[Laguiole] Are the pins on your Shepherd's Cross aligned?

I have four laguioles with the Shepherd's Cross. Three of them give me no reason to complain, though I can't tell if any are perfectly aligned. The fourth is obviously misaligned.

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My FP is straight though. I think yours might simply be a Monday knife.

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If I had sent back all the GECs with a too much pressed pin, I would not have kept but a handful (those waynorth waynorth had an eye on, like TCs)...
Personally of the two Lags I have, one has no cross and I needed this thread to realize the other has the last pin slightly off upward. (edit : or is it the middle one that goes downward: see picture)
Since I own that one since the 90s, I take it that it did not bother me at all... Sunken pins suck...

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Well, it seems you are a collector and thus appearance dominate. Dead precise fit and precision is the realm of Modern knives - not that this can be used as a defence of shoddiness of construction in Traditional knives. I don't feel this IS shoddy construction though.

Since it seems to actually cause you anguish I would advise returning it for a refund even if you lose out (should be able to reclaim import tax from customs if the product is returning to the country of origin though) You'll never reconcile with the knife and you'll always be annoyed with it. As for selling it, since it's not a FOMA GEC then you'll take a loss so better get you money back now.

I think it's always wise to wait at least a week before giving feedback, initial impressions good or bad can be unreliable, the euphoria of getting an expensive new item can lead to being over generous- one reason why I tend to view effusive feedback with caution. But what of your experiences with other Traditional knives in your collection, have they disappointed you with regard to F&F ?

I'd agree with Jolipapa Jolipapa plenty of GECs could be returned due to their patchy performance as regards pin finish, complaints about F&F issues with CASE/Bose Collabs are not unheard of nor Customs either. Sometimes, people just anguish too much about the detail and miss out on enjoyment.
 
There is a great retailer in the US that Imports Laguiole knives. (Sorry, I won't give a name*).
They take pictures of all the knives, front / back / top. One can order a particular knife. They stock Fontenille Pataud and Forge de Laguiole. French knives are very individual, pattern of the scales, filework on the back spring, decorative pins, ... To me it is worthwhile to buy from this dealer, even if it adds costs / duty simply for returning the knife back to Europe.

* This seems against forum rules. But try google.
 
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Luke_Chambers said:
There is a great retailer in the US that Imports Laguiole knives. (Sorry, I won't give a name).
They take pictures of all the knives, front / back / top. One can order a particular knife. They stock Fontenille Pataud and Forge de Laguiole. French knives are very individual, pattern of the scales, filework on the back spring, decorative pins, ... To me it is worthwhile to buy from this dealer, even if it adds costs / duty simply for returning the knife back to Europe.
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That's where I bought mine, and yes, they do a great job and stand behind their sales.
 
Will Power said:
Well, it seems you are a collector and thus appearance dominate. Dead precise fit and precision is the realm of Modern knives - not that this can be used as a defence of shoddiness of construction in Traditional knives. I don't feel this IS shoddy construction though.

Since it seems to actually cause you anguish I would advise returning it for a refund even if you lose out (should be able to reclaim import tax from customs if the product is returning to the country of origin though) You'll never reconcile with the knife and you'll always be annoyed with it. As for selling it, since it's not a FOMA GEC then you'll take a loss so better get you money back now.

I think it's always wise to wait at least a week before giving feedback, initial impressions good or bad can be unreliable, the euphoria of getting an expensive new item can lead to being over generous- one reason why I tend to view effusive feedback with caution. But what of your experiences with other Traditional knives in your collection, have they disappointed you with regard to F&F ?

I'd agree with Jolipapa Jolipapa plenty of GECs could be returned due to their patchy performance as regards pin finish, complaints about F&F issues with CASE/Bose Collabs are not unheard of nor Customs either. Sometimes, people just anguish too much about the detail and miss out on enjoyment.
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Thanks for your reply again, very helpful content, though I didn't understand some abbreviations, eg.g FOMA GEC, F&F (tried to search on internet, but get some different meanings), and "Monday Knife" as kamagong kamagong replied.

I wrote email to the manufacture, asked return and refund, they replied that my satisfaction is their commitment, they will replace the handle rather than make me unhappy. 😓 and they don't accept DHL or Fedex but just standard delivery, this means I need to wait over weeks / months and the parcel may got lost.
Replied again to ask what if I just wanted a return and refund instead of repair/replacement of handle, got a yes answer.

Ya, sometimes I concentrate in details a lot, this makes something good (to my work) and something not good (as in this case), as you said, I just focus in detail too much, miss out and forgot the rest great parts of the knife.
Why I post this topic, is wanted to see if this is a common situation in Laguiole knife (high end, pricy, 238EUR level)? is acceptable? so that I can see if I will continue my further buyings of other traditional knives (other Laguiole, LE Thiers, etc.) online and through same brand and manufacture.
Now I know, seems this is not common but also not a big problem or defect, from the product point of view, not from how the manufacture's attitude to their products.
I did a lot studies before this time purchasing as my first Laguiole, Fontenille Pataud had some good reviews and posts, and because it's about 50-90EUR more expensive than Fordge De Laguiole, I though they will have much better quality control, that's why I choose FP. I may just had too much expectation to the quality control due to the expensive price.


Regarding on the rest of traditional knives in my collection, very "funny", I am the bad luck man.
In my collection, there were 7 traditional knives, 4 got defect, 3 got return & replacement experience.

- The 1st Grohmann: #1 with stag horn handle, ordered online through the manufacture's website, the first time I receive it, the tip is not well finished, I posted in this forum and apparently I was advised to replace it, then 2nd time I receive the replaced one, the stag handle is obviously not symmetric, left piece is 2 times thicker than right piece, I posted in this forum too and was told it can happen to stag horn handle, but I still decided to drive over hundreds KMs to the manufacture's physical shop and finally get a good one.
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- The 2nd Grohmann: #4 with buffalo handle, purchased in shop, at beginning, I didn't noticed the handle obviously got hit by something (or not well finished), some pits on the buffalo horn handle, I sent it to the manufacture and got fixed (same country delivery, quick and not pricy):
Before | After
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- The 3rd Grohmann: #2 with precious stone handle, I went to the city by flight over thousand KMs for it, it seemed to be a 2nd-hand knife, the blade is full of scratches on the surface, but I accepted it (because of the experience from 2nd one, I know in Canada, some shops sell used items, though I was told it's completely new). And I don't have time to wait in the country, I just went there for travel and buy that knife.
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- The 4th Opinel: #8 Mushroom, same to the 2nd one, handle got hit by something, some pits, I sent them back and replaced it. (dealer is in same country, very fast delivery and no price paid as there is delivery insurance)
Untitled2.jpg


So this Laguiole is my 8th traditional knife and the 5th have "defect" (or imperfection). I do buy lottery every week, never have so good luck.😆


Though finally they said I can get refund, I think I might just keep this knife, just don't want to waste time and my mind. It's as a lesson to my knife collecting journey as well.
Having a good lesson is enough, with review of the past purchasing history, I think I can stop buying knife online if there is no "delivery insurance" and no "unconditional return & refund service" (though I have sound reason).
As bad luck man, I will stop buying knife for a while, next time if I wanted to buy, must physically check the goods carefully or choose online dealer in same country, have delivery insurance and unconditional return & refund policy.

I am not traumatized, though in the past days I think a lot (return or not), viewed a lot photos, plus I choose FP because of the expectation on the basis of "expensive price, better quality".
Reading your replies and by writing here, is the termination of the story of this knife.


Thank you Will Power, Thank you everyone viewed and replied this topic.
 
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If you are willing to give Fontenille Pataud another chance and order another knife, I wouldn't worry too much. Though ordering a knife unseen always carries an element of risk, FP has excellent customer service and is very accommodating. I would simply ask them to provide pictures of a finished knife prior to shipping.
 
I have 5 Lags. 3 from Fontenille Pataud and 2 from Forge de Laguiole
Of the 5, 4 have crosses and one does not
The largest Laguiole I own only has 2 pins below the cross whereas the others have 3 pins.
Should I return that big ole Laguiole on the left because it's missing a pin entirely ?? 🤣
Yes, the knives are Handmade in France but they are still production knives. There is no doubt there is some production quota involved.
Your pin misalignment would not bother me in the least. To each his own. Good Luck !!!


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Dextar said:
So this Laguiole is my 8th traditional knife and the 5th have "defect" (or imperfection). I do buy lottery every week, never have so good luck.😆
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I've got plenty of the same issues. So when I can't view the knife in person, this is what I do: I order 3 knives and write Seller a note that I'm going to return 2 of them immediately at my own cost, for a refund. If this is causing too much hassle for him, please to cancel my order. Then I keep the one with best Fit & Finish. Exceptions are made with Great Eastern Cutlery and Victorinox.
That to say, from the pictures you included my standards aren't as high as yours. A few slight digs or scratches I don't mind, since the knife it going to be carried in the pocket and soon will get more.
 
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kamagong said:
If you are willing to give Fontenille Pataud another chance and order another knife, I wouldn't worry too much. Though ordering a knife unseen always carries an element of risk, FP has excellent customer service and is very accommodating. I would simply ask them to provide pictures of a finished knife prior to shipping.
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Ask them to provide pictures is good way, I should keep this in mind and asked them to do so, thanks for this advise and will apply it to future online orders.

Hopefully good quality control prior to customer service could happen, QC is the gatekeeper to keep the unseen risk away from online orders. Wanted to pay for a reputable knife from famous manufacture with history, but not for a painful purchasing / service long journey - no matter how good customer service it is, just don't want to waste money on delivery and clearance and the time spent to explain everything to the custom, etc.
Otherwise, why didn't just buy Laguiole from brand such as Robert David, etc? I am not saying it's bad, but it's low expensive enough. If I stayed in a motel and found a "dirty room", I may simply ask them to change another room, but if I checked-in at Fairmont, Ritz-Carlton or Waldorf in vacation and found a "dirty room", that's another story.

I would order another Le Thiers from FP again, coz it is the only place I can find order online directly and ship to Asia country, but who knows when🥹

Thank you for the reply.
 
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BrotherJim said:
I have 5 Lags. 3 from Fontenille Pataud and 2 from Forge de Laguiole
Of the 5, 4 have crosses and one does not
The largest Laguiole I own only has 2 pins below the cross whereas the others have 3 pins.
Should I return that big ole Laguiole on the left because it's missing a pin entirely ?? 🤣
Yes, the knives are Handmade in France but they are still production knives. There is no doubt there is some production quota involved.
Your pin misalignment would not bother me in the least. To each his own. Good Luck !!!


G1mmoWg.jpg
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Yours are all almost perfect, very well aligned. According to wikipedia I learnt, the cross is composed by 6-8 pins, so yours have no problem at all :D
Mine is another story, every one can clearly see the last pin bent up.

BTW, your Laguiole collection is really beautiful!

Thank you for your reply.
 
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BrotherJim said:
I have 5 Lags. 3 from Fontenille Pataud and 2 from Forge de Laguiole
Of the 5, 4 have crosses and one does not
The largest Laguiole I own only has 2 pins below the cross whereas the others have 3 pins.
Should I return that big ole Laguiole on the left because it's missing a pin entirely ?? 🤣
Yes, the knives are Handmade in France but they are still production knives. There is no doubt there is some production quota involved.
Your pin misalignment would not bother me in the least. To each his own. Good Luck !!!


G1mmoWg.jpg
Click to expand...
I dig your sense of humor! 👍

@ Dexar : there's no norm for the cross. Happily they did not take an angel. Long or short hair? 😉
 
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Luke_Chambers said:
I've got plenty of the same issues. So when I can't view the knife in person, this is what I do: I order 3 knives and write Seller a note that I'm going to return 2 of them immediately at my own cost, for a refund. If this is causing too much hassle for him, please to cancel my order. Then I keep the one with best Fit & Finish. Exceptions are made with Great Eastern Cutlery and Victorinox.
That to say, from the pictures you included my standards aren't as high as yours. A few slight digs or scratches I don't mind, since the knife it going to be carried in the pocket and soon will get more.
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Thank you for the reply with clarifications about F&F, GEC, Vic.
Sometimes I did same thing with you for local orders 😆
 
I never noticed the pins on my Laguiole knives. Two different makers, both have issues with the pins.
The top one is the oldest (about 15 years old).
The other looks like the last pin was randomly placed. :)

Also, if you snap them shut, the blade will strike the back spring, dulling the blade near the tip.

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JPD1998 said:
I never noticed until I read this thread and looked at a picture of my two knives.
Now I have to dig out my other laguioles. :)
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Given the spacing, it looks like the Shepherd's Cross is missing a pin on the damascus laguiole.
 
I think the OP had some of the terms used explained to him, and yes knife enthusiasts do employ some rather odd terminology etc :) FOMA is a variant of mass-hysteria, easily caught from any form of media - it means Fear Of Missing Out the kind of thing that impels people to buy something possibly merely because it is a) currently seen as trendy/desirable b) it may not be available again c) profits can be made with ease from it . d) I've got it you haven't- this is apparently a rush for some people. Hence collectors use all manner of high digital wizardry, arm twisting, ingratiation to get in on 'drops' first. Currently GEC and Albers knives have come under the gaze of FOMA, their utility as functional objects takes a back seat to their perceived desirability or rarity. I think Toilet Paper became an object of irrational FOMA some years back, even though there never was any shortage in the first place but media put the idea into peoples' heads and an insect mind took over:eek::D

The Grohmann knives shown, well I'd love one of those Stag ones as I could fix that tip on a stone in a minute or so, unequal slabs are a side-effect of most Stag for that matter. Scuffs on an inexpensive Opinel ? Not really to be worried about, they are for repeated active use.

Fortunately, we are all different, I would not care to pursue an interest that gave me such worry or repeated discontent, Modern knives however, are very exact usually, and precisely made, a Traditional will inevitably sport more individuality- idiosyncrasies and they have innate beauty-which to me is the vital part, others will see it differently. Legendary knife smith Bill Scagel was highly influenced by nature in his design & making of knives, noting that in Nature there are no straight lines - this might be the illuminating answer.
 
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