Knives Made in China thoughts?

We live in a global economy, grandpa. Pride in your country has nothing to do with where the things you buy are made.

We live in a broken global economy, Son. The US exported it's jobs to China and is now suffering the consequences. I have nothing against the Chinese people or their knives, however, being old enough to experience the 50's and 60's era, I see things from a bit higher perspective. Oh yes, pride in your country has everything to do with where the products you purchase are manufactured, IMHO.
 
Pride in your country has nothing to do with where the things you buy are made.

Not what I said, I'll rephrase: I feel obligated and am proud to redistribute my pay received from my fellow countrymen to other fellow countrymen when I can.
 
I work construction and spend a lot of my down time in the timber. I will not carry a china made product with me in the wilderness, although at work I am abusive with my pocket knife and they are usually a china made product. Mostly because they are less expensive and I know I'm going to be hard on them. In my personal experience between CRKT, Kershaw, Benchmade, and Spyderco I have found Benchmade and Spyderco to be the most reliable in that order. CRKT and Kershaw are fine knives and hold an edge well, I have found that the blades will snap very easy though. Just my opinion.
 
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Can you please tell me who in the knife world doesn't copy the old standard patterns? Trapper, sunfish, Whittler, Stockman etc! I made hand made folders for years & coppied all the old patterns - Thats what my clients wanted! Do you really think someone has a pantent on the "Trapper Pattern" - Tom

I thought that was funny too. LOL

There really aren't any new basic designs, all knives are based off of or variations of designs that have been around for hundreds or even thousands of years.

The only real difference today is there are laws that tell us this and that ect and that gives people things to complain about... And keeps the lawyers in business.

The basics are still there and always will be and that will never change.

So when someone complains about a copied design I really don't put much stock in that because that design they are talking about was based off of another design and that one was based off of one before that ect all the way back.

The real original people who thought up the basics are long gone and dead and everyone copied off of those people.

A "manufacturer's design" is copyrighted or patented and may not be copied without consent, any other use is theft. If you pickup a knife that says, Spyderco, Benchmade Cold Steel, etc or has their logo or comes in a box that has their name, it should be genuine not a knockoff.

Just to be clear, I am talking about knock off knives made and packaged using a legitimate manufacturer's brand name, logo, locks and designs. Read some threads here and on manufacture's forums about fakes and counterfeit knives. These are knives made specifically to be copies or very similar to current production knives, including the real manufacturer's logo on the knife and put it in a box that also copies or mimics the real manufacturer's packaging.

I modified my post to:

"Con: Chinese knife manufactures produce copies of other manufacturer's designs, including trade marks, logos and packaging. In a word, theft."
 
A "manufacturer's design" is copyrighted or patented and may not be copied without consent, any other use is theft. If you pickup a knife that says, Spyderco, Benchmade Cold Steel, etc or has their logo or comes in a box that has their name, it should be genuine not a knockoff.

Just to be clear, I am talking about knock off knives made and packaged using a legitimate manufacturer's brand name, logo, locks and designs. Read some threads here and on manufacture's forums about fakes and counterfeit knives. These are knives made specifically to be copies or very similar to current production knives, including the real manufacturer's logo on the knife and put it in a box that also copies or mimics the real manufacturer's packaging.

I modified my post to:

"Con: Chinese knife manufactures produce copies of other manufacturer's designs, including trade marks, logos and packaging. In a word, theft."

You are still incorrect unless you specify that the manufacturers' designs of particular knives have been copyrighted -- which would be unusual for a mass-produced item rather than a custom knife. A trademark is something entirely different from a copyright. Copied trademarks (e.g., the Spyderco spider mark) and unlicensed use of patents (i.e. for a mechanism like an AXIS lock) are distinctly different types of intellectual property and should not be confused in any way with copyright.

In short, a knife manufacturer anywhere that produces a knife that looks like another manufacturer's knife is not violating any law unless: (1) the design of the knife has been copyrighted (and the copy is exact enough to count as a "copy" and not something similar); (2) some trademark has been misapplied (i.e., the knife is an intentional counterfeit); or (3) some patented intellectual property is being used in an unlicensed way.

The knives I buy from Sanrenmu, Navy and Ganzo do none of those things.
 
You are still incorrect unless you specify that the manufacturers' designs of particular knives have been copyrighted -- which would be unusual for a mass-produced item rather than a custom knife. A trademark is something entirely different from a copyright. Copied trademarks (e.g., the Spyderco spider mark) and unlicensed use of patents (i.e. for a mechanism like an AXIS lock) are distinctly different types of intellectual property and should not be confused in any way with copyright.

In short, a knife manufacturer anywhere that produces a knife that looks like another manufacturer's knife is not violating any law unless: (1) the design of the knife has been copyrighted (and the copy is exact enough to count as a "copy" and not something similar); (2) some trademark has been misapplied (i.e., the knife is an intentional counterfeit); or (3) some patented intellectual property is being used in an unlicensed way.

The knives I buy from Sanrenmu, Navy and Ganzo do none of those things.

Navy, pure as wind driven snow, right.

NavyE3-4fake1.jpg


http://images.huangyuxiang.org/ebay/navy/k-631xilie.jpg
 
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Unless you're privy to the contractual relations between Navy and Spyderco, you can't really know can you? Point me to a statement from Spyderco, warning buyers about Navy copies, and that would be proof. But with Spyderco contracting with China manufacturers as OEM suppliers, you can't know the particulars of any deal. As I've noted before, a contractual provision that would permit a Chinese manufacturer working for Spyderco to use Spyderco models but not market directly in the US could profit both companies.
 
A "manufacturer's design" is copyrighted or patented and may not be copied without consent, any other use is theft. If you pickup a knife that says, Spyderco, Benchmade Cold Steel, etc or has their logo or comes in a box that has their name, it should be genuine not a knockoff.

Just to be clear, I am talking about knock off knives made and packaged using a legitimate manufacturer's brand name, logo, locks and designs. Read some threads here and on manufacture's forums about fakes and counterfeit knives. These are knives made specifically to be copies or very similar to current production knives, including the real manufacturer's logo on the knife and put it in a box that also copies or mimics the real manufacturer's packaging.

I modified my post to:

"Con: Chinese knife manufactures produce copies of other manufacturer's designs, including trade marks, logos and packaging. In a word, theft."

That's different that what most of us were talking about. ;)

Counterfeit is a lot different that just making a knife that looks similar......

Big difference in making a knife that looks kinda like some other knife or knives and making one and putting the Companies logos on it to sell a counterfeit knife.

In the end even that is none of anyone's business except the said companies and their Lawyers.

Other than that it's just people looking for something to spout off and complain about or make themselves feel important..... In short.... Drama Queens....

People should really mind their own business and stay out of things that don't involve them directly unless they are looking for drama...

Their opinions don't mean crap to anyone except other Drama Queens and never will in the big picture because there is nothing they can do that will make one bit of difference in the real world.
 
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Unless you're privy to the contractual relations between Navy and Spyderco, you can't really know can you? Point me to a statement from Spyderco, warning buyers about Navy copies, and that would be proof. But with Spyderco contracting with China manufacturers as OEM suppliers, you can't know the particulars of any deal. As I've noted before, a contractual provision that would permit a Chinese manufacturer working for Spyderco to use Spyderco models but not market directly in the US could profit both companies.

Right and Santa Claus could be real. Since you are defending them you must be familiar with such an agreement, please do share it with us.

And yes, it is a known problem, this Bladeforum discussion include concern with knock offs:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/796442-Spyderco-Fakes-amp-Knock-Offs-Info

After you read that thread, if you continue to insist on that fake, knock off and flat counterfeit knives are OK, I doubt any form of proof will change your mind.
 
That's different that what most of us were talking about. ;)

Counterfeit is a lot different that just making a knife that looks similar......

Big difference in making a knife that looks kinda like some other knife or knives and making one and putting the Companies logos on it to sell a counterfeit knife.

In the end even that is none of anyone's business except the said companies and their Lawyers.

Other than that it's just people looking for something to spout off and complain about or make themselves feel important..... In short.... Drama Queens....

People should really mind their own business and stay out of things that don't involve them directly unless they are looking for drama...

Their opinions don't mean crap to anyone except other Drama Queens and never will in the big picture because there is nothing they can do that will make one bit of difference in the real world.

After reading this post, I see your point, "...opinions don't mean crap to anyone..."
 
After reading this post, I see your point, "...opinions don't mean crap to anyone..."


It's always amusing to see people get all bent out of shape over things that don't concern them, it's always entertaining to see all that energy wasted on nothing. ;)

Like a bunch of women in a sewing bee.....
 
actually, you can't really blame chinese in some counterfeit cases. It's all about exchange rate between us dollar and chinese currency. For example, edgepro, a well designed sharpener, is about $200 here. But it's a ridiculous price if you want to sell it in china since waterstone is like 1 dollar a piece there. So it's understandable that you can't stop them to copy it and sell it at $15. On the other hand, this exchange rate is the exact reason that walmart could keep such a low price on almost everything. All being said, it's hard to tell who got the better end of the deal, china or us?
 
We live in a broken global economy, Son. The US exported it's jobs to China and is now suffering the consequences. I have nothing against the Chinese people or their knives, however, being old enough to experience the 50's and 60's era, I see things from a bit higher perspective. Oh yes, pride in your country has everything to do with where the products you purchase are manufactured, IMHO.

We live in a free market, Old man. The US exported it's job to China because USA could not keep up with the demand, and overhead for many products and to be plain jane. Most USA companies are and have been becoming complacent and incompetent.
If USA cannot keep up the quality, price, and the supply then it does NOT deserve the consumer's business even if it's in the consumers are in the same country.
Tough luck.
 
Right and Santa Claus could be real. Since you are defending them you must be familiar with such an agreement, please do share it with us.

And yes, it is a known problem, this Bladeforum discussion include concern with knock offs:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/796442-Spyderco-Fakes-amp-Knock-Offs-Info

After you read that thread, if you continue to insist on that fake, knock off and flat counterfeit knives are OK, I doubt any form of proof will change your mind.

I am familiar with that thread, which contains a mix of clear counterfeits and the kind of copies we were discussing from Navy. You can't confuse the two. A counterfeit using a known trademark is wrong. A similar design may appear unfair, but as I already pointed out unless you know the contractual relationships that might exist (which ordinary posters here do not) you don't know if the copy is permitted or is not permitted.

If any principal with actual knowledge cares to weigh in, I'm interested. If you're just another uninformed guy with an axe to grind and an unhealthy and overused sense of outrage, your opinion is worthless.
 
I am familiar with that thread, which contains a mix of clear counterfeits and the kind of copies we were discussing from Navy. You can't confuse the two. A counterfeit using a known trademark is wrong. A similar design may appear unfair, but as I already pointed out unless you know the contractual relationships that might exist (which ordinary posters here do not) you don't know if the copy is permitted or is not permitted.

If any principal with actual knowledge cares to weigh in, I'm interested. If you're just another uninformed guy with an axe to grind and an unhealthy and overused sense of outrage, your opinion is worthless.

So you have nothing but your opinion, thanks for your input.
 
In the line at the store, the cashier told an older woman that she
should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for
the environment.

The woman apologized to him and explained, "We didn't have the green
thing back in my day."

The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not
care enough to save our environment."

He was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to
the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and
sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over.
So they really were recycled.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store
and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb
into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the
throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling
machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry the
clothes. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters,
not always brand-new clothing.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every
room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember
them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana .

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have
electric machines to do everything for us.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used a wadded up
old newspaper to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the
lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by
working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills
that operate on electricity.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or
a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we
replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole
razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes
to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi
service.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to
power a dozen appliances.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from
satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza
joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how
wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing
back then?
 
In the line at the store, the cashier told an older woman that she
should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for
the environment.

The woman apologized to him and explained, "We didn't have the green
thing back in my day."

The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not
care enough to save our environment."

He was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to
the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and
sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over.
So they really were recycled.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store
and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb
into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the
throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling
machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry the
clothes. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters,
not always brand-new clothing.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every
room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember
them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana .

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have
electric machines to do everything for us.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used a wadded up
old newspaper to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the
lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by
working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills
that operate on electricity.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or
a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we
replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole
razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes
to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi
service.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to
power a dozen appliances.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from
satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza
joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how
wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing
back then?

Very good post!!! :thumbup:

Paul
 
Smith and wesion for the cheap knife you cant beat the price and it is made in china. The name brand knife that is made in china is pretty good. The china knifes are junk that are not name brand. Paul chein is made in china and I think it is it is really it is really good.
It depends on who makes who makes them.
 
In the line at the store, the cashier told an older woman that she
should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for
the environment.

Ill go along each post when you started your green thing.

1. Thats a good point, and valid were not not lacking critical information. That is still done in Mexico, because bottles unfortunately are expensive to make in Mexico and it's cheaper to recycle, after all high potency cleaners and highly toxic chemicals (the fumes released into the atmosphere, mind you) are much cheaper to apply for cleaning then to run recycling centers. Recycling centers cost money, and they cost a lot.
However back to reality most bottles are recycled, from aluminum to glass bottles. They are just done so in a more hygienic fashion by actually heating the bottles up to the point of melting, meaning no bacteria or toxic fumes form cleaning chemicals.
http://earth911.com/recycling/glass/facts-about-glass-recycling/
But yes you are right, you guys were environmentally friendly.
2. You walked up the stairs painted with non environmentally (pre 1977), or how about toxic housing with abestos?
But yes you are right, you guys were environmentally friendly.
3. This is completely ignorant. If you look at charts you will see MPG ratings to be fairly flat when talking about say 1970s to today. Most cars have similar MPG as before. The thing that has changed is modern cars have less emissions (and less harmful ones at that) then older vehicles. Cars from the old were actually far more environmentally hazardous due to the emissions.
Lastly yes we have 300 hp street cars but t's using a highly efficient engine using the same volume/cylinder as an 1980's car would with the same volume size and cylinder count but an older less efficient design (cylinder volume=Liters (2.3L or 3.3L) Cylinder count= 6 cylinders, 4 cylinders etc).
But yes you are right, you guys were environmentally friendly.
4. People still wash babies dippers, I was born in 1989 and my mother washed my diapers. We did not have the money for disposable dipers (they are EXPENSIVE). Even now a days parents have both disposable and cloth diapers, sometimes they can't afford disposables so we used cloths. This is stupidly irrelevant, this has to do more with economic viability then anything.
5. One TV... yes you are right but lets look at the numbers:
Energy efficiency has increased greatly just this decade alone from going from CRT to LCD, for example my 22" 1920x1080 e-IPS Dell u2211H uses merely 22 watts of power while my 19" CRT uses approximately 85 watts of power. No? Okay how about a 27" 40w tv vs a 42" LCD@around 110W (This CRT is from 1998 or 1999 ~ iirc Sony brand).
No okay lets talk REALLY old, like before CRT's.
If I recall correctly an older Tube TV would of been closer to around 300 Watts of power or more during their first introduction. These are averages:
http://www.oksolar.com/technical/consumption.html
Television, Color (Tube): 286w
Television, Color (Solid state): 175w
Television, B & W (Tube): 100w (small as hell)
Television, B & W (Solid State): 45w (small as hell)

Now adays most TV's use around 100W or less:
http://reviews.cnet.com/green-tech/tv-consumption-chart/
If you get down to it, you can get some really nice TV's that use under 60W of power while offering nearly 2x-4x the screen size from old TV's.

I think at 20w-60w we can afford to have multiple TV's and one large 100w television compared to just a single 286w for a single old Tube TV.

6. Fair enough I suppose. Good point. We do need to do more hand preparation, imo not for the environment but for our health.
7. And often saw broken stuff arrive at the house. Also you guys also didn't have anywhere near the same volume of freight going from one place to another. Hmm maybe newspaper companies should just become shipment padding companies to comply with the ways of old. Oh wait... you guys didnt have widely distributed recycling centers back then, wonder what happened to all the paper. :P
8. uhmm fair enough although I will saw my lawn mower may consume maybe but $8 of gas every once in a while. Maybe if you worked for 30 cents an hour (average back in the day), sure mowing the lawn was required. Although now a days that time we save mowing the lawn can be put to other tasks, like hey creating electric cars to make up for the gasoline we just used! Genius idea!
9. Provided you had a school near you to attend to, you are right :P.... School buses, and cars helped bring kids far away from school to school. This is so silly, I swear.
10. Hmm we have relatives in Mexico living like that. Trust me much better to have those appliances you speak of. Saves time, and in the end saves energy and money.
11. Yeah you didnt have the pizza joint, nor the COUNTLESS medical achievements done through molecular folding computation, nor the power to defend a nation using Anti-RPG systems that compute trajectory/ minimize near by casualties, nor a limitless number of other important accomplishment, nor clean running water (sorry computers do that :P)

Exactly wasteful people of old.
 
(...) But we didn't have the green thing back in our day. (...)

Bravo! Well said, sir! :thumbup:

These days, the three 'R's are: reduce, reuse and recycle. Note how 'recycle' comes at the end; it's not enough to feel good about one's environmental efforts just because you toss a soda can in the recycling bin instead of the trash can... especially if you turn around and buy a case or two of plastic bottled water every month. Just saying...
 
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