Kydex and Blade Finishes!

Joined
Aug 4, 1999
Messages
2,596
Now that I have my cork and felt belts and every compound known to man... Two buffers and wheels for every compound... I'm finally getting some great looking mirror finishes on my D2 Blades!!!!
Now the problem is the Kydex sheaths! It, or what ever gets in the sheath scratches the finish!!!!I know that the sheaths can be lined with leather. This seems to defeat the purpose of the plastic.
Does anyone else mirror finish knives that are going into Kydex??? Is there a trick to making the sheaths not scratch??? I see no problems with my hand rubbed finishes.
Thanks
Neil

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Just updated 10/31!! New Knives, New Pics!!!
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html

 
Dr. Lathe, I think you're SOL on this one. The material not only scuffs polished blades, but it will polish bead-blasted ones and scratch satin ones opposite the direction they are finished in, it always seems! Also, if the handle scales serve as an area the material grips for retention, you will get some scratching or polishing on the scales, too. I think Kydex is a great material, but as George stated in the other thread, it is best reserved for knives that are going to be used hard and where scratching is inconsequential, anyway.

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My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/kydex.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html
 
Dammit, Dammit, SOB!!!
I've been doing a lot of two tone finishs on my neck knives. Horizontal hand rub with mirrored hollow grinds. It looks cool but not after about a week in and out of the sheath. The only area is shows up on is the mirror polished area.
I new that the Kydex was going to have a slight affect on the areas that contact the sheath and hold the knife in. I realy didn'think it was going to be that bad on the hollow grinds!!!!
Neil

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Just updated 10/31!! New Knives, New Pics!!!
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html

 
Hello!

I think it is possible to make a kydex sheath that doesn't rub on the blade, although it doesn't work with all styles of knives...

To make the sheath work, you need to index on at least two points and two planes...

If you have a guard this is the best place to index on although you will see some polishing...you also need to index on the blade tip instead of the blade...This will minimize the damage, but not eliminate it completely...

When I fit my sheaths, I use a dry spray lube in the sheath and this shows me where the knife blade contacts the sheath...I then use a heat gun to relax the sheath at this point so the knife indexes on the ricasso/handle and the blade tip and not on the blade itself...Also you can try wrapping the blade with tape prior to molding to give you a bit more room, although I find this is not needed in most cases...

With the small knives like the "PUP" the sheath indexes in the "Button lock" and the tip and if done right will not damage the blade...

Like I said, it doesn't work on every knife although I'm having pretty good luck with it...when I do a sheath for a customers knife, I make damn sure that it doesn't damage the finish...
smile.gif


Having said all of that, leather will damage a knife as well with field use...Grit will get into the leather and won't come out...best to keep the real shiny stuff at home!

I use the Concealex™ brand thermoplastic...kydex style sheaths may not be perfect, but they perform well and help keep my prices down...I live on the wet side of the Cascade Mountains and the sheaths work well for field use in my conditions...

P.S. I make leather sheaths as well...some people don't mind plastic but some just gotsta' have the real thing!

Running Dog

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Running Dog Knife Company
mmurphy@premier1.net
Current work: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=147807&a=1080907
Hey Chiro75! Did you see my plastic sheath page?
www.runningdog.homepage.com/index.html

 
I make my own kydex sheaths, albeit amateurly. If I make one that doesn't scratch (no liner) and bring it out to the field with me, I end up getting the blade scratched in the sheath anyway when I get dirt in it.

-Greg
 
Running Dog, I hear what you are saying, but I scratched the heck out of the blade in one spot on the Little Pup you sent to me. It doesn't take much grit to do it, even on a fairly loose design. It's a drawback to Kydex, but then again there's no perfect material, so you have to choose the lesser of two evils!

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My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/kydex.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html
 
how about lining them with velvet? wouldn't that stop blade scratching. you would probably sell more sheaths, i know i'd rather buy a sheath lined with velvet or a soft material, than just a krydex one destined to scratch your blade.
 
Well, this is just MHO but I think kydex should be used only on using knives that are going to see use/abuse, as scratching of the blade is inevitable.
Unless, of course, one can find an appropriate material to line the inside of the sheath.
I asked this question several months ago and the consensus was that leather lined kydex was tryed before and would not fly. I'm hoping some brave soul can find a solution to this as I would like to use kydex on high satin and mirror polished blades too.
If you have the answer, PLEASE post!
smile.gif


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If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there to correct him, is he still wrong?

 
Chiro! I feel your pain!
smile.gif


I'm working hard to make the "rubbing" a thing of the past...

I just talked with Eric from On-Scene Tactical Products (http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel)(namedropper!), and asked him what he thought of the idea of using Velcro™ loop on the inside of the sheaths...He is against it, but I haven't yet tried...It would work for some applications, but I would worry about longevity and holding moisture against the blade...Maybe a polypropylene fleese of some kind, but unless it was removeable, still a cleaning nightmare...

Knives that get used will show wear...Plastic sheath have to index on *something* to work upside down...mostly the guard or the handle or the Button like the "PUP"...Our thin one piece knives lock on the "spur" or finger guards...And they polish right away! I had this trouble with blueing as well...

However, if you make a more traditional srongside sheath, I think you can move away from indexing on the blade itself and index off of the guard and the tip of the blade, or use the handle and ricasso area to lock it in...This might be a help to the blade polishers out there!

I know this will not work with all knives...Now-a-days we have to design with the new sheaths in mind...

More work, but we are already seeing the results...first the dive knives and now the neck knives...These new materials will drive new knife designs...Fun!

Running Dog

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Running Dog Knife Company
mmurphy@premier1.net
Current work: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=147807&a=1080907
Hey Chiro75! Did you see my plastic sheath page?
www.runningdog.homepage.com/index.html

 
I've been making leather sheaths for years and had few scratching problems. It's only been over the last few months that I got into the Kydex. As a matter of fact, I think it was Chiro that got me going with the Kydex... Thanks alot CHIRO!!!
Just kidding, I think I have to focus more on the blade finishes I'm using rather than trying change the tendencies of the Kydex. I just finished a knife with a stonewash (tumbled) finish. It looks good and seems to hold up to the Kydex. Any slight scratches seem to blend in with the finish and are not that noticeable. I also do an acid etched-handrubbed finish that is not very shiny. I think that might be the best "upscale" finish for a Kydex sheath.
Neil

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Just updated 10/31!! New Knives, New Pics!!!
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html

 
Hey Guys...

Neil..
I agree what Chiro and Michael are saying..

It is something you have to live with..

The problem with making a sheath that locks onto the scales,,, and this is the way 99.9% of the kydex/concealex sheaths are made is that,, if you ONLY have the material grabbing the scales and around the handle,, maybe the choil,, you will have Slop in the sheath. A nice blade,, but sloppy..

In other words the blade will slap around in the sheath...

If you are Dead Set on lining your sheaths,, there is a way to do it,,in Theory anyway...

You need to find a material,, such as closed cell foam and somehow bond it to the kydex..
The material has to be impervious to water..Silicone impregnated maybe!

It's not an easy task,,finding something that will last a very long time!

This causes another problem..

Crap becoming stuck in the sheath will scratch the blade then anyway..

Chiro's idea of a completely removable rig,,would be the answer to the problem,,But this in itself poses it's own problems,, more in the way of looks than function.

No matter how you slice it,, there really isn't an answer to the problem of scratching...

Actually there is one way!
Line the Concealex with whatever you want,, but you have to use either SS, Ti,Talonite or something that doesn't stain..
This way it doesn't matter how much water is in it,, it won't rust..

The way I look at it is this..
If I buy a blade from someone,, I'm going to use it,, no matter how beautiful it is, I will use it.. I'm a user of knives not a collector.
It's one thing our customers will have to get use to if they want a high quality Concealex sheath,, designed to do what it is suppose to do.. Hold the knife in place!

I just finished a custom rig for a customer with a Dozier Toothpick in D2...(pics on my site)

After the initial press,, I remove the blade, reinsert it once to make sure it was a good press,, then cover the blade in E-tape, to protect it from those nasty little scratches. Sharp Concealex/Kydex edges and the dust,, are wicked abrasives...

After I set the eyelets, I sketch out the design,,cut then rough sand. I then check for fit...
The blade goes in and out of the sheath at least a dozen times to ensure proper fit.Once it fits and I'm happy with the look,, then everything from there is hand sanded to make sure I get out 99% of the scratches,,then polish...
An important step here that might help you,,is washing under HIGH pressure.Blow out as much of the dust as you can.. and remove any sharp edges,, especially inside the mouth.

Once this is done..I remove the e-tape,, then start to play with Exact fit, blade slop,,side to side,, tightness,,doing touch ups with the gun..

To get a tight blade fit I indent the rear of the sheath Against the blade...
This is where you get rubbing...
It can't be helped,,either you want a nice tight fit,, with no slop,, or a sloppy blade,,but no scratching or rubbing!

Pheeew!!!
That's my story and I'm sticking with it!
Hope it helped you guys...

Michael,, thanks for the plug dude!
smile.gif


Eric - OST

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Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel


 
Hello,

The Pontification on Kydex/Consealex hand forming is a lengthy one at best.

If you want to give me a call somtime i will tell you how to Form a sheath out of either material with Absolutly no vertical/horizontal blade play and less than
1% specific area blade finnish wear.

It`s not that hard to do with the proper
steps before and during the forming.

Anyway if ya want my Number to Call go ahead and email me.


Thanks ,
Allen Blade
 
I heard some people line their kydex sheaths with cordura. I assume it was picked because it's relatively scratch free and proven to survive corrosive environments.
 
Kydex sheaths lead to scratches on the blade. I own - or have owned - knives with Kydex sheaths from Dozier, Nealy, MadDog, Busse, Crawford and a few other. ALL blades ended up with marings on them from gong in and out of the sheath. The least amount occurred with the Nealy knives - perhaps because they have the magnet inside to aid in holding the knife.

I've tried wrapping the knives in tape before I make the sheath. I've tried just about everything, but I've never eliminated the scrathches.

Oh, well...

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www.wilkins-knives.com


 
go to Home Depot, they sell adhesive backed felt that is made to go under jewelry boxes,etc to prevent scratching wood. It has a peel off back and lasts forever. I've put it inside sheaths and also in pocketknife belt sheath to prevent the back of the snap from scratching and it works great.
It costs about $3 for a sq.ft.

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lifter
Phil. 4:13

Dave
Wharton,NJ


 
Hello Allen!

Not sure how to reach you other than this forum...

Please tell me if I am worthy of learning the secret of Kydex...(Sorta' like the secret of steel, but not as hard, I would think...)

As I ramp up for production, I have the greatest interest in producing the best product I can...Any "hidden knowledge" you could pass on to the great unwashed (me) would be helpful
smile.gif


Running Dog

------------------
Running Dog Knife Company
mmurphy@premier1.net
Current work: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=147807&a=1080907
Hey Chiro75! Did you see my plastic sheath page?
www.runningdog.homepage.com/index.html

 
Dr.Lathe

I have a few Ideas. If you will send one of your polished pieces I will make a sheath that will hopefully not mar your finish.

No charge as … I would like to try something.

Give a call if you have any interest …. 910-455-9834
 
Hey Guys...

The problem here is finding a product that Won't retain water,,and save the blade from scratching.
Felt, Leather, Nylon,, none of that will work..
Sure it will save the blade from scratches,, but it will also retain moisture!

There is however one other way of doing it...

Bond the inside of the sheath with the same material Blade Rigger is putting on their handles...
This might slow down on the rubbing or eliminate it all together..

I know what Rigger is using,, but I can't say what it is... All I will say is that it is readily available...

If that can be bonded,, we may have an answer to the problem,, in part anyway!

ttyle Eric...

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Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel


 
I've never felt what Bladerigger uses. Isn't it rubber-like, though? That would pose obvious problems if it were. Plus, all these inserts could just as easily trap grit as the Kydex itself, and that wouldn't prevent scratching at all!

------------------
My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/kydex.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html
 
Hello,

Not many secrets to Hand forming,,Just proper Technique.... 8-)

If a Maker or Maufacturer is getting Excessive Blade finnish Wear on there Blade there is only one explanation,

There not Forming it Right, and not setting up the Blade Right Prior to Forming and not
Tweaking the Final product to alleviate Blade finish wear.

Anyway if anyone needs help or Advice below is my number feel free to call anytime.

1-509-921-9918 - shop
1-509-928-7577 - Home

Thanks ,

Allen Blade
 
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