Large Fixed Blade?

Sal, for a pure fighter, I'd look at Jerry HOssom's fighters, minus the recurve, and there you have it: incredibly fast in the hand, uncompromising edge geometry (backed by a steel with properties that let him thin the edge as much as possible), secure handle that indexes the blade. I'd prefer a sharp top edge; market-wise that might not be a good idea (illegal to many places), but I have a hard time taking it seriously as a fighter otherwise. Alternatively, a big fighting bowie pattern, like Bagwell's as an example, but mated to a much better handle.
 
Sal,
If you want to make a bowie, it needs to be big (9+ in my oinion), because that is what most expect from a bowie. I think that the BUMP blade design lends itself well to both MBC and utility in the 5-6 inch range. Yes, I love the blade design. If you want, I can e-mail (or post) some sketches of my ideal Spyderco 5-6 inch fixed blade. If you go with a 'classic design', it will not be noticed in the grand scheme of things (and you all know it, regardless of Spyderco's superior manufacturing, because 'the classic' designs are everywhere). This needs to be something new. It needs to be different, yet functional. It has to have style and function to succeed in a mainstream market. This is my opinion.
 
SAL,
How about something like a Walter Brend model 5 or model 2? His designs are very popular but out of reach(price) for the average Joe. I think if you could make one of his models at a more affordable price you would have a winner.
I would like to see one in 3/16 3v with a 6 to 7 inch blade.

THANKS,

ALEX
 
Full tang construction is a must on any fixed blade IMHO. I good steel is necessary but I feel that a tough steel is more important that one with superior edge retention as fixed blades see a little more hard use than folders. I think that with FRN is a great handle material for these purposes but I would have no aversion to G-10 if that's what you choose to use. I think that a blade shape unlike any previous Spyderco models is in order. Like, say, a drop point blade. Thick blade but with a full flat grind to maintain slicing ability even with the blade thickness. Other than that I leave it up to the great minds that have designed all of the previous Spydercos.
 
How about dialex's Komondor?

Blade20.jpg


I also think the blade shape of his TopTac would work well.

Blade16.jpg


Tom
 
Sal,

Whatever you come up with, I am sure it will be wonderful, and I will buy one as soon as I see it.
 
I have three fixed-blade knives in mind that I would like to see made by Spyderco.

I will discuss only one of them, now.

When Bo Randall made the first Model 1 "All-Purpose Fighting Knife" it had a perfectly straight handle with no drop or curve in it.
The knife also had (and still has) a curved depression in the spine, just forward of the substantial hilt.
Given the above, I think Bo Randall, more than anyone else in modern times, successfully interpreted James Bowie's second Bowie Knife; the one made for him by James Black.

Yes, James Bowie had two Bowie Knives.
The first, made for him by his brother Rezin Bowie, and which James used in the infamous Vidalia Sand Bar fight (I have visited Vidalia), resembled a large Butcher's Knife, or Chef's Knife, with a drop guard (no hilt) and a sharpened swedge.

James's brother Rezin had a similar knife, if not identical to the one he made for James.
We know that Rezin almost lost his thumb in a knife fight with a bull, in which Rezin's hand slid up the knife when he stabbed the bull, and thus severely injured Rezin's thumb.
This suggest to us that Rezin and James held their knives, in a fight, major edge up and swedge down.
Rezin could not have cut his thumb in any other way.

Why would they do that?

Well, if they had knives in which the center line of the grip passed through the center of mass of the blade all the way to the tip, it meant they could use the heavy, unsharpened "spine" to parry and bludgeon, while retaining the sharpened swedge for slashing and hacking; and, furthermore, with the major edge up, they had, in effect, a double-edged knife that would allow them to cut aggressively with an upward motion, such as between an adversary's legs and the inside of an adversary's thighs (femoral artery).
Such a knife, with a long, fine swedge and minimal belly, would have a substantial point, which would make it an excellent stabbing weapon.

So, why the depression in the spine just in front of the hilt?

When James Bowie decided to have a new fighting and all-purpose knife made by Arkansas knife-maker James Black, he submitted a design to Black and gave him a month or two to make it.
James Black looked at James Bowie's design and made that design and another like it, but modified according to James Black's ideas.
James Black reportedly used some meteorite in forging the blade, which means the steel had a high nickel content.
In any event, when James Bowie returned, James Black set out both knives and allowed James Bowie his choice.
Bowie selected the knife designed by Black, and not his own.

Again I ask, why the depression in the spine just in front of the hilt?

James Black intended for Bowie to crowd (choke-up on) the hilt with his hand, and wrap his index finger around and in front of the hilt, and around the depression in the spine, so that the hilt would stick out between Bowie's index and middle fingers; thus making the hilt a sub-hilt.
This would give Bowie not only better retention of the knife in a desperate melee; it would give him more power and leverage in a downward, overhand slash/bludgeon/swing/chop; and, it would also give him more power in an upward pull between his adversary's legs, or in his adversary's abdomen.

We don't have James Bowie's second (or first) Bowie Knife, because one of Santa Anna's soldiers took it from Bowie's lifeless body at the Alamo.
However, I think Bo Randall thoroughly researched the second Bowie Knife and replicated it with the first of his Model 1 "All Purpose Fighting Knife."

Bo Randall's surviving family denies this.
They say Bo never told them about the depression in the spine, nor described it as a place for the index finger.
So?
Maybe Bo didn't explain everything.

In any event, the early Model 1's had a perfectly straight handle with the blade on center with the handle, so that a Marine on Guadalcanal, fighting hand to hand in the darkness of Bloody Ridge, could have used his Model 1 major edge up, with his index finger in front of the hilt.
Advantageously, the same Marine could have held it the next morning in a conventional manner, major edge down, as a camp knife.
With a perfectly straight handle, centered on the blade and point, it works either way.

So, a Model 1, as interpreted by Spyderco, would measure 13.5" in total length.
Thirteen and a half inches corresponds to a Golem (3/4's of a Hebrew cubit), and to the average "pull" of a male human being.
The word "pull" refers to the length from the inside of the curved middle finger to the inside of the bent elbow, and the word has relevance in archery and riflery.
The Sword of Ehud in all probability measured one Golem.

This 13.5" knife would have a blade 8.343" long, a handle 5.157" long, and a sharpened swedge 3.187" long; based on the Golden Section of 1:1.618.

The knife will utilize a modern stainless, chrome-nickel steel.

It will have a symmetrical hilt and a depression in the spine for the index finger.
The knife will balance at the depression.

Sal knows a lot about the human hand, and I would expect him to design a symmetrical handle that a person could use in various modes, edge up and edge down.

:)
 
Gawd darn it I get all funny inside when I reaed Ken's writin' about the bowie knife. Hell if you build it though I will buy it, as long as it comes with a decent sheath;-)>
 
I suppose only those into MBC ought to answer this. But I couldn't help reading and adding to this thread. Many interesting ideas thrown about in here. But to me if the knife looked scary enough for a start, everyone but the foolish and over determined attacker would rather back off than to face savage animal vengence. Not a very nice prospect.
So, I have always thought this design as having "that" near ultimate tactical advantage with its "shock factor".
Ted Frizze's Assassin
(http://www.plan-a.org/mmhw/images/assain.jpg)
I would like to see added a double edge. Perhaps spyder edge on one side and PE on the other. Hoping it would be kind of like an overbuilt fixblade Civillian.
Sure its not for everyone. But that's just it, don't you see? It must appear for all intentions and purposes, a deadly weapon or it isn't one PERIOD. I wouldn't know how that fits in to the legal aspects of having one around anywhere except a dojo. But I am assuming that this would not be a self limiting factor when someone seriously considers producing "the ultimate" martial weapon. It would be something the buyer/owner/bearer of such weapons would normally consider on their own beforehand.
So Sal, please built something with 'execuive decision' ordered.

"That's not a knife. This is a knife" - Crocodile Dundee.
 
Sal, "If you build it, they will come" is all that I can say of Ken's suggestion. You would, of course, need to discuss this with the Randall people, but I am certain that two honorable companies such as Spyderco and Randall can work out the details.
 
Joe Talmadge said:
Sal, for a pure fighter, I'd look at Jerry HOssom's fighters, minus the recurve, and there you have it: incredibly fast in the hand, uncompromising edge geometry (backed by a steel with properties that let him thin the edge as much as possible), secure handle that indexes the blade. I'd prefer a sharp top edge; market-wise that might not be a good idea (illegal to many places), but I have a hard time taking it seriously as a fighter otherwise. Alternatively, a big fighting bowie pattern, like Bagwell's as an example, but mated to a much better handle.

The spyderco forum has a parallel discussion going (as many probably know), but Joe T.s suggestions here stand out to me - any discussion of a Bowie designed with MBC in mind should consider Bagwell's (with aTemperance handle ?). I've always admired Hossom's knives too. The other design that has come up is a stretched out Temperance.

The thing I would not want to see is another utility/camp design that could also be used for MBC secondarily (as could any blade). There are a lot of nice mid-sized camp knives out there (Swamp Rat Camp Tramp and its relatives, Busse Satin Jack Tac or Hell Razor, just to name a few that I've considered recently, but there are a lot). I'd like Spyderco to do something you can't get somewhere else (at least at the same quality : price ratio)!
My 0.02.

edited to get rid of the mutant smiley
 
Take the original Temperance, make the blade 5.5 - 5.75 inches long, same grind/blade profile, out of 3/16th inch D-2 or VG10 stock and a full tang that extends slightly below the flat (but slightly thick) G10 scales. Same basic handle shape but with less hook at the bottom. Basically a bigger, flatter, tougher version of the original. Kydex sheath with small Teklok.

Alternately, if you want something that might have broader military/LEO appeal, what about a fixed blade Chinook with a double guard and metal butt cap roughly the size of an old Pilot/Survival knife? Roughly 5 inch blade, good coated carbon steel of some type to keep it cheaper and make it easy to sharpen, sabre/hollow ground so that it 'looks' right, G10 scales again, all the metal fitting either very matte finished or blackened. Combination kydex/cordura sheath.
 
if the knife looked scary enough for a start, everyone but the foolish and over determined attacker would rather back off than to face savage animal vengence

Respectfully, "intimidation factor" is a foolish thing to rely on, and a legal liability. If one is forced to use a blade in a self-defense situation, the aggressor should not know a blade is in play until their lights are fading.

Seems to me a big hacker is already coming, so this knife should be more useful in other ways. A large Loveless-style classic hunter* (5.5-6" blade) could also fulfill a MBC function, and it'll have clean lines and useful in general. A Spyderco version should have a tough handle (there are plenty of pretty versions; this should be a real user) and a slightly longer guard.

*model shown has shorter blade, as do most of these

John
 
Like Ken, I think the pattern on the Randall 1 is awesome for a fighter (although I hate all of Randall's handle variations). However, there are plenty of other Randall 1 clones -- Cold Steel has a copy, and the Blackjack 1-7 has just been re-released -- so my only comment is that I'm not sure what Spyderco would bring to the table in reproducing it. No doubt a classic fighter design, though.
 
I still think that Spyderco has to come up with 'something different'. Yes, Randall designs have stood the test of time. Bagwell's bowies are awesome. To me, though, they've been done already (obviously). A Hossom collaboration would be great. How about having Joe Pirela design something? His work is greatly admired in the 'limited edition' collector knives (and he designs some great blades). Actually, that's my choice; Joe Pirela. No BIG manufaturer has tapped him yet (that I know of). Regardless, I sincerely hope that Sal will go with 3V for a fixed blade over 5 inches; it's a great steel, judging from my personal experience.
 
Joe said:
...I'm not sure what Spyderco would bring to the table in reproducing it...

I can relate to that.
Why do it all over again if Randall has already done it?

Well, I think Spyderco would bring a technically more perfect CNC'd blade to the market, with a truly useful stainless steel (several options), which Randall, with their commitment to forging (440A), has not done.

Further, as Joe points out, the handle needs work.
Spyderco does that very well, perhaps better than anyone.
 
I like where the ideas posted above are leading. I do enjoy Ken's reasoning, as I use a bowie knife in the same method, but knew very little about the deduced points explained. And Vidalia isn't far from where I live, as I reside in Louisiana.

My preference for the steel would be D2 currently.
 
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