Larry Chew - good or bad? You decide!

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hardys

hardys

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Larry Chew made me a fantastic Spitfire about 4 months ago for $475.00. A week or so later, my friend showed me a new model Slayer that Larry made. Liking the Slayer more, I called Larry and asked if he'd take back the Spitfire in return for a Slayer. He said no problem, as he could quickly sell mine and in turn quickly make my new one. He also mentioned that he'd send pictures of the scale wood for my approval. I sent the Spitfire back and all seemed OK.

A fair amount of time passed, so I sent some emails and called him over the next few months to see when I'd get my knife. He gave me multiple target dates, but the knife never arrived as promised and he never notified me as to why no knife was shipped. I'd have to re-contact him for an explination each time.

Two weeks ago, we spoke on the phone and he promised to have it finished on the 8th or 9th of August. He also offered to give me a full refund, but I chose the knife. I still never got the knife, so being completely frustrated, I sent an email yesterday. The following is the exact text of my email. After that is his exact email response. Please read both and tell me and other members what you think.
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MY EMAIL TO LARRY:

Larry, you told me that you would have my knife completed on either August 8th or 9th, but I haven't seen the knife and you have not replied to my two previous emails or phone call left on your answering machine. It's been approximately three months since you accepted the return of the Redwood Spitfire and agreed to make me a slayer in exchange. You've told me that you were working on it, but I've seen nothing. I now am requesting my $475.00 refund ASAP.

It appears you take me for some kind of schmuck. You call me on the phone, tell me what I want to hear, and then completely ignore me. The least you could have done was notified me that the knife was delayed. When we last spoke on the phone and you offered me either the knife or a refund, I really wanted the cash, but I felt bad for your circumstances and opted for the Slayer instead. I hoped the profit would help you out on getting your new house and shop in order. Hey, maybe I am a schmuck!

You mentioned before that being self employed limited your finances and that you were pressed to pay me. IMHO being self employed also means having responsibility to your customers. Please send me a Money order or certified check for $475.00 to the following address:

Stephen Hardy
1906 Oak Tree Lane
Mt. Pleasant, SC 29464

My wife manages "The Steinberg Law Firm" in Charleston and I can easily take legal action on this. I can also go to the knife forums and write some nasty posts and go to PayPal and raise a little hell. I DON'T want to do this. I DO want my money back in no uncertain terms.
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LARRY'S RESPONSE TO MY EMAIL:

Steve,

this is the first time I have had access to my email in weeks. I never took you as a schmuck. I have been doing everything I can to take care of everyone. Yes you have been inconvienced. I was in the shop today for the first time in almost a week. I spent most of the day finishing your knife. I will finish it tomorrow and send it either tomorrow or friday depending on what time I get out of the shop.

You will get the knife, not a refund. If that is not ok then kiss my ass.

Larry
_________________________________

So ladies and gentleman of the jury, what say ye? Good or bad?
 
As a bystander, not a juror ...

At this level, this hobby of ours is only for fun. If you need something to cut with, there's always Ginsu. It hurts me to see when it isn't fun anymore, for anyone.

I'm sorry you've been disappointed in Larry -- I don't know him, never even handled one of his knives -- but I wish you hadn't printed those e-mails. No one can expect e-mails to remain private, but everyone should be able to ... your argument was solid up to that point, so the threats and the cursing were an unnecessary downer added to an already tense situation.

I think you should take the knife and be happy with it, even if that means selling it right away. I'm sorry, too, that Larry's had problems that kept him from finishing a knife he obviously wanted to get done.
 
Private emails should stay private.

A small business is just that, a small business. Knifemaking, as a one-person business is even more difficult. It isn't a life-threatening or even money-threating issue for you at all.

No, no one is happy with waiting, especially when a promised date is missed.

But as said above, it's not like you are not going to be able to make dinner tonight without that knife.
 
hardys ugly...

Never, ever, ever post private emails publicly...it shows lack of a sound argument, immaturity, and poor upbringing...

That said, you're getting a customized knife made to your specifications, from one of the best...

Yes, waiting sucks, and lack of regular communication sucks even more...but if I'd received an email like the one you sent Larry, I too would've told you to kiss my ass...

That's just how it's done...

D.B.C.

--edited to add-- "That's 'moe-ron' to you hardys, and right, wrong, or indifferent; posting private emails in a public forum is bad form, and completely undermines any argument that you 'may' have had...IMNSHO" ;)
 
Thanks for your responses guys. Good to here from you and I appreciate the opinions. Since this is a forum though, I'm going to reply to you in good ol' American forum style.

1) The reason I posted the emails was so nobody reading this post would be misled and the true verbage, be it email or oral, would be questioned as little as possible. I also whished to caution other perspective knife buyers with the facts of what they may encounter on thier next purchase.

2) No, I was not in a "life-threatening" position, but you don't know my financial situation (good or bad) Architect, nor should you presume to. How many forum members out there have been forced to sell knives they loved, to pay for an unexpected crisis? I had no options. My $475.00 was tied up for close to 4 months.

3) Nobody in business, large or small, should tell a customer to kiss his ass. What ever happened to "The customer is always right"? Also,
how can a retailer offer a refund one day and on a whim, refuse it the next? I wouldn't want to do business with somebody like that knowingly.

Just my humble opinion guys.
 
3) Nobody in business, large or small, should tell a customer to kiss his ass. What ever happened to "The customer is always right"?
Click to expand...

First, the customer is always right as long as the maker needs them. So If I the maker have way more customers than I need, then they generally are not quite as right.

Second, what ever happened to resolving issues without threatening action by an attorney?:barf: Yes, you are handling this issue in good ol' American fashion.

Finances - well, we are all free to do what we want with our money. I wouldn't be throwing around $500 on a luxury item like a Chew knife if I hadn't already covered my ass elsewise.

Look, the guy did you a big favor by even taking back the Spitfire in the first place. If you tried to sell it, you would have taken a loss. Probably, a fair large loss by dollars or percentage. So in fact you got way the better end of this deal, presuming the maker eventually delivers.
 
Well, things can be handled many ways and opinions are different on Posting emails. Emails are just text and in this case posting it may have shown more insight than if Stephen just "stated" he said "kiss my ass". While it may not have very tactful, he made his point. Larry's email could have been more tactful too. I wonder why the statement had to even be made....Just say the knife is done and I can't offer a refund. Why make a personal comment like that when you don't have to.
I have had to cancel an order before after waiting 7-8 months and the last 2 months or so of emails had a very "strained" tone to them due to the feeling that I was making no progress in getting my knife.
I understand Stephen feeling like he Had To post something about this because you can tie up a lot of time and end up feeling like you got the shaft....
I don't think either person was actually "wrong", but a little Tact on both sides, could have gone a long way.
Just an opinion, thanks.
Shannon
 
Yes, it can appear that Larry did me a big favor by taking the knife back, but knowing his status as a maker, he probably sold it in the next few days and had $475.00 back in his pocket. Was it that BIG of a favor, considering he used my money for months.

It appears that your argument is slanted towards knife makers in general and because of that, standard business practices go out the window. Because some of the top makers are "god like" to many knife nuts, nobody wants to hold thier feet to the fire.

Let's use this simple scenario. You give a mom & pop carpet shop $475.00 for a custom made Virsoski rug. For 4 months you "nicely" ask them for the rug, but you get only promises. What are your alternatives? Would you not be inclined to threaten them with small claims court?

Please note I did not go to an attorney, which I could have easily done long before, at no charge. This was a last ditch effort to get my rug.

I've told this story to friends who don't care about knives and don't have a clue about the knife world. They just see it as an over-the- phone, out-of-state transaction. They all agree that the seller should have done more. Here on the forums, all things are skewed by how the members view the maker at any given time.

Remember when Brad Duncan walked on water and his knives were golden? He then said some things in a magazine interview that pissed some people off and suddenly he and his knives were considered garbage. All just perception.

I bet if Brad Duncan was the one I was complaining about, many members would be sending me thank yous for slamming him.

We need to hold the makers resting on thier laurels feet to the fire. It can only help improve service for us, the buyers. I've talked to too many other knife nuts who have been promised things without delivery.
 
Your analogy is flawed...

A more correct analogy would have been to say that you'd purchased a custom rug, and soon after decided that you'd rather have a different rug.

So you approached the person that you'd purchased the first rug from, asked them to take it back and give you full credit at the original purchase price, and also asked if they would make you the other rug, and deliver it to you for no additional charge...

Then, after 4 months, when you still haven't received your newest rug, you got pissed and wrote them a 'nasty gram' where you threatened (implied) a lawsuit if they didn't give you back your (now owed) $475...

Now, that's what you meant to say wasn't it hardys? :rolleyes:

D.B.C.

--edited cuz I can't 'pell--
 
I was in a similar situation with a maker last year. I took delivery of a knife and it wasn't what I expected. My fault, not the makers. I asked the maker if he would take it back in exchange for another model. He agreed as long as I got him the knife before an approaching show. No problem. I then had to wait for him to make me a new knife. It took approximately the maker's normal wait to get the new knife. Made sense to me! I had no knife and he had my money. I still felt that he was doing me a service.

If you were returning the knife and getting back one the maker had on-hand then it would be different. But you are upset about a 12 week wait on a custom order from a good maker?

Nobody likes to wait and when delivery keeps getting pushed back it's a drag. Doesn't seem like a GB&U issue, though.
 
There have been some and insightful replies to my posts DB.... unfortunately, your is not one of them. You're out of your league.:yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
 
Hello 92degrees. Glad you could make it and good point. The thing that is being overlooked here (perhaps I didn't make it clear) is that I was promised delivery in a few weeks, not months.
 
Hardys, I agree you've been screwed by LC even if it wasn't intentional- in fact I have no reason to blieve LC intended to not hold up his end, but then some pressing things came along, your knife goes lower down the priority list, more things come, etc........ Still no excuse for LC's behavior.
HOWEVER I agree it is very tacky and inapproprate to post private emails, esp since this has some personal informations in it. Even more tacky is bit about going to a lawyer:barf:
"My wife works for them, I can sue you":rolleyes: Come on, yes its a $475 knife but threatening legal action then expecting us to support THAT? Sorry, in my book that's just a little too mommy for me-
Martin
 
You had Larry make you a knife to YOUR specs, then asked him to take it back and make you a DIFFERENT ONE?? Who put YOU at the top of his list?? :grumpy: Waaaahhhhhh, where's my new knife!

You BLEW IT when you threatened a well-known and well-liked knifemaker, and you BLEW IT when you took the dirt PUBLIC. By the sound of YOUR side of the story, Larry already went out of his way to get your pesty ass off his back and satisfied.

Cooper, ya said it right the first time.........
 
hardys,

You ask for people's opinions, yet don't like them when you hear them. It's because they are truthful, and condemn your behavior rather than the knifemaker's.

You ask for a knife, then ask if you can return it because you saw another model you liked more, and return it, while the knifemaker is being completely accommodating. Because you don't get your new knife right away (these things happen with customs from makers in high demand), you resort to childish behavior, swearing, and threatening with law suits (totally obnoxious).

You then post your insulting email, followed by the knifemaker's response, on these public forums.

If you don't want to look like an ass.hole, then don't act like one.
Learn from this one.
 
Mr. Chew did you a favor Mr. Hardy ... You obviously liked the first knife and it was not flawed as you describe it as being "fantastic."

You then got buyers remorse as you found something you liked better after the fact. Mr. Chew then took your knife back for full value. That was nice of him and it certainly wasn't required.

Larry fufilled his end of the "contract" .. I throw that in there so no one at the Steinberg law office in SC will be confused ... Larry did not "owe" you anything else at that point. You requested a different knife in exchange for a perfectly good one that fully satisfied the requirements of your original order.

The full time makers I deal with stand fully behind their work. If there is something wrong with it or it was not made "as ordered" ... they will make another to satisfy their customer ... some will also refund the money to rid themselves of a particularly troublesome customer. ie those who never seem to be satisfied.

It is unfortunate you have had to wait longer than you expected or wanted...It is always good business to keep on schedule and to stick to your word. It is also never good to state "If that is not ok then kiss my ass." However, you threatening him does not make for very cordial relations.

However, it appears there were extenuating circumstances that you knew of as you state "I felt bad for your circumstances." You continued to agree to wait for the new knife.

Four months is not that long and certainly does not raise the spectre of fraud or malfeasence. Hardly worthy of a post here as you know you will soon get it.

I don't think Mr. Chew likes you very much anymore.

I don't blame him.

You are going to get your new knife. You may not want it anymore but you ordered it ... twice, don't forget .... it is always good to know what you want prior to the actual making of a handmade knife.
 
I am also waiting for a Chew - and it has been LONG due.

still - I prefer waiting, as this is a one of a kind knife from a one of a kind maker.

given the circumstances he has been going through - I don't even blame him.

posting private emails with a knife maker is twice as ugly.
 
Just my opinion...
Learn to be a little more patient. You will realize it was not the thing to do posting those emails. As for the lawyer part ... not a smart move. No surprise he got upset.
When you have a knife made by a obvioulsy busy maker, prepare to wait. You will have your knife after like 4 months wait??? That's friggin fast.
 
Hardy,

It sounds like your temperment and patience level is better suited for knife shows or production knives. One-man custom shops run into all types of issues, problems and delays beyond their control. That is the nature of the beast. Makers become backlogged, components and steel become unavailable and people get sick, hurt or have family emergencies.

Larry erred in giving you dates that he could not make, but guess what this is all about a knife, not a mechanical heart. You do not need it to survive!

It is too bad you soured this deal, you will love your Chew knife.They are one of a kind! Its too bad that every time you look at it now you will get a bad taste in your mouth that could have been avoided if you had a bit more faith and a lot more patience.
 
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