Knives vs. writing utensils.

[Jiantbrane2]

I've been thinking about this alot lately, and the "I don't get it" thread reminded me that I need to post it.
Everyone here has knives that MOST people would consider too expensive. We think them to be worthy of their prices. Some people carry $300 pens. Here's how I see it:

Performance: Our Benchmades, Spydercos, Microtechs, etc. "outperform" the small SAK's carried by others. This is incontrovertible. They don't think such "performance" is necessary. We do. Those expensive pens may very well preform many times better than the ones I use for school. I don't know; I've never used one.

Features: Our knives have rocker bars, liner locks, Axis Locks, Rolling Locks, Securlocks, and integral/monolocks. They have disks, spacers, stop pins, bearings, liners, thumbstuds, and opening holes, not to mention about a bazillion other doohickeys. Those pens probably have pretty nifty stuff on them. Again, I don't know.

I'm gonna skip to the point, as you guys probably follow so far. I write ALOT more than I cut. If I never used a pencil/pen again, and continued to use knives as I do for the rest of my life, I would still have written alot mroe than I hace cut. In fact, I consider myself to BE a WRITER (still in high school, but a writer nonetheless). I still cannot convince myself that the expensive pens truly warrant their high prices. Do you feel the same way? Is mine a case of ignorance of the "pen industry", or is the knife really a phalic extension to the average man?

Howie

 

[Elvislives]

Interesting point (pun intended)

I would imagine many of the expensive knives bought either never cut, or spend the most of their lives cutting open boxes, packages, and letters. It all comes down to the gadget factor in my opinion.

I think of a particular executive I worked for who carried a $1200 Sterling MontBlanc. It was purely status, having the neatest "gadget" of a pen. For goodness sake he only used the bloody thing to sign his name, never to actually write anyting important (not that he didn't think his name was important). But the ability to reach in his pocket and fetch out that fine writing instrument, the sound the cap made coming off, and the scratch of the nib as the ink was spread across the paper, it was gadget appeal I'm sure.

I'm no different. My working knives are two little Case XX's that I use to carve. My other "Gadget" knives are just cool to whip out when I need to open a box, package, or letter.

I've read from people who use their knives in working situations, probably mostly LEO & Armed Forces. To them these knives were intended. For the rest of us, Gadget Appeal.

Brandon

[This message has been edited by Elvislives (edited 01-09-2000).]

 

[Paracelsus]

Originally posted by Howie Lintz:
Is mine a case of ignorance of the "pen industry", or is the knife really a phalic extension to the average man?

Howie

Laughing out loud Howie! Good one. Ever hear about apples and oranges? Er, make that bananas and qumquots?.

Seriously however, I think some of same sort of thinking that goes into an appreciation for fine knives is why some of us like fine pens. Or wine. Or cars. Or Stereos. or Books, etc.

Good luck with your writing. I wish I'd concentrated more on writing instead of talking when I was your age.

Paracelsus, Mystic Shaman of the Terrible Ironic Horde and Bad Speeler

Disclaimer of All responsibility and Malice Aforethought:

This post originated from the rec room computer at the Home for the Mentally Deranged or Merely Confused



[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 01-09-2000).]

 

[Summerland]

Howie,
there is a place for inexpensive pens and inexpensive knives. These provide adequate performance, with little to no attention to aesthetics, and affordability for all. There is also a place for expensive pens and knives, that cut better and write better--and look better!--than inexpensive ones. I own several Waterman and Cross pens, and must say that my pen cravings probably spring from the same source as my knife cravings--though I doubt that this craving comes from sexual inadequacy or repression (perhaps projection?)

Anyone else enjoy high-quality pens??

 

[Dexter Ewing]

my pen cravings probably spring from the same source as my knife cravings

Bingo! Mine does too. Everytime I visit the local pen shop I get that same tingly feeling that I get when going to a knife show - want to see, touch, and hold them. I am rarely without a knife(-ves) and one of my pens. Though I've been going through dilemmas lately - new Benchmade or the redesigned Namiki Vanishing Point?? Sigh....so many knives and pens, so little dough

------------------
Dexter Ewing
Knife Reviews Moderator
AKTI Member # A000005

 

[unocide]

i'd like to throw my $.02 in here....

i think you can spend as much as you want on anything you want to buy. there is however a parabolic function that can be used to describe it. crap is cheap. double the price and you get 1/4 more quality. keep doing that forever. monitors and cars are EXACTLY the same way. the sony trinitron multiscan gdm 500 ps, is a 21" monitor that's really expensive. The McLaren F1 is SO FREAKIN' EXPENSIVE... but it's near perfect.

(that's a car that goes really fast....)

just thought I'd share that. don't know how relevant it was.

------------------
Knives and Cars...
Simple but EXPENSIVE.

 

[tbark]

I think I have to agree with the quality Factor I use pen's every day but I have one that is Handmade that goes everywhere I go so I know I can count on it when I need it it's Nice it was made with deer antler and takes cross refills and priced about 65.00
but I dont have to worry with it dripping all down the frount of My shirt ,it's like My Knife I carry one of my own construction
and I can depend on it when I need it sheep horn Linerlock made with ATS-34 or one of a dozen other's in my Bag so quality count's for somthing when I was 18 I liked My Chevy PU now that I am 30+ I would rather have a Cadalac they go just as fast only alot smother ride

------------------
TbarK Custom Knives
I am Opposed to Millionair's but it would be Dangerous to Offer Me The Job,Mark Twain
http://vip.hpnc.com/~tbark

 

[Sid Post]

While I enjoy using a fine knife daily, my needs for a pen are more limited. How much pen do I need to sign my name (assuming the credit card receipt requires a signature)? The keyboard on this computer ensures my bills are paid and the email is delivered much faster then any letter I might write.

A knife is also a daily use tool that makes immediate differences in a persons life. The pen may be mightier then the sword but, the pen doesn't do much good out in the bush or in a lonely dark alley late at night .....

Where do you guys shop for these high end pens? What brands do you like at what price ranges? Is there a PenForums?

Stay Sharp,
Sid

 

[Summerland]

Of course, you can have your cake and eat it too by getting an Executive Edge--it looks like a pen in your pocket, but is very nicely put together, unlike many "pen knives". They are harder to find now, but try http://www.gunvideo.com/HTML/MINDEX.HTML under "stealth knives").

There are extensive pen collecting "support groups" on the Net, as well as many good dealers. For brands, I like Waterman, Cross, Parker, and Mont Blanc ($40-$400).

Maybe I'll have someone make me a combo knife/pen display stand for the top of my desk . . .

 

[Spidey]

I have several knives. I could carry a BM705, 710, 750, Kershaw Blackout, SpeedTech Synergy, etc. All very fine knives in their own right, some more expensive than the others. But I carry my CRK Sebenza every day. It just has a feel and function that speaks to me more than the others.

I have several pens. Waterman, Parker, Mont Blanc, Aurora, etc. All very fine pens in their own right, some more expensive than the others. But I carry my Aurora every day. It just has a feel and function that speaks to me more than the others. (And it's not the most expensive of the bunch.)

By the way, I'm talking fountain pens here. I write left-handed and had always assumed I couldn't use a fountain pen. Then I saw the Waterman Edson. A thing of beauty (to me -- YMMV). That started me down the road. I found the writing experience much better with a fine fountain pen. Prior to that, I used the Uni-Ball Vision. I've converted a lot of people to using that pen -- it's smooth and lays down a beautiful line. But I don't use them any more because they now feel awkward after having grown accustomed to a fountain pen.

Since you are a writer, I suggest you first try the Uni-ball, and if that works for you, find some way to get a good-quality fountain pen and see if you like that even better.

------------------
...the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives… (Joshua 5:2)

 

[johno]

As with any interest these days there are lots of ways to spend money on endless lists of features, knives and pens included. As with expensive pens I think that a lot of knives are primarily fun toys, staus symbols to some, considering how many comments are made by owners who state that they would never use them in a situation where they'd have a chance of getting scratched or such. Still, some do use their knives hard.

I don't know about some expensive knife offering better performance as most that were mentioned are single blade folders, knives that as someone observed and has complained about often will usually fold an edge if they hit a staple. With some SAKs, and especially with a knife like a stockman one has more fresh blades to use.

 

[Matt Shade]

I buy what I need to get the job done. A $5 bushmaster knock of of a the original leatherman is not even going to get me through 1 season of baling hay and straw. I spent 6 times more on a gerber and it took an unbeleivable beating for the next 4 years.Did I think it was cool that I had bought the one that was more expensive? No. I don't care what the cost is, I care what the quality is. I need a tool that can get the job done for me more than once and do it safely.I carry a Delica to. People say I'm nuts for spending $40 on it when Tractor supply Company has a made in taiwan look alike for $5. But do I want to trust my fingers to the quality of the made in taiwan peice of crap? No. I know for a fact that it would not hold up under the use I need it to.So the only question left is when it fails, will I be lucky enough not to hurt myself.Thats not a question I want to find an answer to. In my opinion you'd have to be crazy to want a $1200 pen, but then I don't like to write either. I guess what I'm saying is that cost isn't what matters. If I could've got my Delica for $5 and My Gerber for $5 I would have been really happy. I don't feel cool for having something more expensive, I usually feel dumb if I spend more on something than I needed to. I get things based on how they will perform and if they will last. Cost is just a nasty side effect that leaves me broke most of the time

------------------
Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !

 

[Gollnick]

I own a lot of knives. I've lost count. Very few of them are "cheapies." I suppose the average knife in my collection is worth $250. The recent increases in the values of Benchmade Bali-Songs have really driven my collection up.

But, I own a lot more pens. Hundreds, I'm sure. Not one of them is collectible. I have one "nice" pen for "dressy" occations, a very sleek silver thing that probably cost about $25. The rest are Sanford Uni-Ball rolling ball pens. IMHO, the Sanford Uni-Ball, which costs less than one dollar, is the best pen ever made. They fit my hand perfectly and they write so nicely. I'm sure that if I was to empty every drawer and every nook around this place, I'd find a couple hundred of 'em. I buy 'em in boxes of 25 in different colors and I just stash them all over the place so that I'll always have a pen handy. Right now, the holder on my desk contains: seven black uni-balls, six blue ones, a red one, two green ones, and a six-inch ruler. There are four more scattered around my desk, and one in my pocket.

My brother, on the other hand, poh-pohs my Uni-balls. He won't write with anything less than a $250 fountain pen. Of course, the only knife he carries is a Leatherman Micra that I gave him.

I like my Benchmade AFCKs. I always have one with me. I've done amazing things with them, not the least of which was clearing a solder bridge between two very delicate leads of an IC chip with only a few thousandths of an inch between them. As I tried to decide how to do this, my AFCK seemed like the best tool at hand. That same knife later that day enlarged a cut in a 1/4" thick plywood piece. It wasn't much of an enlargement, but the serrated section of the blade made swift and clean work of it.

As for pens, my brother has wonderful handwritting. Mine sucks. I've tried his pens and they don't make my handwritting any better nor do they feel that much different to me.

It's all in what you like.

IMHO, everyone should have at least one nice thing in their life, a fine pen, a great knife, a fancy watch, whatever, but one thing that allows them to see and experience the height of human achievement.

------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick

 

[tim_marsh]

Pens and knives... It doesn't surprise me that there is a kind of crossover here. People who carry quality knives because they appreciate the design integrity, elegance and engineering aren't likely to get steamed up over a Bic.

I wouldn't consider myself a pen-nut, but with Dexter, I get the same kind of drool factor from fine pen shops as I do from fine cutlery.

Daily carry:
* Modified Benchmade Mini AFCK: smooth, elegant, versatile and very sharp.
* Matched pair of Rotring 600 fountain pen and pencil: Machined from a solid lump of brass; simple, elegant design; totally bulletproof. I bought the pens with my first paycheck from a computer-based job, just so I would never lose the enjoyment of writing.

Entertaining thread!

Cheers,
Tim

 

[James Mattis]

For my shirt pocket - the Waterman fountain pen and the William Henry CF Lancet, shown in this picture

And I just recently moved up from a $25- watch to a $100+ watch, because it was too hard to find a cheap watch that didn't come from the world's largest political prison.

"The pen is mightier than the sword, but not in the dark." - some cynic said that

------------------
- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001


[This message has been edited by James Mattis (edited 01-09-2000).]

 

[Bearlegs]

I carry my Spyderco Military, Wenger Pocket Tool Chest, and Rotring 800 Tri-pen every day. I keep my Pelikan 800 rollerball in my desk drawer, but enjoy using it immensely when the mood strikes. I also have a Waterman rollerball and a 1925 Parker duofold fountain pen that I admire more than I use. Honestly, I admire all the above utensils far more than I use them because they are, for me, works of art. It is the inherent design, functionality and performance that draws me to these objects. In layman's terms, that just means I think they're "cool"! Granted, "cool" is difficult to define, but I know it when I see it. Don't you?

------------------
Chris Turner
Arkansas

"We Don't Rent Pigs" --Augustus McCrae

"I won't abide rude behavior in a man." -- Woodrow Call

 

[Ewok]

I think part of the difference between a cheap fountain pen and an expensive one is the metal in the nib. I had a ~$70 Waterman which I carried for a while, then put on a shelf and forgot about. A year or so later, I picked it up and the nib was all corroded. I would hope that a $400 pen wouldn't have corroded.... Even so, I'm still not willing to spend $100s on a pen; I'm a knife guy.

------------------
Protect your Right to Keep and Bear Arms!

 

[stjames]

I love knives, like watches, and have become addicted to the ease of use and convenience of Fisher Bullet Space Pen. My taste in all of these items is very similar: Reliability and a simplicity of design that is attractive in and of itself.

------------------
James Segura
San Francisco, CA

 

[Tommi]

What is different with pens and knives is that I can't get the work done faster if my pen is 10 times more expansive but normally 100$ knife is more ergonomic has better edgegeometry for better cutting ability than 10$ knife. With a good knife you get your chores faster done (as you all BF readers know).

The quaity of print of a pen is only dependent on inkcartridges quality. Thus inkcartridge sets the limit to a pens performance. I like pens but normally after about 20-40$ price the ergonomics actually get worse. In fountain pens the limit is higher. Ink adheres to the surface as well(almost) from 5$ pen as from 50$ pen. An expensive pen is like ( my favorite comparision ) B&O audio device: more looks but less performance than in a device that costs one fourth of B&O. You pay for appearances and materials not for performance and ergonomics. (B&O is still a lot better performer than most home 'stereos')

.

I like to have great materials and desing in same item and I may be willing to use some money to get a more expensive pen but as performance is part of reason to pay more my limit in pens is about 100$.

 

[AJ]

The title of this thread should use "and" instead of "versus". Most of us seem to enjoy nice writing implements as much as we enjoy fine cutting implements, which comes as now real surprise.

The same level of skill and craftsmanship is needed to craft a fine pen as it is to craft a fine knife. Just as in knives, where the quality of materials used makes a huge difference in the final quality of the knife, so it is with writing implements. The quality of materials used in the nib (or roller ball) and barrel determine the ultimate quality of the pen.

Just like you can order or get different materials and finishes on knives, so it is with writing implements. You have only to determine what you want and how much you are willing to pay.

Just like some folks would never pay more than $40-50 for a pocket knife, so too are there many people who would never understand paying $300 for a fountain pen. That's what makes life so darn interesting... choices!

The more expensive knives, and the more expensive writing implements, do not, after a certain point, cut or write significantly better than their less expensive brothers and sisters. However, the pleasure they bring to their owners is beyond calculation. The same arguments can all be made for expensive watches. Ain't life grand?

Don't worry about someone else's spending habits. Feed your own.

AJ