPF-1 A2; I would expect it not to the the knife either Seal or Recon personnel would ultimately prefer. Both spend a good amount of time in the water and in wet conditions. So, why a carbon? It just didn't make a great deal of sense, but it was the knife most frequently recommended here. I believe someone even mentioned that BR is coming out with a SS version of the Bravo. I guess, that's the one I saw in the link (isn't it a SS variety?), but I'm not sure, because the ad copy says it's a limited run. So, another? I think it's a legitimate question.

I think the appearance of an agenda may work both ways. If, for example, I buy and review a knife some dislike, they freely bash it, make allegations against the manufacturer, and call me a shill - even if I bought the thing on a lark and was just pleasantly surprised with it's actual operation and performance - some might think that OK, even encourage that type of behavior. OTOH, every time someone asks for a knife recommendation, the same people chime in with a specific brand, no matter how inappropriate the application may be. Anyone who disagrees in the least is immediately held up as suspicious, having an agenda. I'm not saying that happened, here, but it easily could have, if you had not stepped in and provided some degree of even-handed clarity on the issue.

I have preferences just like any other, here, and I intend to express them as freely as any other. One should not have to be gushing with praise for specific brands to be considered above suspicion. Between the BR Bravo and the Mission MPK Ti, I'm going with the Mission. Likewise, I considered a BR for hunting this fall, but then came upon the Fallkniven TK1. I would think the fact that BR are being compared to (or considered an alternative to) what are often much more expensive knives a compliment in itself. Both the MPK Ti and TK1 will run about $100 more than the BRs I would consider. Of course, one is titanium and the other G3 powder steel. It's a preference that, provided the means, makes a great deal of sense. If my life were on the line, I would at least try to make the same choice.
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Halbie, thanks for your input. It sounds like you have had some good experience with the Mission knives. Mission's web site says that their knives are issued to Marine Recon (as well as SEALs), so that solves the issue of dad or I paying retail for one.

As far as the Bravo vs. Fallkniven, I've seen nothing but good reports on both of them all over this forum, so either would be a good choice. So far the Bravo has the most people recommending it, plus with the Wet Enviro version some of the maintenance and corrosion issues are solved for troops working in a "marine" environment.

Lycosa said:
Those Mission knives are over-looked! For what they are, you can't beat them. Just remember, sure, they can't like steel blades, they're Titanium, but they cut extremely well, and they are tougher than nails. And NO rust!
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Thanks Lycosa. Since it sounds like the Mission titanium knives are issue items for Marine Recon, I can let the USMC take care off providing one for him.
 
Halbie said:
I would recommend the Mission MPK Ti for exactly the reasons cited. I have a Mission MPF-1 A2; I would expect it not to the the knife either Seal or Recon personnel would ultimately prefer. Both spend a good amount of time in the water and in wet conditions. So, why a carbon? It just didn't make a great deal of sense, but it was the knife most frequently recommended here. I believe someone even mentioned that BR is coming out with a SS version of the Bravo. I guess, that's the one I saw in the link (isn't it a SS variety?), but I'm not sure, because the ad copy says it's a limited run. So, another? I think it's a legitimate question.

I think the appearance of an agenda may work both ways. If, for example, I buy and review a knife some dislike, they freely bash it, make allegations against the manufacturer, and call me a shill - even if I bought the thing on a lark and was just pleasantly surprised with it's actual operation and performance - some might think that OK, even encourage that type of behavior. OTOH, every time someone asks for a knife recommendation, the same people chime in with a specific brand, no matter how inappropriate the application may be. Anyone who disagrees in the least is immediately held up as suspicious, having an agenda. I'm not saying that happened, here, but it easily could have, if you had not stepped in and provided some degree of even-handed clarity on the issue.

I have preferences just like any other, here, and I intend to express them as freely as any other. One should not have to be gushing with praise for specific brands to be considered above suspicion. Between the BR Bravo and the Mission MPK Ti, I'm going with the Mission. Likewise, I considered a BR for hunting this fall, but then came upon the Fallkniven TK1. I would think the fact that BR are being compared to (or considered an alternative to) what are often much more expensive knives a compliment in itself. Both the MPK Ti and TK1 will run about $100 more than the BRs I would consider. Of course, one is titanium and the other G3 powder steel. It's a preference that, provided the means, makes a great deal of sense. If my life were on the line, I would at least try to make the same choice.
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Fair enough, and good post, Halbie.
 
PG5768 said:
Thanks Lycosa. Since it sounds like the Mission titanium knives are issue items for Marine Recon, I can let the USMC take care off providing one for him.
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No military unit issues all the items that are listed as "issue". That only means they are available if the unit commander can justify their use for his team. High-dollar items and specialized items don't get handed out to everyone.

Many knife companies win a contract one time for one product, then proudly display this fact as if they are the sole supplier of knives to that branch of service. That's just creative advertising.

There is one thing we've learned from all these threads on "What knife should I give to a new soldier?" A multitool is always useful and a big, heavy, expensive knife gets left behind, lost, or stolen.

Incidently, unless the knife is going to be underwater half the day, A2 is not a bad steel for general outdoor use. Wipe it down, ignore the patina you might see, and don't worry about rust. (Disclaimer: I have a LOT of Bark Rivers! :) )
 
SMKW was offering a special offer to purchase a knife for a service person. The one I thought was interesting was the SAK, very useful in the field. This was in the last catalog that I received.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
No military unit issues all the items that are listed as "issue". That only means they are available if the unit commander can justify their use for his team. High-dollar items and specialized items don't get handed out to everyone.

Many knife companies win a contract one time for one product, then proudly display this fact as if they are the sole supplier of knives to that branch of service. That's just creative advertising.

There is one thing we've learned from all these threads on "What knife should I give to a new soldier?" A multitool is always useful and a big, heavy, expensive knife gets left behind, lost, or stolen.

Incidently, unless the knife is going to be underwater half the day, A2 is not a bad steel for general outdoor use. Wipe it down, ignore the patina you might see, and don't worry about rust. (Disclaimer: I have a LOT of Bark Rivers! :) )
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I think the Mission site says something closer to the information you provide. They have been issuing these and others, as well as the SOG 2000 (440A I think and only about $100 retail). At least, I don't think either Seals or Recon limit themselves to any one particular brand and may use a mix of multi-tools, fixed knives, and even folders.

I assume something like the Bravo-1 or Mission MPK Ti would be handed out for special purposes, when more than a tool might be required. (Did someone say, "deanimation"?) Neither are cheap and not the kind of knives you'd want these guys losing on a weekly basis.

I have two knives in A2 and they're great all around; I just wouldn't want them in the water or salt water very much. They're also much heavier than their Ti counterparts.
 
Mission's owner, the late John Moore, was a WW2 veteran. John told me that when he returned from the war, he was determined to design the ultimate soldiers knife. He succeeded. John preferred the Titanium blade.
 
lots of really nice choices here

hmm

Bravo 1 or ranger knives TFI

and a leatherman wave

Spyderco "Salt" as a pocket knife


well that was easy :)
 
J_Curd said:
A Busse is too heavy for Recon, and its not a very good combat weapon. It's neither fast nor easy to insert past a rib cage.

If he will be doing tactical entry and/or extraction, consider a CRKT Hissatsu for utility work on biological targets. It's not a utility weapon, purely for martial blade craft.
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id have to disaggree here!!! A BATAC would work fine, something rigged to wear on IBA or on a drop leg holster, and is an awesome knife!!
 
Halbie said:
I assume something like the Bravo-1 or Mission MPK Ti would be handed out for special purposes, when more than a tool might be required. (Did someone say, "deanimation"?)
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I can't find the quote right now, but I seem to remember Mike Stewart saying that the Bravo-1 was designed as strictly a utility/survival knife, with fighting not being taken into account.
 
FoxholeAtheist said:
I can't find the quote right now, but I seem to remember Mike Stewart saying that the Bravo-1 was designed as strictly a utility/survival knife, with fighting not being taken into account.
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Possibly. I don't think Mission, either, says the MPK is a fighting knife, but more a utility/survival knife. Still, why take such a big, expensive knife on a mission, if only for utility and survival? Would you really need either the BR Bravo-1 or Mission MPK for that? Would they even be the best choices within the same brand lines? In the Mission line, for example, I would think the MPF-1 the best overall utility/survival knife. I think the knives we're talking about are really multi-purpose, with one of those uses being for something more than a tool.

Besides, there aren't many who advertise their knives as primarily designed for or doubling as fighting knives, per se. I usually just give this a pass, for the obvious reasons.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
No military unit issues all the items that are listed as "issue". That only means they are available if the unit commander can justify their use for his team. High-dollar items and specialized items don't get handed out to everyone.

Many knife companies win a contract one time for one product, then proudly display this fact as if they are the sole supplier of knives to that branch of service. That's just creative advertising.

There is one thing we've learned from all these threads on "What knife should I give to a new soldier?" A multitool is always useful and a big, heavy, expensive knife gets left behind, lost, or stolen.

Incidently, unless the knife is going to be underwater half the day, A2 is not a bad steel for general outdoor use. Wipe it down, ignore the patina you might see, and don't worry about rust. (Disclaimer: I have a LOT of Bark Rivers! :) )
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Thanks Esav. I understand the part about "issue" items and marketing hype.

I think behind the recommendations for the Bravo-1 the next most recommended item is multi-tools. I know they can be very handy. I approve their purchase for my construction inspection folks all the time. I even have 4 of my own (Leatherman, Gerber, SOG, and Swisstech)..

That is what I think I'll get him as a gift. I've given the list off knife models and brands recommended so far to his dad. He's looked at many of them on-line. I'll let him make a decision on what knife his son would prefer, plus it would be a lot more meaningful coming from dad rather than a stranger.
 
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