Let down by 20CV

I’ve had one Buck in 20cv that did at first. After 5-6 sharpens I got to fresh metal and now there’s no more micro chips. I’ve had a couple in s30v that did as well but sharpened out after awhile and quite chipping. I think it depends on the person who ground the edge with a belt sander on how fast and the amount of pressure used to form the edge. The very apex can over hest easily if not done properly. That’s why I like hand sharpening.
 
I am in the other camp, don’t need a company name, country of origin perhaps, different degree of angle and more time being used.Flames are inherent with names
 
If said it before: my Spyderco M390 PM2 and PM3 behave like this when used for real work. I obviously like them but there is a trade-off with the higher HRC.

Luckily there are alternatives: Spyderco Cruwear and M4, for instance, are much more resilient. With M390/20CV, I prefer other vendors, including Hinderer :)
 
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I agree we don't need to know who made it. Work it a little longer and see if the edge improves after more use and sharpening. Ive not used 20cv so don't know what to expect.
 
shane45-1911 said:
That's what my money is on with regards to the OP's knife in question....:)
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I love both my Hinderer’s I’m just not happy with their 20CV. The edge chips, rolls, and doesn’t last long at all. I haven’t used my 3V Wharnie enough to have any thoughts on that.

The first two photos are of when the tip broke, I sent it in and they sharpened it back out. The last few pics are post sharpening and regular carry and use, not hard use at all and you can see the edge has rolled in many sections of the belly

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20CV/M390 isn't tough, and lackluster heat treatments of it seem like the rule rather than the exception nowadays with all the inexpensive knives using those steels. I am wary of M390 from most makers now for this reason.

It is also possible the edge is burned from the factory and needs to be sharpened a handful of times.
 
I don't think it's an issue of burnt edges. M390/20Cv are not tough steels by any measurement. Top that off with thin edges with the angles you have along with the key here. Plastic banding is hell on edges. If you have any side loads on that edge while cutting at all you have a perfect storm for chipping. Try it at a lot thicker/higher angle if you intend to cut that plastic edge breaking stuff again and do it very carefully. Look at the complaints like yours that stuff has caused over the last 10 years.

Every steel/heat treat/edge knife blade has a limit for every job. That job exceeded the limit for a high carbide steel at high hardness at those geometry s. Either thicken it up or do what many of us do and use a throw away blade on those wretched things.

:)

Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
I don't think it's an issue of burnt edges. M390/20Cv are not tough steels by any measurement. Top that off with thin edges with the angles you have along with the key here. Plastic banding is hell on edges. If you have any side loads on that edge while cutting at all you have a perfect storm for chipping. Try it at a lot thicker/higher angle if you intend to cut that plastic edge breaking stuff again and do it very carefully. Look at the complaints like yours that stuff has caused over the last 10 years.

Every steel/heat treat/edge knife blade has a limit for every job. That job exceeded the limit for a high carbide steel at high hardness at those geometry s. Either thicken it up or do what many of us do and use a throw away blade on those wretched things.

:)

Joe
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I chipped out some zdp-189 on plastic bands. I was not happy.
 
scubadoober said:
I will say the initial sharpening had to be touched up as soon as I got it for a very pronounced burr on the belly of the blade.
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It’s possible you didn’t really removed the burr. Just possible.
‘I don’t think your Work Sharp sharpener will burn the edge, but this is a good sharpener and it’s easy to produce hard to remove burr/wire edge…
 
I also have enough 20CV knives to like and trust it.
But I have heard reports of some 20CV Hogues being "chippy"...
 
I got a reply back from the manufacturer very quickly today. The CS rep said it was the first time they had encountered this issue, but they were going to reach out to someone else and have a resolution by Tuesday. I will try to get a picture. It is hard to get it with my phone. I will try to get a macro shot with my camera.
 
Glad that they are trying to get some answers for you.
 
I wmhad a bad experience with manix 20cv for awhile. After I sharpened it more than a few times it really cuts nice.

There maybe Something to that burnt edge.
Though I had a issue with chipping not rolls.
 
I've been reluctant to get 20cv or m390 or similar steels due to this general issue...

I know a good ht & good geometry will avoid these problems, but still why bother? We have choices, so for me it's cpm-m4 or 14c28n or 3v or magnacut tough edges

I never fear using these on plastic bands / straps
the cheaper 14c28n might dull fairly quickly on them... but strop back to shape in no time, due to not chipping or rolling
 
Lesknife said:
I’ve had one Buck in 20cv that did at first. After 5-6 sharpens I got to fresh metal and now there’s no more micro chips. I’ve had a couple in s30v that did as well but sharpened out after awhile and quite chipping. I think it depends on the person who ground the edge with a belt sander on how fast and the amount of pressure used to form the edge. The very apex can over hest easily if not done properly. That’s why I like hand sharpening.
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Others have gotten on this already and it's a real issue. If you don't follow Outpost 76 on YouTube, check him out. He has shown it empirically with lots of different steels from lots of different companies from different countries. The depth of the fatigue can vary too. Sometimes, edge retention values stabilize after just a few fresh edges. Occasionally, they can continue to improve past where he is willing to go.

There can be other issues besides the fatigue from the factory grinder. Outpost 76 is planning a video overview on this family of steels and I'm looking forward to it. Apparently, a good production heat treatment is hard to find for these steels. Much like Chinese D2 in budget knives, it seems that production M390 and 20CV can be decent for various EDC needs but will often fall short of expectation based on things like Larrin's ratings.
 
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