Leave No Trace - Fires?

tonym said:
No hard feelings Smersh, you bring up a good point:thumbup:
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Cheers -- you too. :thumbup:

Perhaps Bushman 5 has never been to LA. Or Houston. Or the Mall of America.

It's not about "saving Mother Nature." The earth will indeed be fine -- and as the late great George Carlin liked to say, when it gets tired of us, it will burn us off like the virus that we are.

It's about keeping enough of it clean and wild enough to enjoy.

Bushman's attitude is a luxury that you can maybe get away with in the BC woods. Not so much in the US.

Or China.

Or India.

Or Brazil.
 
I try to LNT, but if I can't, I don't worry about it (not talking about trash of course).

Change the environment? Birds do it, bees do it, the bears that rip honey trees apart do it, beavers, ground hogs, prairie dogs, termites, wolverines, squirrels, etc.

Course, it's not "natural" if a human does it.
 
I try to operate by a simple policy in the woods:

Don't be stupid. Ok...what is stupid?

This:
1. Leaving your garbage around for someone else to pick up.
2. Catching everything you see on fire just because you can.
3. Becoming a one-man clear-cutting crew.
4. Harrassing animals that aren't bothering you. (probably because your mother didn't hug you enough or something.)
5. Etc.

I see LNT as impossible. We ALWAYS leave at trace when we hit the woods.I just prefer to leave as little a trace as possible. Like CPL Punishment said, the BSA mindset works just fine.
 
I love having a fire when I camp, only problem is, no campfires in southern alberta parks, so in goes the stove. granted I'm just happy they still let us camp when the fire danger is anything greater than non-existent. If I camp on private land I'm still faced with the fact that most of southern alberta is covered by relatively young poplar, not the best for firewood. sometimes I wish I lived on the BC side of the range, sound like bushman has a blast! Even better is back at my parents farm where it is an anything goes kind of place. But I'll be content leaving my campsites in a state that another WSSer would think that a respectful person had been there last.
 
Bushman5 said:
humans are but a infinitesimal speck of NOTHING in this universe. Mother Nature flicks us off her back like a dog shaking off water. 9 billion people could scorch this earth and it would grow back JUST FINE and cover up everything.

I'm not going to preserve squat. My actions in the woods are so insignificant its not even measurable. The earth is mine to harvest and use.

cut it, log it, burn it, extract it, mine it, pave it and race it.
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But wait.. Didn't you also say this??


Bushman5 said:
I got back to the truck and loaded up, and headed out for the next logging road. Turned onto the rough gravel, started up the grade for several Km's into the logging area..

got the shock of my life as i turned the corner, i almost felt like puking.

In the middle of the forest and logging areas, the Yuppies have built more condos. , paved part of the road , put bike lanes in and bloody yuppified an other wise wilderness and former industrial logging area. I got angry, sick of the invasion of the goddamn city yuppie scum breeders and their SUTs/SUV's, their monster baby carriages, their water bottles and starbucks cups,and jogging suits. taking an otherwise wilderness area and paving it over and building ******** condos on it. I swore a few times and sped up the road, shaking my head at the cancerous growth that is taking over woods area and shaking my head at the vermin that move there. **** just pave the entire godamn world why dont you, build your rat cages and spew out more identical spawn from your loins. I honestly cant wait for this planet to implode in a nuclear hellstorm. Man is nothing more than a cancerous lesion, infecting the planet. Cant leave anything for the animals to enjoy can you? no because the only animals you have seen are on ******* Disney. ARG! now every time i want to head into the woods, i gotta pass by your eyesore development. Thanks. Go suck a soy latte and choke on it.

rant off.

...
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So maybe humans do have an impact..;)
 
It is nice to see people speaking up for stewardship of nature. I was beginning to think I was alone.
 
Interesting post.. I try to keep things as natural as I can when out in the woods. I do love nature and don't really kill anything without the need to. Now does that mean it's wrong to chop down some small trees?? No not really, but I think if everyone felt the need to chop down trees we might have an issue. I could be wrong, but in the areas I hike it wouldn't work out well. I'd prefer not to stumble upon someone else camp and see a fire pit, but it's not the end of the world, and hell it means it can be used again and o need to start a new fire pit. As long as people are responsible and don't go clear cutting an entire forest it's probably fine. Now what I do find deplorable is a coming upon a scumbags party site!! I detest finding garbage in the woods! If you brought it in take it out!! Unfortunately this is a problem around here, rednecks and bored kids find it cool to go in the woods and get wasted.....

Now come the survival aspect... If I were in the wild in a true survival situation I thinks all bets are off! I wouldn't trash the woods, but I also wouldn't hesitate to cut down some trees and what not if it meant my survival. Not saying I'd leave my garbage laying around, but I also don't think the preservation of the natural scenery would be more important than survival. It would seem counter productive to waste energy working around nature than to work with what you can. This all in just my opinion, and doesn't count for much.
 
Ever bust up a fire ring??

On of the things I run into is fire rings that get too tall then the ashes and other junk accumulate and absorb water. Rainwater soaks thru it and then you can't lay around the fire cause you get black soot on you.

If you have a little shovel or something you can bust up the fire ring and sort out the bits of foil and cigarette butts and then distribute the ashes around to where they absorb and then haul the garbage out.
 
Context is important...

I do use a canister stove sometimes. Burn bans and weather sometimes require this and sometimes I just like a quick convenient drink or meal without the hassle of building a fire.

Very seldom do I build a new rock enclosed fire ring for a campfire, but if I find one preexisting, I will clean it up and use it, and clean it again when I am done. I was once a Boy Scout too and I learned this from Sir Robert Baden-Powell and Ernest Thompson Seton (A Canadian by the way). They were great teachers and good guys to pal around with. :D

On the odd chance that I do have to build a new fire where no evidence exists of a previous fire, I do my prep work (removing flammables around the spot and locating stones or logs for containing it), then cover and scatter the remnants when I am through.

There are a few opportunities to really let the innner pyro come out, usually on private property. Then I love a good fire of oak pallets or even the occasional blow log. I guess blow logs are sort of a southern tradition.

"Heh! Hold my beer and watch this! :eek:

2cniotx.jpg
 
Heck, we can't even have a small campfire in our woods without getting a ticket and a $500 fine + court costs.
 
how one camps is a matter of personal taste and interest. Some like to ghost through the woods, and others enjoy a different approach.

I feel it is counter productive though, to take a position that your personal preference is somehow superior, morally or ethically, in comparison to another's.

That being said, I don't often make a fire when camping, preferring the ease and quickness of firing up the Pocket Rocket. If the weather is immoderate though, I have no problems at all making and using fire.

If that disturbs someone else's appreciation of nature, oh well......................
 
I think location also makes a difference, imho that is. If you are on your own property go for it, you wanna scorch all your land so be it I suppose. If you are in the middle of the woods, doesn't really seem to be a big issue. Some people state concern for messing up the natural beauty of the land, which sure a fire ring doesn't look as nice as what the earth can do but heck just walk past it and don't look at it. Now if however one were to start a fire ring/pit in the middle of a small plot of Polyrrhiza lindenii, that would be uncalled for...
 
PS, If I was going to chop down green wood or something in a wilderness area or something I think I'd go WAY offtrail to do it so nobody else would have to see it.
 
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