LC200N vs Vanax Superclean

tyyreaun said:
Thanks for the links! I don't think anyone ever claimed Cedric and Ada performs fully controlled scientific experiments, but Pete's results are better than most of the guesswork out there.

I'll check out the channel you sent, but there may be a language barrier... I'm trying to decipher the XLSX file, too, and even that's pretty confusing - which column shows the results?
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10,11 column are number of cuts 20mm rope , at the very top of the list the columns are clearly marked in English
http://www.fotogaleria.sandor.sk/ine/ostrie/Vysledky_testov30.pdf
test results using the old method of hand cutting, blade with a total of 30 degrees
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7TfQWLkUv9sVVNTWWJqSndWaGs
results, comparisons and a detailed description of the new test method
 
chumaman said:
10,11 column are number of cuts 20mm rope , at the very top of the list the columns are clearly marked in English
Click to expand...
I was looking at those columns earlier, but I figured they couldn't be test results because of the wildly inconsistent values. Like, how did the Benchmade 581 go from 70 cuts to 2000? I'm guessing the answer is in the notes, or the video, but those aren't in English ;)
 
Just wanted to throw an update up.

I've commissioned two identical blades from ShannonSteelLabs ShannonSteelLabs , one in Vanax and one in Z-Finit (LC200N) for testing, which should be ready soon. Identical geometry, both heat treated by Peter's, so hopefully most variables will be removed.

In the meantime, I did pick up a Vanax blade from @bluntcut, heat treated to 60.5 HRC, and a Spyderco LC200N mule. I did some corrosion testing on them - results here (including subsequent posts further down the thread):
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...is-that-possible.1554938/page-4#post-17900115

The Vanax laughed at my silly salt water. The LC200N didn't fare as well, but with a lot of caveats mentioned in the link above.

I passed the mule on to a new home and did some additional testing on the Vanax:
  • Current geometry is a saber grind measuring 0.015" behind the edge
  • I reprofiled it on a KME to 18 DPS, up through 1500 grit diamond stones and then stropping
  • I took an old household power extension cable and started chopping it up. Not sure on the gauge - standard indoor-only cable
After a dozen clean cuts, there's absolutely no edge damage. Running my thumbnail across the area I was cutting with doesn't reveal anything - it feels perfectly smooth. It still shaves hair easily.

Good stuff so far!
 
tyyreaun said:
Just wanted to throw an update up.

I've commissioned two identical blades from ShannonSteelLabs ShannonSteelLabs , one in Vanax and one in Z-Finit (LC200N) for testing, which should be ready soon. Identical geometry, both heat treated by Peter's, so hopefully most variables will be removed.

In the meantime, I did pick up a Vanax blade from @bluntcut, heat treated to 60.5 HRC, and a Spyderco LC200N mule. I did some corrosion testing on them - results here (including subsequent posts further down the thread):
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...is-that-possible.1554938/page-4#post-17900115

The Vanax laughed at my silly salt water. The LC200N didn't fare as well, but with a lot of caveats mentioned in the link above.

I passed the mule on to a new home and did some additional testing on the Vanax:
  • Current geometry is a saber grind measuring 0.015" behind the edge
  • I reprofiled it on a KME to 18 DPS, up through 1500 grit diamond stones and then stropping
  • I took an old household power extension cable and started chopping it up. Not sure on the gauge - standard indoor-only cable
After a dozen clean cuts, there's absolutely no edge damage. Running my thumbnail across the area I was cutting with doesn't reveal anything - it feels perfectly smooth. It still shaves hair easily.

Good stuff so far!
Click to expand...
This should be pretty awesome when they are done!!
Both knives are ready for Heat treat and should be going out next week to peters.
 
Any update on this thread? This has been one of the more fascinating discussions I've been following lately and I'd really like to get some more concrete data.
 
Been a while since any updates on this front - heat treat took a while, I guess with backups around Blade Show. Happy to report, though, that the test LC200N and Vanax blades have been completed, courtesy of ShannonSteelLabs ShannonSteelLabs :
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bk55Wmbg7OC/?taken-by=shannonsteellabs

When sending them off to heat treat, Colin had requested 60HRC for both. They came back as 59HRC for the LC200N, 60-61HRC for the Vanax. That'll throw off the tests a bit, but hopefully not too badly. I guess it does show that Vanax can achieve higher hardness more easily than LC200N. I believe LC200N caps at around 60HRC, while I've seen Vanax reported to be as high as 63. Given that the Rockwell scale is logarithmic, that's a sizeable difference.

Both blades were shaped and ground identically, to avoid differences due to geometry. There was also a theory that some reported staining on Spyderco LC200N mules was due to contamination with different steels while grinding. To avoid that, at my request Colin used fresh belts on these knives. While I don't necessarily personally buy the contamination theory, that does remove some uncertainty.

Just now, Pete over at @cedric.ada has confirmed he received the blades. Time permitting, he'll be performing edge retention, toughness, and corrosion resistance tests, per his standard protocols. Stay tuned!

Edited to add: Pete will be posting his testing videos, with results, here: https://www.youtube.com/user/CedricAda
 
Yea I was watching his live last night (morning in australia) where he unboxed them. Nice lookin blades. Will be an interesting test. But yea from 59 to 60-1 is a large leap as each point is actually alot more. So vanax may end up getting a little higher retention... But that's just an assumption based on the minor data we have already.
 
Mo2 said:
Yea I was watching his live last night (morning in australia) where he unboxed them. Nice lookin blades. Will be an interesting test. But yea from 59 to 60-1 is a large leap as each point is actually alot more. So vanax may end up getting a little higher retention... But that's just an assumption based on the minor data we have already.
Click to expand...

I'll make my bets right now - Vanax will beat LC200N/Z-Finit in all three, edge retention, hardness, and corrosion resistance. Toughness will be the closest call of the three, but given Bohler's claims, and the fact it uses much more modern production technology (PM vs. ingot) I'm putting my chips on Vanax.

The only catch might be that hardness is the hardest of the three properties to test in a consistent manner.
 
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tyyreaun said:
FYI most of the videos are up on Pete's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/CedricAda/videos

Vanax seems to be performing very similar to M390, per Pete's assessment. And actually, I hadn't realized it before, but looking at the recipes, Vanax is basically M390 with most of the carbon replaced with nitrogen:
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=vanax, m390&hrn=1&gm=0

Good stuff!
Click to expand...

That's an interesting observation, because I always thought Vanax was just a Nitrogen version of Elmax!
 
Vanax is a beast! It appeared than some of the blades in Cedric and Ada’s review exhibited rust from the logo etchings. On the Spyderco subforum some have even seen rust come from the logos on H1 blades. Once cleaned up, rust is not seen again. I wonder if that played a part in Pete’s (I believe that his his name) review.
 
Does Vanax sharpen up similar to Elmax? I find Lc200N a breeze to sharpen.
 
Fiddleback Forge Bushfinger in A2. I own about six of their blades. While they are gorgeous, they are real performers. Feather stick curls magically appear when I put it to wood. It’s such an easy knife to complete those types of tasks with.
 
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