Krup 4116 stainless steel

W.T. Beck said:
Sorry, Redguy. Ich verstehe nur bisschen Deutsch. (Probably spelled that wrong, trying to write, "I understand only a little German.")
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I don't speak German at all. :) I just googled the page out and after I found it, all I had to know was the Mendeleev periodic table.
 
nozh2002 said:
Is this steel also made in China?

Thanks, Vassili.
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I do not know about the steel itself but my Finn Bear says Taiwan. I do like this knife very much for what I got it for. I will most likely not get one of the Combat Classics in it though. For an inexpensive knife for fishing or whatever I think the Finn Bear and Roach Belly are great.
 
Is the 4116 Krupp the same as 1.4116?

I got a german knife that has 1. 4 116 X45 Cr Mo V 15 etched on it. Its looks seems to hold up to everyday use in a domestic kitchen. Havent got to sharpen it yet as its a Se
 
In general it is hard to say uniformly one steel is better than another, those small alloys will for example reduce the free carbon and thus the hardness will drop a little. But in general (very general) small amounts of vanadium as a grain refiner are a good thing.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
In general it is hard to say uniformly one steel is better than another, those small alloys will for example reduce the free carbon and thus the hardness will drop a little. But in general (very general) small amounts of vanadium as a grain refiner are a good thing.

-Cliff
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Thank you, Cliff.:thumbup:
 
yamato said:
Is the 4116 Krupp the same as 1.4116?

I got a german knife that has 1. 4 116 X45 Cr Mo V 15 etched on it.
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Exactly, it,s not 4116, it is 1.4116 which is X45CrMoV15 (DIN) according EN 10088. Its a martensitic-ferritic steel, its composition containing 13.8-18% Cr and 0.9-1.3% Mo and 0.10 V makes it a good steel for kitchen cutlery and tools. The steel is also called "duplex steel" in Europe. It's not quite similar to 440C, it has a much lower cabon content, less chromium, less silicium and molybdenum as well. 440C also has probably less corrosion resistance than 1.4116 but C440 can be hardened to 60HRC.

Its most definately not inferior steel from China. It has major advantages over 440C but also some drawbacks. Like a guy said before, there is no bad steel, there si only steel that's used for teh wrong thing. As far as I know most of it is made by Böhler in Düsseldorf, some by Thyssen.
 
pogo said:
I demand tough steel in my blades & 420HC just dosn't cut it for me! Give me tough Okapi Carbon Steel anyday!
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Just picked up two from Ragnar. I've got no problem with 1055. Easy to reprofile, tough, holds an edge well enough for my purposes. I'm not worried about it chipping out, like my Native. I don't mind touch-ups nearly as much as I dislike chips.

Frank
 
Walt-FL said:
Exactly, it,s not 4116, it is 1.4116 which is X45CrMoV15 (DIN) according EN 10088. Its a martensitic-ferritic steel, its composition containing 13.8-18% Cr and 0.9-1.3% Mo and 0.10 V makes it a good steel for kitchen cutlery and tools. The steel is also called "duplex steel" in Europe. It's not quite similar to 440C, it has a much lower cabon content, less chromium, less silicium and molybdenum as well. 440C also has probably less corrosion resistance than 1.4116 but C440 can be hardened to 60HRC.

Its most definately not inferior steel from China. It has major advantages over 440C but also some drawbacks. Like a guy said before, there is no bad steel, there si only steel that's used for teh wrong thing. As far as I know most of it is made by Böhler in Düsseldorf, some by Thyssen.
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German steel may be very good, but I very doubt that China import it from Germany in general it imports only high tech weapon systems from Russia and export everything else. Again it is most likely closest analog by composition to their local Chinese steel and it will be naive to expect it being as good as German steel.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
How about the chinese steel supply to the Spyderco Byrd line, Vasilij? Surely, that steel isn't bad and yet it's chinese ;) .

~Paul~
 
nozh2002 said:
German steel may be very good, but I very doubt that China import it from Germany in general it imports only high tech weapon systems from Russia and export everything else. Again it is most likely closest analog by composition to their local Chinese steel and it will be naive to expect it being as good as German steel.

Thanks, Vassili.
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If the name Krupp is on the steel, then it's a German steel...right.

All this talk about it 'not being imported', What is that?

Is this steel NOT made by the german company Krupp?

Does having a plant in China suddenly make the stel maker unreliable?

Are they going to throw their name (and that particular product) in the trash by misslabeling an 'analog chinese steel' with what I understand is a product name used in their German prduced steel?

Are Spyderco knives made in Taiwan, 'Taiwanese analogs' by design of their Boulder counterparts?

:) ???
 
Again, most likely this is not steel from Gemany.
There is some possibility that this is from Krupp steel plant in China, if there is any.
But most likely it is some chinese steel which by composition same or close by to that Krupp steel.

I saw this many times sometimes marketing may skip "Chinese analog" from their publication accidentely. This way AUS-6 was presented as 440A some time ago etc... It is well known how CS marketing creative, they invent "tanto tip", San-Mai and other things, so this is why I am suspitiont.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
dePaul said:
How about the chinese steel supply to the Spyderco Byrd line, Vasilij? Surely, that steel isn't bad and yet it's chinese ;) .

~Paul~
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I do not like Spyderco moving production to communist China. They lost some points with me because of this. This is why I respect Kershaw a lot even it is Japanese Company but they show more respect to US manufacturing then many american. Like few other companies where management instead of looking for excuse how not to work, they really do what they suppose to do and produce high quality knives for prices which can easy beat Chinese.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
1. I do not like Spyderco moving production to communist China. They lost some points with me because of this.

2. This is why I respect Kershaw a lot even it is Japanese Company but they show more respect to US manufacturing then many american.

3. they really do what they suppose to do and produce high quality knives for prices which can easy beat Chinese.
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1. Calm down Vasilij. Many european and american companies move their plants to China. Are they all bad and do they all support the communist regime, or are they just in time due to the world market, hoping to earn a buck? ;)

2. Kershaw made their decision based on QC and price point at that time. I am not sure thei'd make the same decision today.

3. Are you sure? There is always the ratio based on price contra quality. Are you really certain that the japanese products correspond to this comparison to 100%??

~Paul~
 
dePaul said:
1. Calm down Vasilij. Many european and american companies move their plants to China. Are they all bad and do they all support the communist regime, or are they just in time due to the world market, hoping to earn a buck? ;)

2. Kershaw made their decision based on QC and price point at that time. I am not sure thei'd make the same decision today.

3. Are you sure? There is always the ratio based on price contra quality. Are you really certain that the japanese products correspond to this comparison to 100%??

~Paul~
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Do you know why in Russia everybody has latest models of cellphones for very cheap price? Because they bough it from same plants which produces them for "european and american companies" same as this companies buying directly and so it cost very less. Of courese that companies has no dime from this deals. There are many kind of things. They may earn a buck or two but how many they losing? It is taking away money from your own people and give it to China to buy latest MIG jet fighters, SunBurn Missales- battle group killers etc..., not because they reall cheaper, but just becaous China government set this exchange rate the way that american and european companies happy to betraid thei workers, where thouse poor people have buck or two?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
I do not like Spyderco moving production to communist China. They lost some points with me because of this. This is why I respect Kershaw a lot even it is Japanese Company but they show more respect to US manufacturing then many american. Like few other companies where management instead of looking for excuse how not to work, they really do what they suppose to do and produce high quality knives for prices which can easy beat Chinese.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Kershaw has manufacturing in Kuangtung China. A lot of stuff is made in China, there's not much to be done about it. Personally, I think the capital inflows are going to force changes in the country faster than any legislation to stem them.
 
its true that many countries cant mass manufacture a knife as cheap as they can in china. Its from a business standpoint that some businesses are shifting overseas.



take for example the above knife. its full tang, looks like teak scales

7 plus inch stainless steel. sorry i do not have the entire picture of it.

Wanna make a guess how much its retail is after being exported and sold for a profit?


USD 0.60 cant even buy the brass rivets at this price.

what i like is that they are cheap and the pass the savings to consumers and not do a huge markup.
 
nozh2002 said:
Again, most likely this is not steel from Gemany.
There is some possibility that this is from Krupp steel plant in China, if there is any.
But most likely it is some chinese steel which by composition same or close by to that Krupp steel.

I saw this many times sometimes marketing may skip "Chinese analog" from their publication accidentely. This way AUS-6 was presented as 440A some time ago etc... It is well known how CS marketing creative, they invent "tanto tip", San-Mai and other things, so this is why I am suspitiont.

Thanks, Vassili.
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I have to disagree with you on that point Vassili. If they advertise that it is Krupp steel, then it has to be made in a Krupp factory. That factory may be in China or Brazil, but it is still owned and run by Krupp. Otherwise they would advertise 1.4116 steel the way that Spyderco and Benchmade advertise the Chinese counterparts to AUS8. 1.4116 is an open specification. Anyone can make steel and call it that as long as it meets the compositional requirements. "Krupp 4116" is not open; only Krupp can make it.
 
I do not own anything from CS but if they say krupp 4116 was used, i do not see why is there a need to doubt that.
 
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