Las Vegas Antique Arms & Knife Collector's Show

Kohai999

Second Degree Cutter
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
12,554
Guys,

I'll be brief and to the point.

I thought this show sucked balls! Arguably the worst show that I have EVER attended. Sadly, this is not due to the quality of the makers, there were some true greats in the room; Jerome Anders, Pat & Wes Crawford, Steve Fecas, Grant and Gavin Hawk, W.C. Johnson, Simon Lytton, Devin Thomas, Art Washburn, the list goes on.

I attended with Matt Diskin and Anthony Marfione Jr. of Microtech on Saturday, between 1:00 and 3:00 pm.

The hours were the same as the SHOT show.

Strike 1-There are MAJOR buyers at a show, in town for a specific reason, with the financial interest and ability to buy, but they are there for the SHOT show, not the other show. Having the hours of say 10 or 11 am until 8:00 pm would have put more interested buyers in the knife/antique showroom, I guarantee that most SHOT attendees did not venture over to Mandalay Bay. It took over 1 1/2 hours to get from the front door of the SHOT show to the front door of the Antique Arms show and back(combined), that is without even going into the show.

Strike 2-The show was in the BACK of the hotel, it must have been a 1/4 mile walk just to get there from the front door. Security wanted you to check knives that you were bringing in with you, marking them with a sticker or something, for some stupid reason. Screw a pile of that, I just walked through the door. My name tag said Joe Maima, I wanted to see who actually knew my name/face.:D

Strike 3- The lighting was adequate, but the overall feel of the show was neither elegant, nor folksy. It was like a high-end flea market.

Sorry, Mr. Beinfield, but yer out!

I won't go back, neither will many makers that I know. It just seemed like a big waste of time and money.

I'll tell you all a kicker, that does not work for me.

John Young whose work I like and own, had about 6 pieces for sale, and was definitely a sought after maker at this show. He was getting hit on hard by purveyors and collectors the night before the show, wanting to buy everything he had. My buddy Adam made sure that John's table was the first one that he visited when the show opened, and was then informed that the knives were to be raffled off, Horn/Emerson/Onion style. Dan Delavan drew 2 of the knives. That is 30% of the possibility.

Coincidence? I think not. I like John Young, and I also like Dan Delavan, but I think this situation does not pass the smell test!:mad:

What solution do I offer? The same one that Dan Farr has employed, successfully at the last two shows that I have attended where he has been. No pre-sales, not to anyone. First ones to the table get choice of the knives, but only after the show has opened, VIP or not. Ethically, this is MUCH more fair than what happened at Las Vegas. I am interested to see what happens at the Evening of the Cutlery Arts in Huntington Beach this year. I'll keep you all posted.

Best Regards,

Steven Garsson
 
Just a question since I wasn't there. Is it one entry per person or can you stand there and fill out a hundred? I guess I have my answer if the person you mentioned got drawn 4 times?

My point as a dealer is that I don't mind the drawing as long as there are rules and the rules are clear and followed.

Phillip
 
notdos said:
Just a question since I wasn't there. Is it one entry per person or can you stand there and fill out a hundred? I guess I have my answer if the person you mentioned got drawn 4 times?

My point as a dealer is that I don't mind the drawing as long as there are rules and the rules are clear and followed.

Phillip

It was supposed to be one person, one entry, from the way that it was explained to me. 1 was for Dan, 1 was for Pam, Dan's wife.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
More Good News about the Show!

It will be held a little earlier next year....Jan 4,5,6!

That should add to the desireability of the show! LOL
 
Bobby Branton said:
Also, I believe the SHOT show will be in Orlando in 2007

Bobby, I think WWG's comment was tongue-in-cheek.

Yes, SHOT will be in Orlando next year. That still is not going to make this show any better. I am sticking a fork in this one, and pronouncing it DONE.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Bobby's right the SHOT goes to Orlando next year.

My take on the show. I knew from the outset that John Young was going to have a lottery, no problem with that. I believe Dan and his wife got two of the 5 knives John had available. There was a chute and a fighter that were on the table but were orders he was delivering.

The venue was a tough call. It's a very large room and the custom knives had to share it with the Antique Arms Show. That show is really just a big gun show and includes anything that fires a projectile.

I stayed at the Luxor and it was pretty good hike to the Mandalay Bay Convention Center. I needed the excercise so it was no big deal.

What I didn't like was when I heard people were let in Thursday evening for $50.00. Several makers complained that they didn't know and would have liked an opportunity to get some of that money. Sucks to get to the show early only to find people had been able to buy the night before. I know this goes on in makers rooms/bars at all shows but this was different.

What I did learn at the show was that Bill Ankrom makes a killer Chute knife.
I immediatey ordered one in Stag. He also had an "urban" Bowie in Stag that I should have bought. It was sold when I went back.

I, also, got drawn for a knife in the Onion lottery and got the the last folder.
That made the show an outstanding success for me!

Steven, I really would have liked to have met you.

Win
 
Kohai999 said:
Bobby, I think WWG's comment was tongue-in-cheek.

Yes, SHOT will be in Orlando next year. That still is not going to make this show any better. I am sticking a fork in this one, and pronouncing it DONE.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

I realized that was what he was saying. I was saying that with SHOT in Orlando, it would be less incentive to go to Vegas.
 
Win Heger said:
My take on the show. I knew from the outset that John Young was going to have a lottery, no problem with that. I believe Dan and his wife got two of the 5 knives John had available. There was a chute and a fighter that were on the table but were orders he was delivering.

I stayed at the Luxor and it was pretty good hike to the Mandalay Bay Convention Center. I needed the excercise so it was no big deal.

What I didn't like was when I heard people were let in Thursday evening for $50.00. Several makers complained that they didn't know and would have liked an opportunity to get some of that money. Sucks to get to the show early only to find people had been able to buy the night before. I know this goes on in makers rooms/bars at all shows but this was different.

I, also, got drawn for a knife in the Onion lottery and got the the last folder.
That made the show an outstanding success for me!

Steven, I really would have liked to have met you.

Win

Win,

I have corrected the statements above.

My advice, never, ever trust information from a drunk newbie.

I DID NOT know about the lottery, and I spoke to John 2 1/2 weeks ago to see what he was bringing to the show. It has been confirmed that there were 6 knives for sale. If Dan & Pam drew 2 of them, that is 30% of the take. I stand by my original statement on that one, it stinks!

As a dealer, all I can say is, I would have tossed one of those fish back, but that is me, we'll leave it at that.

The walk was a major problem if you were walking the SHOT show too. A mile walk is exercise. A 10 mile walk on concrete is a little bit of torture.

Had not heard the information about Thursday night, thanks for that bit. Thanks for the information on the Ankrom chute knife as well. I caught Bill JUST as he got home this afternoon and ordered a 5.5" chute from him, maybe ready for the Evening of the Cutlery Arts, maybe not.:)

Good job on the Onion lottery!

I would have liked to have met you too!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
I thought this show sucked balls! Arguably the worst show that I have EVER attended.

Come on, Steven - tell us what you really think. :D :D :D

Thanks for the frank feedback. I hate lotteries at shows. When I hurry my ass to make sure I'm number one at a table, I want to be able to pick what I want. The way a show works is everybody can choose how to spend their time. At the Reno ABS show (not this year, but the previous ones), I was at the door before 8am (knowing the show opens at 11am), to be absolutely sure I'd be first at a certain table. Others might choose to take it easy and not get first pick - it's their choice.

I like lotteries for pieces offered to an email list, like Jerry Fisk does for his monthly piece. IMHO, this is perfectly appropriate there and is actually optimal.
 
I went to the show this year. I bought a fixed blade from Bud Nealy and talked to Tom Mayo and Scott Cook. I agree getting around in Vegas is a nightmare and it was quite a hike even when you get to the hotel. It was better this year only in the sense that this year they (security) didn't tag and tape shut my large Seb. But this year I saw no left hand folders and that's good for my pocketbook!;)
 
To me lotteries even the playing field. I can't tell you how many people I knew had passes, exhibitor or guest for this show! With no lottery there would have been no chance for a Young.

I was at Solvang last year and witnessed the Boguszewski fiasco. No lottery, limit one knife per customer after the doors opened. I got there two hours early and was 20 something in line. The doors opened and I almost got knocked over by the rush to Phil's table. When I got there peolple were pushing and shoving for the opportunity to get a knife, the rudest happening I've seen at a show. The answer is a lottery like Jess Horn, Steve Johnson, Ernie Emerson, Ken Onion and John Young.

I heard from someone that John had dealers hitting on him Thursday nite and he held out for the lottery. I know John pretty well and there is no way there was anything underhanded about the lottery.

Win
 
My thoughts on the whole weekend, AWESOME! I dont get a table at this show because there is so much to see and do in one long weekend! Iam sad to hear the SHOT show will not be there next year. I did see signs at the SHOT show saying that it will be in Los Angeles next year not Orlando.

The gun show is one of my favorites, I had a good time there and always do.

The knife show was a blast with decent room to get through the tables without being too crowded.Lots of great makers with great knives! I used to be the first few guys through the door but now prefer the lotto system for the hard to get makers. I always get my wife to enter too, I dont see a problem with two people in the same family getting pulled, its just luck and it happens all the time. If you paid for a cab back and fourth from SHOT it takes about 20min and they can let you off at the back entrance which is right around the corner from the knife/gunshow entrance not a bad walk at all.

There were a few bullshit things at the show, one was buying your entry ticket what a MESS! I got there when the doors opened and it was not a problem, but 5 min later and the line was WAY down the lobby with a long wait.This was a problem last year even when the ticket counter was outside the show with ten times the room, I dont know what the hell they were thinking here? I got there a day early(Thurs) and they would not sell me my$35 three day pass to get in the show the next morning.They would sell me a $90 ticket to get in a day early(Thurs) but most of the makers didnt even know about this and hardly anyone was set up early to sell knives. Tagging your knives you brought into the show? What a freaking joke! A waste of time that did nothing to keep someone from walking out with a stolen knife, I was never checked when I left the show, ever.

Overall it was a good time, since the SHOT show is not in Vegas next year I might get a table, might not. The show is moving to the Riv. I went to the Antique gun show here before and its worse than the Mandalay Bay by far.The show is far away from the rooms and the walkways are narrow and always filled with people, drunks,screaming kids,etc...Just as bad if not worse as Circus Circus. This has the possibility of being a world class show if the feedback was listened too and just a few things were changed.
 
Steven,

I don't know how we missed ya bud, but somehow we did...

This was our first Vegas show, and it will certainly be the last. We got in late on Thursday night via American West and my lovely wife promptly sprained her ankle coming down the jetway steps to the tarmac...

Friday was a 'no go' for her early on so I went solo, with her to join me later; after the 1/4 mile walk I hit a line of several hundred people at 9:05 AM (a half hour later there were prolly 500 people in line behind me)...wait in line, fill out your entry form, check your knives, get badged, and waste nearly a full hour; just to get in...

A few hours, a few dollars, and a few knives later 'bidness' was done...the rest of the day, and part of the rest was spent just visiting. Saturday it was a dead zone by lunch, so I hit the slot machines. The good news is that I hit large enough at the end to pay for most of the trip...but not large enough that I'd ever want to go to 'that' show again...

Knife shows and knife people I like, human zoo's I do not... :rolleyes:

Shel
 
The whole ticket buying/entry process was a joke. It was ridiculous to see people standing there as long as they did. I always enjoy the show nonetheless, because there's some folks who don't make it to BLADE and that's the only time you get to see them!
 
I lost interest in knifeshows a long time ago after knowing that I was paying to get in to see some knives only to find out that the reason there were no knives on certain tables is because of pre-sale transactions between the makers and their buddies and purveyors, which occurs well before the doors to the shows are opened to the paying public.:mad:

See my thread I started here way back when.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271703
 
My experience with knifeshows in general is good--I like to go just to see a maker's work firsthand to see if I want to order something (if I have not seen the work before).

However, I will not go to a knife show in which I have to "check" my knives in any way. Any show that is run by people who don't understand that will lose my business -- and I will not go to ANY event held in that venue. If they like the the "security" that much--well, let the "security" folks buy the knives.:mad:

As always, Steven, thanks for the repeort and headsup.
 
Win Heger said:
To me lotteries even the playing field. I can't tell you how many people I knew had passes, exhibitor or guest for this show! With no lottery there would have been no chance for a Young.

I heard from someone that John had dealers hitting on him Thursday nite and he held out for the lottery. I know John pretty well and there is no way there was anything underhanded about the lottery.

Win

I had posted that John was getting hit hard by dealers Thursday night, Win. It is easy to say "NO".

This is what Dan posted on the Plaza Cutlery site (edited to include the pertinent sentiment) "I did receive one knife from John for delivery and Pam and I were each drawn in the lottery. I almost put one back but the last 2 years other then an Emerson and Chamblin we were never drawn."

Ok, fair enough, but still salt in the wounds of the 60 other some odd people who wanted a Young knife, some of whom traveled to the show just for the possibility.

I guess it is one of those "no one really wins" situations.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Back
Top