Leather sheaths!!

komondor said:
Hi Dwayne,

Yup, I'm back. It was nice of you to offer me your sheath. Very classy. However, you just couldn't let it rest, huh?

Your problem, Dwayne, is exactly the same as morimotom's: you think you are automatically entitled to my respect. Neither one of you get my respect until you deserve it.

You did NOTHING in this thread to earn my respect until you offered me your sheath. And then I graciously acknowledged your offer with my genuine sentiments. Now you throw it back in my face? So much for wanting "no need to carry this further down into a mess" as you described earlier. :rolleyes:

Who's the passive-aggressive now, pal? :rolleyes:

Like I said earlier, and which has been clearly proven, this thread quickly became nothing more than a bunch of dog-piling by your self-admitted buddies coming in here to attack me. Had I not needed to defend myself, I would have acknowledged your kind offer prior to your buddy's reminder.

But let's be clear here, you maintained a supercilious air throughout this entire affair, including your offer. Your arrogance is showing too, buddy, don't kid yourself.

I commend all of the other Busse forumites for not throwing in their two cents, no matter how badly they wanted to.
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K-Mon,

I wasn't piling on. I was just hoping to lighten things up with a joke.

I do stand by what I said though, you should've taken the free sheath. Also, if this is some kinda social experiment to see how like-minded people respond to provocation - and you've somehow made a point that people will defend their own - then why refuse the free sheath? I just don't understand, you coulda made your point and received a free leather sheath! Win Win scenario. Winner winner chicken dinner as they say in VEGAS. NOW, you've only made a rather trite point and don't have a free sheath to show for your efforts (not to say that your initial intent was to win a free sheath, but hell, if I swatted at a hornets' nest and instead of stinging me they offered to give me a free leather sheath for busting on their hive, I'd oblige and take the sheath).

Here is the mathematical breakdown: Point well made = ego boost. Free sheath = fun.

Free sheath + point well made = awesomeness.
 
Like I said, Its all good. And an interesting view into a society that is very tight.

And an interesting view into how its very difficult to please a large group of diverse individuals with a very limited product. Busse is dancing on a thin line in a very small world of knives. They have succeeded in growing in spite of a very bad economy, and diversified into a collectors market in spite of starting out in a users market. Brilliant!

There's always nay sayers, always people who arent happy with the way things are run, but in the whole scheme of things is this: As long as people are complaining, you know they have a passion for the product and want to see it prosper in the best possible way in spite of the status quo. :)
 
komondor said:
I just want to know why it is such a friggin' ordeal to get a sheath made for a popular brand of knife. Why can't someone at Busse send out a pattern for each new model to all the popular sheath makers so that they can fashion their sheaths ahead of time?? They know they will be selling a boatload of them. How about having a list of ALL of the sheathmakers on the Busse website and just make it generally easier to connect a purchase with a new sheath?? You know what I mean? Just thinking in general here, no concrete ideas yet.

Come one people. Busse is not like other knife companies. They are in a unique position. They sell far more units of each individual model than any custom knife, yet slightly less than full production companies-- who supply their own sheaths!!
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(In regards to why Busse doesn't sell sheaths directly, and why makers have wait times)
There's a few things involved here. First: foreign vs. domestic production costs. If Jerry wanted to have sheaths manufactured in china he could absolutely add them to the line without much cost to profit reduction. If he wants to make them in the united states he'll be paying a higher premium, making less money on an additional item or making less money on the knife itself if he doesn't charge more for the sheaths.

Second: complaints. Lets look at common complaints about Busse from the present and past when they manufactured sheaths and supplied them with the knives:
"Busse knives are too expensive"
"This sheath isn't leather."
"I don't like leather, Why don't you provide kydex?" (for Swamp Rat)
"I don't like kydex/cordura combo sheaths, why don't you provide kydex and leather options?"
"This sheath doesn't fit the way I like it to fit, it's too loose"
"This sheath doesn't have a retention strap"
"This knife doesn't come with a sheath, it should come with a sheath for how much it costs"
"I don't want a sheath with my knife, I make my own sheaths. I don't want to spend the extra money on something I'm just going to replace."
"I don't want to pay for a sheath if it's going to be this low quality, just sell me the knife at a lower cost and I'll buy something good"
"This sheath scratched my knife, why would you give me a sheath that scratches my knife? Fix it."
"My coating is smoothed out from the kydex, I don't like it. Fix it."
"My kydex sheath broke. Fix it."
"The stitching on my leather sheath is coming out. Fix it." (for swamp rat)

What company wouldn't want to field all of those complaints and try to make everyone happy? Because that's a big part of Busse's public image, that they try to address major complaints in a meaningful way. They addressed the year+ wait times on production models by switching to a new production set up. They addressed the lack of diversity in models by diversifying the catalog. They addressed the sheath issue by getting out of the market entirely.

Third: Pushing out smaller sheath makers who are also buyers and fans of the company. buy brown, Armorall leather, kenny rowe, you name them - when Busse provides a full range of sheath options their market diminishes. Busse loses a bit of good image without gaining notable profit margins or sales revenue, and increasing their post-production customer service hassles.

Fourth: If you can name the number of Leather sheath makers on one hand, consider the amount of work each maker is going to have, consider also that most of them are a single person making each sheath one at a time, not a production team. That's on top of them providing sheaths for other manufacturers models.



It's easy to react to the lack of turn around time or product availability with the opinion that the company should immediately expand and retool to meet what you perceive as obvious market demand. It doesn't work like that, at least not across the board when you want it to. Each company faces the question of whether becoming a larger company is worth it, many choose not to. In the case of the single maker it may not be possible at all, as the cost of hiring an additional worker even at minimum wage and no benefits would eat up every last bit of additional profit from the increase in sales. There also may not be enough business to fill even a part time workers table, it's just enough to keep the turn around time at 2 months for one maker.
 
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As usual LVC said it better than I ever could and quicker than I ever can. Thank you.

hmm, I might be calling you for permission to print this on my web site, some excellent info in there.
 
leatherman said:
As usual LVC said it better than I ever could and quicker than I ever can. Thank you.

hmm, I might be calling you for permission to print this on my web site, some excellent info in there.
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You can use it for whatever you want, I don't even need credit for it :thumbup:

There's also the incredibly soul wracking anxiety that comes with having a larger company with workers who depend on you to pay them enough to feed their kids when the market fluctuates. I am not a manager, nor do I ever want to be one.
 
Yo D, If your giving sheaths away, Please send as many as you like too 1313 mockingbird lane.:p I'll PM you a list of needs;)
I for one sure do appreciate your fine service and awesome quality:thumbup:
 
Hey all,

Yup, I came across as a jerk in opening this thread, and continued somewhat. My sincerest apologies.

Dwayne, your products look fantastic and I can see why you are very busy. Offering me a free sheath was a great gesture on your part. My hat's off to you. I would have acknowledged your offer had I not been scrambling to over-zealously and angrily defend my points. The reason I did not accept the sheath is because I already committed to another maker, and I would have then had two sheaths. Maybe you can donate it to someone who has less money than I do. I have a decent job and I'm not married (...gee, that's a shocker...LOL).

In another life, we would have been drinking a beer together. (That is, to say, we each would have been drinking a beer, not sipping on the same beer. That would be weird.) And we could have burned up some ants with a magnifying glass, assuming it was a sunny day.

In any event, if our paths cross again on the forums it will undoubtedly be under amicable terms.

Peace brother.
 
komondor said:
Hey all,

Yup, I came across as a jerk in opening this thread, and continued somewhat. My sincerest apologies.

Dwayne, your products look fantastic and I can see why you are very busy. Offering me a free sheath was a great gesture on your part. My hat's off to you. I would have acknowledged your offer had I not been scrambling to over-zealously and angrily defend my points. The reason I did not accept the sheath is because I already committed to another maker, and I would have then had two sheaths. Maybe you can donate it to someone who has less money than I do. I have a decent job and I'm not married (...gee, that's a shocker...LOL).

In another life, we would have been drinking a beer together. (That is, to say, we each would have been drinking a beer, not sipping on the same beer. That would be weird.) And we could have burned up some ants with a magnifying glass, assuming it was a sunny day.

In any event, if our paths cross again on the forums it will undoubtedly be under amicable terms.

Peace brother.
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even though this is not directed at me, fwiw, i apologize as well.
 
komondor said:
Hey all,

Yup, I came across as a jerk in opening this thread, and continued somewhat. My sincerest apologies.

Dwayne, your products look fantastic and I can see why you are very busy. Offering me a free sheath was a great gesture on your part. My hat's off to you. I would have acknowledged your offer had I not been scrambling to over-zealously and angrily defend my points. The reason I did not accept the sheath is because I already committed to another maker, and I would have then had two sheaths. Maybe you can donate it to someone who has less money than I do. I have a decent job and I'm not married (...gee, that's a shocker...LOL).

In another life, we would have been drinking a beer together. (That is, to say, we each would have been drinking a beer, not sipping on the same beer. That would be weird.) And we could have burned up some ants with a magnifying glass, assuming it was a sunny day.

In any event, if our paths cross again on the forums it will undoubtedly be under amicable terms.

Peace brother.
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I hope I dont sound repetitive, but its all good. :) I thank you very humbly for coming forward with that post, it takes some integrity to do that. :thumbup:

Heck, I've shared many a beer through my lifetime, but then again I'm not what one would consider "normal" :p

That sheath will indeed be on the next give away this month, hopefully someone who needs it will get it. :D


I want to take a moment to thank the Mods for letting this one work itself out, had it been closed any sooner I dont think it would have ended so well. I've seen a lot of threads get closed quickly only to spill over to other areas and not get resolved. Sometimes you've just got to grit your teeth and hope for the best. I moderate several forums at the JD, my teeth are worn to nubs. :p
 
leatherman said:
mymindisamob, Thank you my friend. I've known you for a long time and value your friendship more than you will ever know.

MORIMOTOM, same as above, you've been a good friend for a very long time. Thank you.

Terry,
rofyahoo.gif
Now THAT lightened the mood immensely.

komondor, I appreciate the good will, but I do feel the sting of the olive branch I offered that was thrown back at my face, and the ignored offer till someone brought it up. Better late than never I guess. Passive aggressive, yea, that does sum it up very nicely.

Looks like I've got my next give away pegged! :) Sweet! Stay tuned!
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Thanks Bro! Glad this panned out as it has. We have some good folks on here.
 
But roasting ants with a magnifying glass is animal abuse!

I'm gonna write my senator- as soon as I finish eating this yummy cow. ;)
 
Demonic1 said:
But roasting ants with a magnifying glass is animal abuse!

I'm gonna write my senator- as soon as I finish eating this yummy cow. ;)
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mmmmmmmmm, roasted ants, dont knock em before you try em. They's good eatin'! :)
xBORISx said:
Thats a very nice offer Leatherman, way to go above and beyond...
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Thank you, and better yet, its going to be offered to anyone willing to enter the contest soon, as soon as I get the particulars figured out that is, its going to be a complicated one, for me that is. ;)
 
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