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Lance Armstrong Dirty?
- Thread starter munk
- Start date
FallingKnife said:
I know with anabolics, it clears from your system after a while. If a pro athlete used steriods regularly from age 18-25, then he'd still test clean at age 26 if he hasn't done any for the last year. Also, there are several undetectable anabolics available in the market... It's not too hard to get your hands on them. They're not illegal everywhere. Most bodybuilding and powerlifting forums discuss this openly, and are very knowledgeable. You can learn how to cycle and stack anabolics, etc.
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Sarge, that is a WHOLE 'nother thread.Sylvrfalcn said:If a man's wrong in the forest, and there's not a woman there to tell him, is he still wrong?
Sarge
I'm sure glad you're back in the cantina. I forgot what a catalyst you are. Keepin' the pot boiling, as I recall...
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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Neil Armstrong, Lance Armstrong, and don't forget Captain Armstrong of Tom Corbett, Space Cadet fame.
A great American family.
A great American family.
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Sylvrfalcn said:If a man's wrong in the forest, and there's not a woman there to tell him, is he still wrong?
Sarge
Yes. She'll bring it up later, much later, when he's all but forgotten. How did she know? She knows...
Regarding Lance and the 7x's ~ Keep in mind that he trained specifically to win this one race. Many other riders were training to finish this race, some to win this race along with other races. He trained year round with a single event and a single goal in mind. I believe that is one reason he dominated so easily.
That, and the juice....
Nah, just kidding, I think he's clean.~ B
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The French hate Americans and Lance Armstrong is an American and he is an American who beat the French 7 times at their own game in their own country. Lance Armstrong is a winner and the French are a bunch of losers and whiners.
I will take Lance Armstrong's word over the accusations of the French any day and any time.
You did great Lance! You kicked those Frenchies' butts into outter space 7 times. Congratulations.
J. W. Kilpatrick
I will take Lance Armstrong's word over the accusations of the French any day and any time.
You did great Lance! You kicked those Frenchies' butts into outter space 7 times. Congratulations.
J. W. Kilpatrick
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2001
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- 2,170
Not to mention that the test of Armstrong's urine was sponsored by a French newspaper... who'd have a HUGE reason to find him dirty (something along the lines of a frenchy pulitzer no doubt).
I don't think he raced dirty... doesn't make much sense for someone who just conquered cancer to risk using EOP to win a race. But I would like to see the urine tested by a reputable lab here in the states.
Too many people with their own agenda... they (French) should just move on...
Alan
I don't think he raced dirty... doesn't make much sense for someone who just conquered cancer to risk using EOP to win a race. But I would like to see the urine tested by a reputable lab here in the states.
Too many people with their own agenda... they (French) should just move on...
Alan
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- 3,930
I don't hate the French. I disagree with most of their politicians and the attitudes a lot of them have toward the world in general. But, from my recollections of serving over in Europe, your average French person is a regular Joe like you or me, and they don't hate us either, at least they didn't back then. Truth be told, those of them that love the sport, sans the politics, would probably tell you Lance is a great champion, deserved to win, and they are huge fans. Truth carried even farther along it's logical path, I doubt those French folk who have a problem with Lance would have any less problem with a guy from England, Poland, Japan, etc., who came into their country and cleaned their clocks seven times in a row. Strikes me they're just being regular old prideful humans.
Sarge
Sarge
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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Armstrong waging fight for reputation
Victor Hugo Pena, Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate, said the French were bad losers who could never accept his supremacy on the Tour.
"What Lance achieved nobody can take away," Pena, who helped Armstrong to three of his seven Tour victories, told Colombia's Caracol radio Tuesday. Pena said Armstrong was so closely watched during the Tour that it would have been impossible for him to use performance-enhancing drugs.
"Not only did the sports laboratories constantly test him, but video cameras were set up in his room and police agents constantly monitored Lance's movements and who was visiting him and even his phone conversations," Pena said.
Story: Armstrong had six positives from 1999 tests
Armstrong has been at odds with French doping officials and media since his 1999 win, but he never has been linked to a positive test, a point he emphasized in his prepared rebuttal.
"The paper even admits in its own article that the science in question here is faulty and that I have no way to defend myself," Armstrong said in a statement released late Monday night. "They state: 'There will therefore be no counter-exam nor regulatory prosecutions, in a strict sense, since defendant's rights cannot be respected.' I will simply restate what I have said many times: I have never taken performance-enhancing drugs."
"The French hate Americans ..." -- No, not all of them do:
Raymond Poulidor, a popular French cycling hero and three-time Tour runner-up, was clear about his position: "This is ridiculous. Why not retroactively test all the way back to 1903?"
Armstrong returns fire about doping allegations
"How can you prosecute a guy when there have been what must be violations of the WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) code?" Armstrong asked. "The code says when there is just one sample available, that sample must always be anonymous. Second, that sample can't be used without permission. These are serious violations."
((snip))
The EPO test itself also is being questioned by some scientists, which is why the 2004 study was undertaken. The L'Equipe story has renewed the scrutiny.
Canadian physician Christiane Ayotte, director of the World Anti-Doping Agency-certified lab near WADA headquarters in Montreal, told VeloNews magazine Tuesday that, "We are extremely surprised that (1999) urine samples could have been tested in 2004 and have revealed the presence of EPO. EPO in its natural state or the synthesized version is not stable in urine, even if stored at minus 20 degrees."
The test also has been recently overturned for producing false positives. Belgian triathlete Rutger Beke was cleared Aug. 9 of EPO doping charges despite two positive tests because a review showed he naturally excreted proteins that would give a positive result.
Victor Hugo Pena, Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate, said the French were bad losers who could never accept his supremacy on the Tour.
"What Lance achieved nobody can take away," Pena, who helped Armstrong to three of his seven Tour victories, told Colombia's Caracol radio Tuesday. Pena said Armstrong was so closely watched during the Tour that it would have been impossible for him to use performance-enhancing drugs.
"Not only did the sports laboratories constantly test him, but video cameras were set up in his room and police agents constantly monitored Lance's movements and who was visiting him and even his phone conversations," Pena said.
Story: Armstrong had six positives from 1999 tests
Armstrong has been at odds with French doping officials and media since his 1999 win, but he never has been linked to a positive test, a point he emphasized in his prepared rebuttal.
"The paper even admits in its own article that the science in question here is faulty and that I have no way to defend myself," Armstrong said in a statement released late Monday night. "They state: 'There will therefore be no counter-exam nor regulatory prosecutions, in a strict sense, since defendant's rights cannot be respected.' I will simply restate what I have said many times: I have never taken performance-enhancing drugs."
"The French hate Americans ..." -- No, not all of them do:
Raymond Poulidor, a popular French cycling hero and three-time Tour runner-up, was clear about his position: "This is ridiculous. Why not retroactively test all the way back to 1903?"
Armstrong returns fire about doping allegations
"How can you prosecute a guy when there have been what must be violations of the WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) code?" Armstrong asked. "The code says when there is just one sample available, that sample must always be anonymous. Second, that sample can't be used without permission. These are serious violations."
((snip))
The EPO test itself also is being questioned by some scientists, which is why the 2004 study was undertaken. The L'Equipe story has renewed the scrutiny.
Canadian physician Christiane Ayotte, director of the World Anti-Doping Agency-certified lab near WADA headquarters in Montreal, told VeloNews magazine Tuesday that, "We are extremely surprised that (1999) urine samples could have been tested in 2004 and have revealed the presence of EPO. EPO in its natural state or the synthesized version is not stable in urine, even if stored at minus 20 degrees."
The test also has been recently overturned for producing false positives. Belgian triathlete Rutger Beke was cleared Aug. 9 of EPO doping charges despite two positive tests because a review showed he naturally excreted proteins that would give a positive result.
Sounds like a pretty worthless test to me if it is as you say it is.
If the test was paid for by someone ( a newspaper wanting a scoop ) and the sample was not one of many anonomous ones but one sample from the person that the sponsors had an interest finding fault with I think there is way to much bias in the testing and the sample could even have gotten some extra components added to it to give the desired result.
These kind of tests shouldn't really be trusted unless they are performed in a way that makes it difficult to fake results and this seems to be just the opposite.
If the test was paid for by someone ( a newspaper wanting a scoop ) and the sample was not one of many anonomous ones but one sample from the person that the sponsors had an interest finding fault with I think there is way to much bias in the testing and the sample could even have gotten some extra components added to it to give the desired result.
These kind of tests shouldn't really be trusted unless they are performed in a way that makes it difficult to fake results and this seems to be just the opposite.
After looking through the opinions of an anabolics site with a discussion on the same topic, I don't think he's guilty in this particular charge. Some stuff just doesn't make sense. Quote from article " former L'Equipe journalist, Pierre Ballester, was co-author of a book published last year that contained doping allegations against Armstrong. He wrote the book with Sunday Times sportswriter David Walsh.
In the book, "L.A. Confidential, the Secrets of Lance Armstrong," one of the cyclist's former assistants claimed that Armstrong once asked her to dispose of used syringes and give him makeup to conceal needle marks on his arms"
EPO is usually administered subQ, not intravenously. And Lance would have to be an idiot to consciously choose the method that'd leave marks.
But it's not unlikely that he's used AS sometime in the past, just as much any other superathlete. Professional athletes took an extremely competitive profession, one which can be very lucrative at the top. Everything that gives the slightest edge counts, and it seems rather naive to think they'd choose abstinence when AS are so readily available and many appear undetectable. Because as long as some athlete chooses this route, if the rest wish to remain competitive, they aren't left with much choice. Just look at MLB.
In the book, "L.A. Confidential, the Secrets of Lance Armstrong," one of the cyclist's former assistants claimed that Armstrong once asked her to dispose of used syringes and give him makeup to conceal needle marks on his arms"
EPO is usually administered subQ, not intravenously. And Lance would have to be an idiot to consciously choose the method that'd leave marks.
But it's not unlikely that he's used AS sometime in the past, just as much any other superathlete. Professional athletes took an extremely competitive profession, one which can be very lucrative at the top. Everything that gives the slightest edge counts, and it seems rather naive to think they'd choose abstinence when AS are so readily available and many appear undetectable. Because as long as some athlete chooses this route, if the rest wish to remain competitive, they aren't left with much choice. Just look at MLB.
heard yesterday that the same lab found EPO in more than 40 other samples from the tour 1998 (in which Armstrong did not participate) - it was not aimed at Armstrong, but I guess part of the Tour is more a rolling farmacy... When did the last French bicyclist win btw?
Fact is that some athletes do doping - and it is fact that the methods to find doping are always a step behind. Now this semms to be an attempt to track the record back - but there are only B-samples, the A-samples do no longer exist - so you cannot ban someone because of a drug found in just one sample on the same day. They should have remained silent if it is not relevant to anti-doping rules. Of course Armstrong seemed to come to tehe top out of nothing, but they only drag a good name into the dirt.
Andreas
Fact is that some athletes do doping - and it is fact that the methods to find doping are always a step behind. Now this semms to be an attempt to track the record back - but there are only B-samples, the A-samples do no longer exist - so you cannot ban someone because of a drug found in just one sample on the same day. They should have remained silent if it is not relevant to anti-doping rules. Of course Armstrong seemed to come to tehe top out of nothing, but they only drag a good name into the dirt.
Andreas
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- 3,833
No.
Scandal is manufactured & sells papers.
Dogs always get attention by yapping.
Look at Michael Moore and "Cindy the Peace Mom"
not agreeing or disagreeing with those two- just using them as an example that if you make a stink, people will smell it.
So I am suggesting that the French reporter smells.
Anyone with me? GO LANCE! USA! USA!
Ad Astra
Scandal is manufactured & sells papers.
Dogs always get attention by yapping.
Look at Michael Moore and "Cindy the Peace Mom"
not agreeing or disagreeing with those two- just using them as an example that if you make a stink, people will smell it.
So I am suggesting that the French reporter smells.
Anyone with me? GO LANCE! USA! USA!
Ad Astra
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- 880
To lighten your reflections a tad, one of my coworkers is a Chemistry teacher, a screaming, flaming homosexual complete with long hair in ringlets, lip gloss, and pastel dress shirts and wild ties. Mr. Armstrong now wishes his straight coworkers to call him Lance, on the grounds that he can take you around the world seven times without even breathing hard. I believe it all, except for the breathing part 
It's my impression cyclists do not use dope- at least, not anywhere near the levels of other sports. Babe Ruth I'm sure has rolled over in his grave more than once because of today's celebrated home run hitters on steroids. Babe did it the old fashioned way- drunk.
munk
munk
GaWLeeee when you are right... you are right! The old fashioned way! Babe Ruth... what a legend! Exercise and work out with weights, WHY? His favorite exercise was tipping back a few... quite a few!munk said:
"Its hard to beat a person who never gives up." "If I'd tried for them dinky singles I could've batted around six hundred." "Every strike brings me closer to the next home run." "I have just one (superstition). Whenever I hit a home run, I make certain I touch all four bases." "I'd give a year of my life if I could hit a homerun on opening day of this great new park." - Babe Ruth - April 18, 1923, about the newly built Yankee Stadium.
Babe was a special character for sure!
Thanks,
iBear