Leaving it behind.

I've become quite the minimalist since getting outdoors a lot the past couple of years.
What I sometimes see referred to as...
"necessary" as in 2: absolutely needed : required
I often refer to as:
Useless: having or being of no use: a: ineffectual b: not able to give service or aid
Crap 2: sometimes vulgar: nonsense, rubbish; also: stuff 4b
I don't really "camp", though, just stop to sleep. If I ever do CAMP again, I'm taking all kinds of useless crap, no matter what anybody says!:mad:
 
OwenM said:
I've become quite the minimalist since getting outdoors a lot the past couple of years. What I sometimes see referred to as..."necessary" as in 2: absolutely needed : required I often refer to as:Useless: having or being of no use: a: ineffectual b: not able to give service or aid Crap 2: sometimes vulgar: nonsense, rubbish; also: stuff 4bI don't really "camp", though, just stop to sleep. If I ever do CAMP again, I'm taking all kinds of useless crap, no matter what anybody says!:mad:
Click to expand...
On the similar theme: Whilst I often see the term “redundancy” used to mean backup or duplication of components the first definitions I knew were redundancy.
 
Greetings,

Nice thread...

I agree w/ you...if you're doing a day hike there's probably very little you need to 'survive'...heck, some water, multi-tool or swiss army knife (just in case) and a cell phone (if there's coverage) and you're probably good to go, especially if you're hiking with friends.

An over-nighter...not much more to 'survive' but a few extra items sure make it ALOT more comfortable. A lightweight tent for one...helpful with the elements, but particularly nice at keeping critters out of the relatively warm/dry spot you've created. Some places, above a certain elevation or other specification, you can't have an open fire...stoves only...so there's that. Some food and water make all the difference of course.

There is some level of preparedness that is good, even on a simple extended day hike (more than a couple miles). I have a smallish versapak that I carry some things in...a multi-tool, 2 space blankets, emergeny tent, small first aid kit, GPS, metal cup, camera, water bottle, couple other little odds and ends. I can stuff a couple granola bars in there. It probably weighs about 5lbs. I like it cuz it has a shoulder strap, allowing my back to breathe. I take with me on about anything where I plan to be gone more than an hour or a mile or so from the vehicle. So if I get 8 miles up the trail, the weather turns, and I twist my ankle, I'll be able to get by for a little bit until my buddies get to me or I something along those lines. Or if I don't monitor my daylight and it gets dark and its safer for me to wait until morning...same thing.

It's only called 'paranoia' until it saves your bacon, then you'll be characterised as being "...a knowledgeable and well prepared individual." Something about having and not needing vs. needing and not having.

If I were PLANNING an overnight or multi-day trip, yes, I'd take my considerably larger pack and more gear, food, etc.

Since this is a knife forum...I do love the folks that have these monster choppers...yes they can be great fun, and perhaps if you're really 'out there' and have a genuine need for it, great. Or if you just WANT it, great. But most of the time its probably unnecessary. I do however fall into the believers that of the two, the bigger knife is the better choice over the dainty little 2 inch bladed folder. Big can do what little can't, maybe not super well, but it can usually be pressed into service. Often not true of the reverse (little knife doing big jobs). But in reality, most knives that I'm going to take along fall into the 5-7 inch range, maybe a little more depending on if I just want to take something bigger. I suppose there's just some folks that either want that extra level of gear for piece of mind or to fulfill their semi-fantasy that they're part of some spec op team infiltrating Badassisstan or something. Its funny tho, when you ask folks that ACTUALLY spend time out on the trails or in the hunting fields, you'd don't see to many 10+ choppers. The other thing I find funny is when you see someone batoning, in a camp ground or in front of their vehicles. Really? I mean if you're doing it for fun/practice/experience, etc. ok, but why use a knife when there's probably the better tool (ie an axe) in one of the vehicles or close by? Talk about a waste of time an calories sometimes.

Ultimately it depends on many factors: environment, gear, plans, intended activities, etc. But I do note a distinct difference in a recreational outing and a survival situation. Recreation--I'm probably going to pack more gear just for comforts sake... Survival means something gone wrong and 'comfort' becomes a relative term...you're just trying to get to civilization/safety. Different scenarios.

In any event, my $.02 worth. You're mileage may vary.

BOSS
 
BOSS1 said:
Its funny tho, when you ask folks that ACTUALLY spend time out on the trails or in the hunting fields, you'd don't see to many 10+ choppers.
Click to expand...

I've talked to a lot of people who don't even carry a fixed blade. I sat in on a class at rei about the different trails around the area and the best times to go and the instructor only carried a SAK classic. At the beginning of the class he held up a map of all the trails in oregon and told everyone that this is where he's been. All the trails were highlighted. He also hikes these trails in the middle of winter so it makes you wonder how much the gear supplants the skill. Now I'm not saying you shouldn't carry a good knife(I usually carry 2) but it does throw into question it's necessity IMO.
 
I used to carry just a sak classic backpacking, the scissors were great for cutting food/beverage/purification packaging and the little tweezers handy for the occasional sliver/thorn/sticker, the knife was sharp and would clean a trout w/o much trouble- also wasn't too difficult to make a decent fuzz stick w/ one either

my current choice for backpacking, the Izula, is roughly an ounce heavier, but a heck of a lot more knife- I found the sak tweezers handy enough I just stick a pair in my fak :)
 
There's a lot of folks who have done a lot of backpacking that does not even bother to carry a fixed blade knife. In his book, "Press On" Chuck Yeager makes a point of the knife he carried was his edc pocket knife that was a ask executive. He and his friend would backpack into the Sierra Nevada mountains on two week trout fishing trips. Famous backpacking pioneer and author Colin Fletcher wrote in his book, The Complete Walker, the bible of modern backpackers, that he found a ask classic enough knife for the trip. This from a man who spent 6 years in the British Royal Marines during WW2, and was a prospector in western Canada, and packed the length of the Grand Canyon.

I don't really agree with going that light. I like to have a knife I can lean on if push comes to shove. A nice 4 inch bladed puuko or other sheath knife is nice. But I just can't see myself packing tools that I'd need to set up lumbering operations. Someplace in the middle is a happy medium for most of us. But extremes in either end is not good.

With a saw for emergency, I've rarely needed much more knife than a sturdy pocket knife most times I've been out hiking or camping. If I'm actually backpacking, the very sport of it by nature of the thing excludes the need for making shelter. In fact, even just a day hike, it's easier to for me to carry a light weight waterproof tarp that will make a way better shelter than I can make by chopping up local forest. A sil tarp and some twine weigh very little.

The trick of it is, to find that happy medium between the ask classic and the 10 inch chopper. And the terrain and tine of year will have a lot to do with it.

Carl.
 
I actually came full circle in my gear load. When I was younger, I'd toss a water bottle, sandwich and snacks, cheapo knockoff folder, and mini-maglite in my beat up jansport school bag for hikes. I had it easy though, hiking in an island tropical environment. It's warm, even at night. Really, the only danger is physical trauma, hyperthermia and/or dehydration because of the high humidity, and flash flooding. And it's hard to get lost on an island, just keep heading towards the ocean.

Then I moved to the west coast (colder weather) and started hiking up here and getting into "survival" stuff. My daypack weight and spending went up; at one point I was hiking around with 30lbs for longer dayhikes. Now I'm moving back the other direction, going towards lighter kit with the hope of going more minimal. My daypack is now 14lbs and that includes a few items which could be dropped for dayhiking (e.g. maybe folding saw, keep headlamp and drop flashlight, drop heavy duty garbage bags, cut down on psk and fak stuff). I'm pretty sure I can get down to around 10 lbs, and I think that'll be good for me. Well under 10 would be great, of course, but we'll see. As long as the insurance weight I'm carrying doesn't negate my enjoyment of being outside, keep me from getting where I want to go, or look like it'll take a significant toll when I get older, I call it good. If something ever happened to me while out (most likely injury or lost when it's getting cold and dark), I don't want to waste time, energy, and take more risks by having to improvise everything. I'd rather just put on my insulating clothing, put up a quick tarp shelter against rain if needed, and hunker down in a light amk bivy on some debris insulation. Then I wait for rescue if injured, or daylight and a chance to signal or regain my bearings or if lost.

The funny thing is I probably take less crap (relatively) with me backpacking (25lbs base weight with food for weekender). I guess it's because I actually have proper shelter and insulation so I take less "survival" stuff.

ETA:

I agree with Carl: happy medium
 
^ have to agree w/ both posters above, I've got my daypack dialed into roughly 10#, when I'm working that jumps up a fair bit as I have to carry some heavier items that I don't normally carry (sidearm/magazine/binoculars/etc)- that 10#'s includes a workable shelter setup, redundant fire making, rain gear, insulating layer, hat, gloves, fak, map/compass, water/purification, whistle/signal mirror, headlamp and even a small pot/stove

and while a night out in the mountains wouldn't be overly enjoyable, I'm confident I'd be fine

loadout.jpg
 
It really depends on where you are and the time of year. We live in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. We are out in all seasons hiking, canoeing, snowshoeing, and skiing in high,cold country that can swallow you up. It also has large predators. We carry bear spray everywhere around here (except mid-winter) and I usually carry a handgun. I spend a lot of time fishing in backcountry areas away from trails where no one will find you quickly if you are injured or stranded. I carry a larger knife for day hikes (no tent in pack) than I do on a backpacking trip that sticks to regularly travelled trails. I also carry a large knife or axe and a folding saw in the winter for wood processing.

We also tend to carry the necessary gear, like extra clothing, first aid kit, and firestarting supplies, in case something goes wrong, but often are with people who are less prepared.
 
This is an interesting thread, and actually I was going to start another one on a related topic.
First, it's clear that we hike in very different areas, weather conditions, for longer or shorter periods of time, and surely with different goals.
It is also undeniable that, as long as we don't harm others, we should do what we like, be it carrying a 100 lbs pack for a dayhike, or camp for a week with an axe and a toothpick. :D
So, comparing what we carry, or our "philosophy", is a hard thing to do, but still I enjoy talking and confronting other people's thoughts.
I do understand that some people like to carry much more than me. It might be for precaution, for feeling secure or prepared to anything, it might be cause they enjoy trying their gear, having it, it might be cause they actually need things that I don't need. If it's fine for them, I have no problem with that.
I usually do day hikes or spend one or two nights out, and I like to go as light as I can. Personally, I never felt the need of something that I wasn't carrying, and that's how my load got lighter in time. It worked for me.
The only thing that sometimes makes me wonder is when some people tend to overuse the word "need". This is quite common. I've heard people trying to convince me that they absolutely need, let's say, 4 knives when they go out in the morning (on workdays). I rather have them say that they just like to carry them. There's nothing bad in saying so. I know people who own 100 watches, or women who own 100 pairs of shoes, and admit they just like them, and eventually want more. :rolleyes:
Need (under "normal" circumstances) is quite another thing, at least for me. :)

:cool:
 
There's really no right or wrong. I've been on hikes where things have gone south, and being above timberline, your choices are limited. The next hike, we had beautiful weather, and none of it was necessary. I've never minded the weight, considering the alternative.

I will also say that some people have been incredibly lucky, never having even needed a knife. All it takes is one bad experience - there, but for the grace of God, and all that. While knowledge is certainly a thing to strive for, I do not agree with the "the more you know, the less you need" mentality. That has it's limits as well. You need a certain minimum. You drop any world class survivalist off in Antartica at -100 deg F buck naked, they will die just as quickly as you and I. So that attitude has it's limits as well.
 
HikingMano said:
The funny thing is I probably take less crap (relatively) with me backpacking (25lbs base weight with food for weekender). I guess it's because I actually have proper shelter and insulation so I take less "survival" stuff.
Click to expand...
That we see all the time when people post their load outs. Instead of taking once the "real stuff", they take several redundant survival tools that won't work as good and in the end being bulkier/heavier than the real thing.
Oddly enough, hiking for long periods of time is when you should probably have the least "survival" stuff, because your needs should be covered by the actual tools of the trade.
 
Yeah, for me, the true "real stuff" would be my 20F down bag and solo tarptent. But with the pack I use to carry those, I'd be looking at 10lbs already with just the big 3. So for absolute weight, my hiking daypack is lighter than my overnighter or more pack.

But, I did learn that instead of taking all kinds of redundant fire supplies and tools with which to build a log cabin (not that I ever really did much of that, at most, a folding saw or hatchet) on a day-hike... simply take proper protective clothing that will insulate and weatherproof me. That way I'm not dependent on fire for thermoregulation. And I'd rather string up a quick tarp shelter against rain/wind/sun than construct something out of natural materials. So I carry a silnylon poncho-tarp, AMK thermolite bivy, insulating jacket, beanie, gloves, buff, and extra dry socks. I also usually carry a BCUSA 5x7 groundcloth tarp that is a bit of an extra, but I use it all the time just to sit on. I could also use it overhead if I want to keep my poncho on while setting up my shelter. Combined with natural debris insulation to protect from the ground, I may not be comfortable, but I should be fine. Everything else follows (having left a trip plan with someone, FAK, signaling--> whistle-light-mirror, water treatment, basic firemaking stuff, flashlight/headlamp, etc.)

ETA: Not saying gear trumps skill, just saying I'd rather have the right tools than depend on Murphy to not negate whatever I can improvise with skills and knowledge :thumbup:.
 
I love the videos on youtube. "hello youtube this is my EDC. 3 rifles,4 pistols,17 knives, 4 flashlights, a 37LB survival kit, more medical gear than an EMT, 10000' of 550 cord, and a mre. All that and not a shred of commonsense. Being in the military I understand the whole two is onw and one is non concept. But if 19-75 year old hikers can do the AT over the course of six months with 20LB packs I fail to see why people need 85lbs of gear to hike 2 days in what is essentialy there back yard.

And god forbid the backpackers forget there 380 or 9mm for all those pesky grizzly bears. Half the people I have met either dont know how or when to use a weapon. I would venture to say bear bells, talking loudly, and sprey have saved more people from bears then a glock tucked in the bottom of your pack. Adn if I keep getting these damn zombie apoc videos everytime I look up outdoor gear on youtube I am going to loose it.


Ok I ranted Im done. Thank BF
 
Even for a dayhike I still take a small/medium backpack, but it's not loaded heavily at all and the main reason it is there is because it's a camelbak and it has my water in it.

I do go redundant on fire making and knives, but weight is considered. If I'm taking a machete, I don't bother with my folding saw. But I do keep a redundant knife of some type, usually a cheap/light mora in my pack.

With 2-3 liters of water I usually don't go above 20lbs, probably never over 25lbs.

I do however have enough gear to carry 100lbs if I wanted to, though! And that is a constant struggle... gotta keep myself from packing stuff I don't need just because it's shiny.
 
I spend most weekends during the summer doing 30+ mile hikes through the canyons in the southern Utah dessert I can usually manage to never see another person. I carry a sleeping bag, pad, bivy, a titanium kettle, small stove, compas, map, small first aid kit, fire kit, water filter, a 10 leader water bladder, extra socks, para cord, climbing rope, headlamp, snacks and food, and a 6 inch belt knife. The water is always the heaviest my summer sleeping bag is rolled up with the bivy and is smaller than a standard nalgene bottle sometimes I add a harness to the pack but that depends on the canyon some require 100+ foot repels
 
adam0321 said:
And god forbid the backpackers forget there 380 or 9mm for all those pesky grizzly bears. Half the people I have met either dont know how or when to use a weapon. I would venture to say bear bells, talking loudly, and sprey have saved more people from bears then a glock tucked in the bottom of your pack.
Click to expand...

I get to patrol area that has a pretty healthy grizzly population (Beartooth Wliderness- adjacent to Yellowstone) and it amazes me the number of folks carrying sidearms and NOT carry spray. I was patrolling there last summer and happened on three fellas from Utah (all packing hog legs), one was an elderly gentlemen about 75-80 years old. He noticed that in addition to my duty sidearm, I had bear spray at the ready. He asked me which one I would reach for in a grizzly encounter, knowing that I would say my .40, when I told him my bear spray- he was rather shocked. I explained how effective a deterrent it was and how ineffective a deterrent a sidearm is with a grizzly. Also how much lighter spray was (~ 15 oz vs 3+ lbs for a loaded sidearm) He solemnly looked at the two younger fellas with him and said "next time it's spray boys" :D
 
Good thread!
For a day activity I don't take much. For an overnight activity I always sort out my things twice. 1st time I put all the things I need on my bed. 2nd time I look at the pile and reduce it to a minimum.
 
I agree with the spray. I think most people who carry guns know to little about how to use them ans more often then not they are far to eager to use them. We hike in north GA a month or so ago. There the trails go right past some of the camp sites. My friend became ill during the night and we decided to hike back at night to the cars. Both being Recon Marines moving in the woods at night is something we are both very comfortable with. As we walk by one site its about 1130pm we pass a tent within about 50yds. We were making noise on purpose so as not to spook anything. This asshole jumps out of his tent with his glock pointed at us and a surefire in the other hand He says I shit you not "man I am sorry but when I hear shit in the woods at night I usually just blast first" . Now tell me this is a responsible firearm owner? It was all I could.do to keep from taking the gun from him and beating half to death with it. I told him " you do relize things live here right? Had you shot my dog I doubt anyone would.find you for a very long time. If you are that scared of the woods at night to where you feel you need to shoot every little.sound then stay home". One of my favorite parts of hiking is.seeing the wild life. There is nothing in the woods that as as dangerious as what is probably in the bars where people are just fine leaving there weapons at home and completely destroying their sense of.awareness
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top