Knives made in Taiwan & China

[Padawan]

Am I just prejudiced? Are they they making OK knives.

In this instance, it would seem that you are. Yes, knives like Taiwanese Benchmades and Chinese Byrds are very good (not just "okay") knives. Of course not every knife made in Taiwan or China, or anywhere else in the world, is great. The point is that the stamp of a certain country of manufacture shouldn't (and can't) be used as a sole indicator of that knife's quality.

Help me out, do you all worry about these things.

Not at all. I simply use and enjoy the knives.

 

[allenC]

The politics of the matter cannot be ignored....

Japan was a defeated nation after WWII, as was Germany and Italy.
The USA help to rebuild and reshape those nations, and they have been out allies every since.

But China is no friend to the USA.
The Vietnam war was not so long ago, and the only reason that the USA lost that war was because of China.

 

[deathdueusapart]

well if we didn't go into vietnam that wouldn't have happend now would it. i find it amazing that USA feels the need to spread its influence all over the world but tries to prevent other countries from doing so. china was already boxed it at that point, we had control/support of Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, and the Phillipines. there were barely any more space that china could have spread its influence. we fought a nation that has been fighting for its freedom for decades and it was on their turf. plus, during the 3rd indochina war, vietnam successfully defended it self against china. also, according to your theory, the only reason we won our independence was due to France, but hey they were on the same side during both world wars!

 

[Redguy]

well if we didn't go into vietnam that wouldn't have happend now would it. i find it amazing that USA feels the need to spread its influence all over the world but tries to prevent other countries from doing so. china was already boxed it at that point, we had control/support of Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, and the Phillipines. there were barely any more space that china could have spread its influence. we fought a nation that has been fighting for its freedom for decades and it was on their turf. plus, during the 3rd indochina war, vietnam successfully defended it self against china. also, according to your theory, the only reason we won our independence was due to France, but hey they were on the same side during both world wars!

Err... That's nice. So what do you think, which one holds an edge longer with the same bladeprofile, Byrd's 8Cr13MoV or the AUS-8 from Cold Steel?

 

[allenC]

also, according to your theory, the only reason we won our independence was due to France, but hey they were on the same side during both world wars!

Way off topic, but....

Yes, I do believe that had it not been for France the colonists would have lost the war for their independence.

 

[James Y]

Like any other country, China can produce knives ranging from very good to crap. Believe it or not, I have owned some USA-made knives that were made terribly!

That said, I have to say that I, too, tend to feel a bit weird about buying a knife made in China, at least a folder. Yes, I tend to favor knives made in USA, Japan, Switzerland, and Taiwan. Taiwan does make some very good stuff. I really do not put China and Taiwan in the same category as far as knives go, though most people tend to lump the two together. I lived in Taiwan for nearly 8 years.

CRKT makes some nice stuff, though I haven't bought one of their products for a long time. Their My Tighe folder looks and feels very nice. I have a couple of the Red-Class Benchmades, and they are very well-made Taiwan knives, particularly the Monochrome. I like their USA knives in general much better, but that's because I like particular the designs themselves better.

I like most of my Seki-made knives a lot, but sometimes wonder if the warranty for possible repair for them is as valid here as it would be if the knives were USA-made; I feel the same for Taiwan-made. Perhaps the main warranty work would be replacement of a model instead of repair in such cases. I have an Al Mar Sere 2K with a defective ball detent and hesitate to send it in for repair as my admittedly only one attempt at contacting the company proved futile.
Jim

 

[a223cat]

Yes back then the French brought us arms and knives too! Did China ever give us Knives? Only thru WalMart!

 

[Ultraman]

My opinion only:

There was similar dread and foreboding when Japan was becoming economically dominant. However, they stumbled too (ex. their housing bubble and recession) and the fear of world dominance never really occurred, so such a trajectory can be expected for any emerging economic power.

I can easily understand the unease with China's economic rise, but it may not necessarily translate to military aggression. Although it's better to be ready (walk softly and carry a big stick), China is too spread out and too far behind learning the ropes of modern economies that I don't know how inevitable a negative scenario is. In fact, a lot of mainland chinese want to learn more and adopt western culture. Heck, corrupt them with Hollywood, video games, fast food, and the internet and we can declare ourselves the winners (frawress victory )

Back to their knives: I'm not worried - I see innovation and quality in many US knife makers and the rest of the world pines for US knives. Having a choice between US or China or Taiwan makes us better off (at least for us consumers). As for companies going out of business, I don't really know all the reasons, but isn't it a conscious executive choice to outsource for a variety of reasons such as cheap labor, larger talent pool, lower taxes or a currency lag as mentioned before?

 

[GMT+7]

Hi HVR,

As money markets change in connection with that technology and materials knowledge, there seems to be a lag in valuation. Whether it's the Japanese Yen going from 350 to 105 (15 years) or the Euro going from 80 to 125 (4 years), some country at any given time is going to have a pricing advantage, for a while. Right now it's China.

Sal, I beg to differ on one point. The first two currencies you mentioned were both free floating, 'market' currencies, responding to free market pressures. The Chinese Yuan is NOT free floating and is 100% controlled by the Chinese government. This is what has the U.S. Commerce Dept. all up in arms about our trade defecit with them. It's not likely to change by market forces, rather political (sanctions, tariffs, etc.) forces by the western world economic powers.

On the quality issue, Taiwan has followed the Japanese in terms of quality and (higher) prices. They made an effort to reach that level. IMHO the Chinese are enjoying their low-end market niche (a very large niche I might add) and with few exceptions (aerospace is one) they are not trying to improve materials or quality. After all, it's not brain surgery to use quality materials and they certainly know how to implement QC when they want to, vis-a-vie their joint ventures with Boeing, etc.

Don't underestimate them, they know exactly where they want to be now, tomorrow and in another 5,000 years.

 

[shadowknives]

Hope this discussion opens back up. I am in America and am a knifemaker that used to make knives for Blackie Collins (or whichever company he sold the patent to) and many others, but as stated, EVERYTHING is being made overseas now. It is hard to keep a family fed if all your work went away!

Please folks, buy American-made. Many others like me try to keep costs down so people will continue to buy items marked "made in the USA"

 

[cockroachfarm]

.....They are setting themselves up to become the dominant world power, and this will happen soon.....

OT, maybe...but: My wife is a foreign investment consultant for the Ontario government. About 15 years ago, she accompanied me to Hong Kong on business for my advertising agency. While we were there, we met with one of her clients, a female executive in the manufacturing sector. During the conversation (I don't remember exactly what elicited the comment), this woman said: "You know we are going to take you over." No sarcasm, no malice. She was simply stating a fact.

Scary. (and considering what is happening in Toronto over the past 10 years, so prophetic.)

 

[shadowknives]

I think that there are some fine knives being made in Taiwan.
And even China is getting better and better.

HOWEVER....I cannot deny that there is a certain pride in carrying a knife that is made in the USA.

There's no denying that the Taiwanese and Chinese are beginning to make some very presentable knives; however, I wish there were more people like you that would really be true to the USA. All the talk about how we support our US Military to do their jobs, no matter where in the world, but it would be really nice if the US Citizens would be true to the USA in all ways- US manufacturers included....be it one knife at a time or hundreds.

 

[Ultraman]

Sal, I beg to differ on one point. The first two currencies you mentioned were both free floating, 'market' currencies, responding to free market pressures. The Chinese Yuan is NOT free floating and is 100% controlled by the Chinese government. This is what has the U.S. Commerce Dept. all up in arms about our trade defecit with them. It's not likely to change by market forces, rather political (sanctions, tariffs, etc.) forces by the western world economic powers.

That's an interesting point. From my layman's view, countries whose currencies are insulated from free market forces by the government are in for a world of hurt if for some reason it is adjusted to an international standard (the US dollar). I might be getting this wrong, but I believe if the yuan ends up being overvalued then it sets things up for inflation where the price of goods go up and their paper money is abundant and does not purchase as much. I really think this is a weak point and a potential factor for downfall, aside from other reasons like brain drain and internal political conflict between their political system and their younger generation of progressives (I guess that's what you can call them). I also think the previous points about China's historical reticence or disinterest is spot on. I don't know if this characterization applies to Tibet, however.

 

[hotwriter]

Right now the Chinese appear to specialize in mass-produced knives made of low - to medium-grade steel and commensurate overall quality. My area is combat knives, and for those, whether fixed blade or folders, there is simply no comparison: The best American knives are the best anywhere. Strider, Emerson, and a number of other knife makers create knives based on actual military expererience. Busse is an artist and obsessed with quality. Chris Reeves is a class act. It's no accident that you need to wait more than three years to own a Randall. There is simply nothing to compare with these makers in China--or even in Europe. I once dabbled in Italian switchblades. But compared to knives by Darrell Ralph, Microtech, and many others, they are a joke.

 

[shecky]

Sal, I beg to differ on one point. The first two currencies you mentioned were both free floating, 'market' currencies, responding to free market pressures. The Chinese Yuan is NOT free floating and is 100% controlled by the Chinese government. This is what has the U.S. Commerce Dept. all up in arms about our trade defecit with them. It's not likely to change by market forces, rather political (sanctions, tariffs, etc.) forces by the western world economic powers.

This is an interesting point, but it's not terribly critical. That the yuan is so highly regulated still works in favor of China's foreign consumers (that's us). It's kind of like the Chinese government is subsidizing goods for us. Their loss, our gain.

There's no denying that the Taiwanese and Chinese are beginning to make some very presentable knives; however, I wish there were more people like you that would really be true to the USA. All the talk about how we support our US Military to do their jobs, no matter where in the world, but it would be really nice if the US Citizens would be true to the USA in all ways- US manufacturers included....be it one knife at a time or hundreds.

No offense to you, but you're basically asking for voluntary welfare. I understand that knifemaking is a tough business, but who ever said it would be otherwise? The thing is, knifemaking as a skill is hardly rocket science. US based makers face competition from some of the most backward third world societies on the planet. A plea to preserve such a industry is effectively a plea to keep from facing improvement through competition. Imagine asking folks to stop buying cars so that the blacksmith trade won't go extinct. In the end, you're left behind with poorer goods that cost more money.

Knifemaking as a craft, however, is as viable as a maker is creative enough to carve out a niche. Competition is still tough, but this is where US-based makers will increasingly find a market and can even thrive.

 

[knifepuppet]

As to knife making, China is one of the greatest countries with longest history in the researching field of relative high- or low-end technologies. But truth talks. Cold weapons had been defeated by fire ones again and again, besides the large amount of population, China's government almost forbidded the porducing of knives and other cold weapons for the sake of the international and inside security. Therefore low demand of markets limited the development of the application of Chinese highend knifemaking. I do have seen several highend knives with brilliant tough bone mading China.

 

[Ultraman]

knifepuppet,

Could you tell us the brand names of the knives you mention (with bone handles? I am curious as to what the high end brands are over there. By the way, I came across this article about a region in China known for a particular style or brand of pocketknife, the Xinjiang Shaya Pocket Knife:

http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/2866/2006/05/25/168@94884.htm

Is this just advertising or is this a known product for the region?

Thanks!

 

[cpixelante]

Don't get me wrong, I think China is a great country. Throughout history, they are probably the greatest country. The United States is just a blip on their timeline, which goes back more than 5000 years. I am 100% certain that the Chinese national ambition is not limited to manufacturing goods for the rest of the world cheaply. They are setting themselves up to become the dominant world power, and this will happen soon.

Historically speaking, the Chinese people are not aggressors. They are not colonialists to any large degree. They do not start wars with other countries. But make no mistake, they will begin to dominate the world economically as well as militarily. They will be able to steamroll other nations that oppose their will.
I think the Communist regime is basically communist in name only these days, the communist experiment was proven a failure years ago and the Chinese are smart enough to see this. They are full-throttle capitalists these days, still in the early stages where they are not afraid to treat their workers like dirt. The Chinese are taking over, whether we like it or not. It makes no practical difference if you or I refuse to by Chinese made knives. They make everything else as well. Your TV, your computer, your dishes, your silverware, your furniture, your children's toys, etc. etc.all made in China.
While you are sitting at your desks, pick up the stuff you have in arms' reach, flip it over to see where it was made. I count 15 items on my desktop alone. That's not counting the computer, I just noticed the keyboard is Chinese, the mouse, the monitor, the pen tablet, the printer the CPU...China China China.

THANK YOU. Finally someone I can agree with on all counts. I also agree with allenC.

I think Chinese products (products from Taiwan don't seem to have this problem) have a difficult-to-shake reputation for being shoddy and poorly made (setting aside the politics). This was probably true at some point, but one has to admit that it IS getting better. They still make trash disposable knives, but who doesn't (I was about to say which country doesn't, until I realized how silly this whole basing the quality of knives on their geological location of manufacturing).

"Indeed, the biggest problem would be for China to start acting like the US. However, they have very little history of venturing far outside their borders, and are far more prosperous with happy trading partners than as bitter aggressors. The sooner Americans avoid all the commie talk and start acting like a free market once again, the better off we'll all be.

As far as quality, the Chinese are perfectly capable of producing fine cutlery. The reason they don't is because their resources and low labor costs are better suited to filling low end niche rather than high end. Few consumers would be willing to pay $150 for a Chinese knife, even if it were worth that much and on par with any US made knife. No sense trying to compete with high end goods when they can more easily compete on the low end."

My god yes I agree.

 

[JNieporte]

I can speak only of the knives I own. I have all of the G-10 Byrd knives, all of which are made in China. They're all a steal for the $20-$26 price range. They all lock up solid. They all have good steel. They all come out of the box very sharp, and can be made sharp enough to shave with after about 2 minutes on a crock stick.

I also have the entire "set" of Kabar / Dozier folders, all made in Taiwan. Again, they're a steal at $20. All of the ones I've owned came out of the box shaving sharp.

 

[msiley]

I can speak only of the knives I own. I have all of the G-10 Byrd knives, all of which are made in China. They're all a steal for the $20-$26 price range. They all lock up solid. They all have good steel. They all come out of the box very sharp, and can be made sharp enough to shave with after about 2 minutes on a crock stick.

I also have the entire "set" of Kabar / Dozier folders, all made in Taiwan. Again, they're a steal at $20. All of the ones I've owned came out of the box shaving sharp.

I agree... The knives should stand on their own merits... and that's it.
All the political bantering is silly since no one can predict
the future. Did we think 20 years ago we'd be in a war with Iraq?
Did we even think 20 years ago that the Soviet Union would dissolve?

Vote with your wallets for the best knife. This will allow
knives to continue to increase in quality and value.
Everything else will take care of itself.