Knives & Guns

Rick Gray-

it looks like your appreciation for wood handles knows no bounds!

Nice pair there.
 
Wow!!! I really hope you guys don’t think I’m trolling in here or anything. And I certainly don’t take any offense from your words. I know that this is a very sensitive issue. Maybe I just have a very low opinion of humanity on the whole. I don’t think humanity is ready for the power and convenience that handguns imbue. I certainly don’t mean that I stand for strict gun control. As I’ve repeated, I very much see the need for self-defense today. Pandora’s box has been opened, and we have to deal with reality as best we can. I just wish Pandora’s box hadn’t been opened in the first place.
 
Buzzbait, let me explain where I'm coming from here. About six years ago, I had a serious threat to my life going on, from specific criminals. They had defrauded a friend of mine, and I'd put up a website outlining what they'd done.

So they put out a contract on me. $10,000 to anybody putting me in the hospital and torching my motorcycle.

Now, under Calif law, if you are of "good character" and have "good cause", you can go to your PD Chief or Sheriff and plead your case, and get issued a handgun carry permit.

So I tried...and got laughed at for "trying to usurp the rightful privileges of my social betters", or at least that's how they acted.

Obviously, something was wrong with this picture. After going into hiding for a bit, I did some research, and learned that other states are "shall-issue" on gun permits, which means that as long as you jump through the hoops, you're going to score the permit and they can't even ask you about "good cause".

It sounded pretty damn radical to me, just as it does you today! So I hit the web, and found a dozen EMail addresses of street cops (who ran cop-related private websites) in "shall-issue" states like Wash State, AZ, FL, etc. I asked *them* whether or not widespread civilian handgun carry was a real threat.

They all agreed that when they run into a permitholder, they know they're dealing with a guy who is willing to pay over $150 for the permit and training and wait out a background check just LEGALLY to do something that any punk gangbanger can do whenever they want to - stick a gun under a jacket. In other words, the permitholder is the LAST guy the cops have to worry about. Sure enough, with over 5 million such permitholders running around, not one of 'em has ever shot at or shot a cop.

Ever.

Now, it ain't just me saying this. Even the liberal idiot media in the shall-issue states have been forced to admit that the shall-issue permit programs *work*. Some examples (may read better in printed form versus on-screen, depending on your monitor):
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So I can tell you with some authority that with non-discriminatory laws that don't violate or twist the right to self defense, handguns are a NET BENEFIT to society. Without them, we'd be back to the "rule of the strong" and the Middle Ages...which managed to be bloody as hell *without* guns.

Jim
 
You won't get any grief from me here. It's not the law abiding citizens I'm worried about. It's not the permit holders I'm worried about. I know lots of people with handgun permits. They're all good people. If I ever had to get a handgun, it wouldn't be to protect myself from the permit holders.

It's the damn stinking punk gang bangers I'm worried about!!!
 
Hey Jim
At least in California one has the possiblity of getting a License to carry. here in kansas there is no such animal. The only ones who can carry concealed are off duty police officers and PIs. I for one am an LEO so i do not worry about it too much . When the concealed carry law was passed by the house and senate a couple of years ago Gov Graves here in Kansas vetoed it saying he did not believe it was good for the people of Kansas . Well the people spoke Mr. Graves and who put your butt in that chair a few blocks from my house???? Well I am glad you are a lame duck this time around because you would not get my vote again buddy ..
 
I've been a gun nut longer than I've been a knife nut (about 30 seconds longer for gun nut since my head emerged first and then my arms and hands), otherwise I've been fascinated by both subjects since I can remember.

Although I own several rifles and shotguns, my primary gun passion is handgun hunting and practical pistol shooting. I have handloaded for many years. My favorite guns include three S&W 44 mags, a 454 Casull, a Sig P228 (you can have all the Glocks), and an old customized Colt Commander .45. I do have a sweet early 1960's Browning Safari in .338 that I use for meat hunting (moose). As for knives, I have all kinds, but I mostly prefer mid-sized to small fixed blades for outdoor carry. For me, a Loveless style drop point hunter is tough to beat, but I really like the Dozier Pro Guide model a lot too. Guns and knives rule. Hey, isn't that why men were invented?
 
Buzzbait: punk gangbangers are a problem mainly in "disarmament zones" with easy prey mandated by law, such as NYC. True, disarming gangbangers IS a good idea, but so is taking away their access to illegal drugs and we both know how well THAT works.

Prohibition doesn't work. We established that a long time ago.

Here's the good news: the one place on earth urban gangbangers are LEAST comfy in, is a shooting range. Ranges are generally owned or operated by ex-cops, and the younger guys helping out are mostly in the police academy or want to go soon :). PLUS there's lots of off-duty cops around. The honest gun-nuts posting in this thread have no such qualms about walking in there, which means on average we're WAY better shots than the gangbangers. That's not just theory either, there's hard evidence pointing in that direction.

Of all criminal gang types, only the "true outlaw bikers" tend to shoot somewhat straight. They head into the boonies on long trips and do enough plinking to be a threat at distances past about 10 to 15 feet.

(Sidenote: gangbangers use handguns at close range, or they "spray'n'pray". I've personally done some 50-yard shooting at torso-sized targets with a hit rate better than 75% - with a .38spl "snubbie" two inch barrel revolver.)

Royo: in going through the CCW issuance papers for the elite crowd in my county that's been issued, I came across a guy who answered "yes" to the question: "Have you ever had CCW before?".

Odd thing law, the "issuing agency" for that prior permit was "Lake County" (or "Lane?" - can't recall) OHIO.

Which is really odd because Ohio doesn't have CCW, same as Kansas.

The guy went on to explain that he had "special deputy status" with no actual law enforcement powers.

In other words, the urge to "arm aristocrats" who are wealthy, connected and do campaign contributions to the local Sheriff is SO strong that you'll see it happen even if there's no actual CCW system in place. Odds are, somewhere in Kansas there's a crooked Sheriff (or more than one) who is selling law enforcement status to the wealthy and connected. Stripping people of their basic human right to self defense is a perversion and often leads to corruption.

Jim
 
Guns came first. My Father gave me a Savage bolt action 22 cal when I turned 12. We went through the complete military drill of: "safe on the firing line" etc.,and since we had a firing range on our property, my friends got into the action, bringing over their fathers "War" brought back Lugers and USA 45 cal side arms. My first purchase of a knife was a german WW 11 fighting knife, to my father's dismay, since he spent 3 years fighting the Germans in WW11. My gun love progressed through a 20ga Winchester at 14, more 22 cals, a few small hunting knives: then as an adult I still own all of the previous items, plus my Baretta 686 for sporting clays, and my Kimber Pro Elite, A black powder Colt 44 cal revolver. Thats it for the guns. Now I am focusing on knives and have in the works, an order with MMHW for a Survival Bowie, and look forward to gaining more knives. Also, may I mention that I have a Winchester 10 Guage
Cannon. Great Fun for anyone that likes all knives, guns and things that go BANG!
 
I'm not sure I can really add anything to this discussion that has not been covered all ready and eloquently at that. I feel a need to comment on this subject though. Buzzbait, you feel that handguns in the hands of punk gangbangers is a problem, well yes it is. The problem won't get any better by taking away the handguns, if that could be done then we wouldn't have the drug problem we do in this country. If the punk can get drugs, he can get guns! You say that humanity is not ready for the power handguns impart, how do they differ from shotguns, rifles, knives and automobiles? Or nuclear weapons for that matter? Keep in mind the people that run the governments of this world! You seem to feel that handguns should be removed from society since they have no real use than to kill people. Will you feel the same when the goverments ban knives with blades longer the 3/4 inch long? Or knives completely because gangbangers started to use cheap POS knives? They are easier to obtain than guns? I disagree with your logic concerning the evils of handgun ownership. It is a lot of fun making a soda can dance as you fill it full of holes! Hunt with handguns? Most definately, I can put a .30-.30 barrel on my Thompson Contender
and go looking for deer. I feel you need to seriously reevaluate your logic regarding handguns. I could make an argument that motorized vehicles are dangerous, therefore they need to be outlawed! More people die every year from motor vehicle accidents than handguns. People kill people! Sometimes they use tools to get it done faster.
 
Buzzbait,
I'm a gun nut, knife nut, camping nut, computer nut, fishing nut, beer nut :D, and most times, just plain nuts. At one point, I was also a motorcycle nut. In a lot of ways I still am a MC nut, but havent been on one in years. My best friend, a fella that really was my best friend, more of a brother than a friend since we really were that close, was killed on a MC. It was partly his fault since he was fairly boozed up at the time (three guesses who introduced him to that?), riding a motorcycle that was just too damned much for him to be on,(750KAW) with as little exerience as he had (again, three guesses who introduced him to MCs?) Now, i could dismiss the whole thing by saying that motorcycles are dangerous, too powerful not really meant for anything but thrill riding and a whole lot of other stuff. Heck, if I say it often enough it might even make that feeling I get once in a while that I was largly responsible for his getting killed go away. Ain't true though. A motorcycle, like a .44magnum is just a piece of metal. It's always the person in control of it that carries the ultimate responsibility for how it's used.

On a lighter note and with me bein a fisherman too, the damn thing I wish that had never been invented is the Jet Ski. Either that, or they should give us fisherfolk a 3 a day bag limit on em :D Then again, it all goes back to the person in control of the machinery doesn't it? It's not the evil Jet Ski, it's the jerk driving it that has just GOT to get between me and the shore where I'm casting.
 
EasyRider - I'll say this one more time, so there are no more misconceptions. While I do not appreciate the principal of the handgun, I in no way endorse strong gun control. I never said anything about making an effort to remove the handguns from people. That just isn't a reality. I don't like broccoli either, and have no plans of launching a broccoli control campaign.

You guys may not believe this, but it is possible to not like something without waging war on it. I don't wish to see my constitutional rights taken away, I never said that I did.

Jet skis are another matter though. They are the only valid reason I can think of to own a handgun. :D
 
I in no way endorse strong gun control

A seeemingly reasonable position on the surface it depends on what sort of non-"strong" gun controls you are willing to endorse. To me the whole gun control movement is a farce, and even worst a hinderance to achieveing meaningful and effective gun control.

The various gun control Incs. are organizations established to promote themselves as organizations. As long as they continue to garnish free media time they will continue to collect funds which are then used to pay the salaries of the organization. The same can be said of the NRA. Unfortunately, they have managed to raise an issue of public policy and to position it as a philosophical division between two hostile intrest groups. Perhaps I am an optimist, but, I seriously doubt that the devide between pro and anti gun supporters is anywhere near the chasm that these organizations portray.

None of us want to be hurt, or to see others hurt, by any means including guns. Unfortunately the fear and conflict created by these organizations is preventing a constructive dialog on the issue. There are valuable things that can be done to promote firearm safety:

1) We can create a uniformed national firearms policy. Right now every state and community has its own set of rules. As a gun enthusiats I should be able to enjoy my hobby legally throughout the country. I should be able to own, use, transport, or sell my property irrespective of where I am standing anywhere within the country. Right now, if my employer were to move its operations to another state I might have to choose between quiting, giving up my hobby, or risking a felony conviction. There is something fundamentally wrong with that picture.

2) Despite popular opinion gun owners are not the scum of the earth. They are your neighbors, in every walk of life, and fellow supporters in whatever else you do. I would like to register ever gun in the country in the same way we register automobiles, real estate, and other major property items. I just don't know if I have the guts to do so. By the same token I would like my property rights with respect to guns treated with the same respect alloted to other property rights. If my gun is stolen I would like to know that it will be returned to me when recovered and I should be given the opportunity to take civil action against the person(s) who stole my property. Right now my prized collectible may turn up someplace only to be melted down into slag for propaganda purposes. Cooperation is a two way street.

3) The fearmongers have to be realed in on both sides of the issue. It is pure folly to attempt to childproof the world. People will get hurt, accidentally or intentionally, irrespective of anything we do - this has always been the case with all products. We can potentially reduce the number of gun injuries through training, and by encouraging people to make more informed choices.

No, everyone does not need a gun. If you are fortunate enough to live in a relatively safe area, and you do not enjoy guns sufficiently to make the commitment to learn about operating them safely, then perhaps you should not own a gun. By the same token we need to remove the negative stigma associated with gun ownership. I am convinced that there are many gun owners out there who own a gun for self defense, but are so self conscious about having one, that they are afraid to go out and obtain proper instruction in its use. No, criminals do not lurk behind evry tree; and, No gun ownership is not indicative of a low life borderline crackpot.

4) Clearly the media has to develop some maturity. Our First Amendment rights have never given us the right to "yell fire in a crowded auditorium". Yet, that is essentially what they are doing by creating a near panic over criminal activity. If you are like me then you probably invest less than a fraction of a percent of your day in concern over personal criminal risk. But the media somehow manages to invest most of its air time to sensational criminal activities. It might sell, but it distorts reality, and fosters unrealistic and dangerous level of social anxiety.

We have the opportunity to grow. And, we will do so once we take steps to tone down the rhetoric.

==========================================

Oh, and yes, I was a born gun knut long before I became an official knife knut. There is nothing like a well tuned Colt Gold Cup 45, and it goes so well with my Randall. :)


N2S
 
Yah. I guess I better elaborate on my concept of gun control. I'm all for a waiting period on handgun purchases. It doesn't seem to cause a whole lot of hassle for the purchaser, and eliminates that "pissed off purchaser" possibility. Background checks are obvious.

I may not be popular in this opinion, but I'd really like to see a gun course become mandatory for first time purchasers. They complete the course, and then get the gun. That may be wishful thinking, but I can wish.
 
How about a waiting period for first time purchasers only. If I am that PO'd would I really run to the store to buy a new gun, or just shoot the SOB with the gun on hand.

The wiating period and the background checks have to be reasonable, I would really hate to loose our traditional weekend gun show - which I suspect is the key objective on the agendas of many you support these measures. Right now many of the measures are being applied in a punative manner. I don't think anyone is opposed to doing these things, but it should be quick, thorough, effective and inexpensive. Commit to getting it working with the efficiency of a credit card validation and much of the resistence will go away. Charge law abiding citizens hundreds of dollars per gun, and then delay the process by months and the resistence will continue.

N2S
 
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