What he said!
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Let's All Be Honest With Ourselves
- Thread starter Lenny
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What he said!
stabman
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Wrong, just plain wrong.
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yeah sometimes a slipjoint just wont do thats why i have a buck 110, and when that wont do i have some fixed blades, only got one liner lock dont carry it much, used to but realized my case medium stockman does everything i need it to, if not i'll grab and carry the buck
just my 2 cents
Gene
just my 2 cents
Gene
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Or...You can have a couple real durabel one handers for different tasks and you don't have ot let go f that damn wire that was hel to get a hold of and will spring back while you're closing one blade and opening another...
I do tons of real work and often need to be able to open my knife one handed and close it the same way. ... and yes probably 3 out of 5 times a slip joint woudl and does work, but the other two times it sure is nice to have the extra convenience.
And sometimes a fixed blade is inconvenient... I carry and use slip joints, one handed openers and *gasp* fixed blades as convenient and suitable... The real joy of folders is that they are on you always, and you have them when you need them. I have no specific bias and I think all of them are useful intheir palce. to imply any of them are inferior is BS and "instigating".
As another poster said, just because the old tool did the job, doesn't mean the new one is less useful... Millions of screws have been driven with a plain standard screw driver, that doesn't make my cordless power driver less useful or effective. I'm sure glad I didn't have to screw the steel roofing on my house with a hand driver.That said there are times when I woudl rather use the regular screw driver, such as mkaing sure I'm not cross threading into plastic or stripping a fine screw in a computer.
You are eintitled to your opinion but please don't suggest that what you did 40 years ago in the army has any bearing on the only "real way" to "real work"...
His (jacknife) opinion and experience is just as valid or invalid as yours and quoting his with your snarky observations added is a little much
Gene
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I tend to use both at work a decent amount. I usually carry a OHO folder (often a Spyderco Slipit, due to UK laws), sometimes a fixed blade, and often a traditional. More than a few times, I have carried all three. The traditional can do 90% of what I need a knife for at work, but the OHO can do 98%, and the fixed 100%. Traditionals definitely have a relaxed style, that I enjoy. Their aesthetics are the main reason I carry them (that, and they have the best cutting ability vs. size ratio for knives). I like leather bags/briefcases over nylon, carved briar pipes vs. cigarettes, and analog mechanical watches to digital because of aesthetics, not actual superior performance. For me it is the same with traditionals. Legality aside, I carry a traditional if I am expecting very light, unhurried knife use, for my own enjoyment. When time, safety, or larger blades are needed, I go with a OHO or fixed.
They all have their roles, and each advantage of one comes with a disadvantage vs the others. Traditionals have thin light blades, often carbon steel, get ridiculously sharp, and usually have multiple different blades in a small package. They are normally non locking, and made from materials that are vulnerable to wear/damage. They are by far the slowest to retrieve, open and close, and for the average joe, they do seem to be party to self inflicted injuries the most. OHO open and close quickly (depending on type/presence of lock), tend to be heavier duty than traditionals, and often have durable modern materials, as well as convenient pocket clips. Their strength to weight ratio gets pretty out of whack if you try to go "hard use", and no lock is as strong as a good fixed blade. Fixed blades have the best strength to size/weight ratio, often come in good carbon steels, and can be abused much more than the other two. They are also usually the bulkiest and heaviest, and often have legaility issues, especially in the larger sizes where their advantages are most apparent.
They all have their roles, and each advantage of one comes with a disadvantage vs the others. Traditionals have thin light blades, often carbon steel, get ridiculously sharp, and usually have multiple different blades in a small package. They are normally non locking, and made from materials that are vulnerable to wear/damage. They are by far the slowest to retrieve, open and close, and for the average joe, they do seem to be party to self inflicted injuries the most. OHO open and close quickly (depending on type/presence of lock), tend to be heavier duty than traditionals, and often have durable modern materials, as well as convenient pocket clips. Their strength to weight ratio gets pretty out of whack if you try to go "hard use", and no lock is as strong as a good fixed blade. Fixed blades have the best strength to size/weight ratio, often come in good carbon steels, and can be abused much more than the other two. They are also usually the bulkiest and heaviest, and often have legaility issues, especially in the larger sizes where their advantages are most apparent.
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bold added by me
this is where i think folks are getting hung up. In what way exactly are modern folders heavier duty? I can only think of 1 thing, they are thicker are therefore are better at prying tasks (which isnt really a knife task to begin with). Folks might say they are safer, but folks got along just fine with slipjoints for centuries, and if your careful your not all that likely to slam a blade shut on yourself. On the other hand, one hand locking folders get used in twisting/prying tasks and when the locks fail, they seem to fail catastrophically (not saying it happens all the time or anything, but when it happens folks either get real lucky or hurt real bad)
just my 2 cents
stabman
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Why do people think that one hand opening equates to idiots prying stuff?
For me, one hand opening means one thing, and one thing only: I can open it with one hand.
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Most OHO have some sort of mechanic to reduce the chance for the blade to close on your hand (either a lock, friction folder tang, choil etc). For the average knife use (not knife nut), a slip joint carries more risk of accidental closure than most OHO knives. I know that all but one of the times I have ever cut myself was with a slip joint, and the one time I cut myself with a OHO was when I stabbed myself in the thumb trying to stab something in my hand, which was extra stupid. Also, I never said that a OHO was foolproof, merely that it was safer than a traditional, which has no mechanic at all other than minor spring resistance to prevent accidental closure. Not to mention, the spring itself provides additional force to any closure, that can only be matched by stabbing a OHO into a hard object with a lot of force.
To reiterate against misinterpretations, I am not saying OHO are infinitely safe, or that traditionals are inherrantly dangerous. I am saying that OHO are safer than traditionals by design, even if that degree of safety is sometimes rather marginal. If this additional safety makes some people do dangerous things with their knives, that is not the fault of the knife design, but of the user.
stabman
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That depends on which one hand opening knife is being compared to which slip-joint.
There's so much variation within each category that to make wide-spread assertions would be rather pointless.
I do like locks for those occasions when the blade gets stuck in thick cardboard though. I had an occasion of that when moving (cutting lots of cardboard to reinforce boxes for my many, many hundreds of pounds of books). The blade got stuck, and force was inadvertently put on the spine of the blade.
It was a Spyderco Urban, which is a one-hand opening slip-joint. The choil on that model served the same safety function a lock would though, so no injury was to be had.
Sure, the rest of the time all the cutting was done perfectly...but are YOU perfect at all times, even when working for hours, with sleep deprivation, muscle relaxers for low-back injuries, and such?
Sometimes a safety device is a good thing. That's where locks--or choils--are a good thing.
When I get promoted to the position of God, I will no longer require safety devices...but I probably won't need a knife then, either.
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The military issues multitools now. There are multitools with one hand opening blades, locks, and pocket clips. Victorinox and Wegner make one hand locking knives. They have multiple tools on them, as do the Leatherman versions of these one hand locking knives. Benchmade, Spyderco, Buck, Kershaw all have offered one hand opening knives with more than one blade or with extra tools and cutting implements. The steels used in modern one hand, friction, slipjoint, and fixed blades don't get dulled as quickly as the old patina coated low hardness carbon steel blades. With ten, twenty, or fifty times the wear resistance (no exaggeration) the worry about which blade to unfold from the handle to saw your way through some rope or cardboard is lessened greatly.
Knives peaked about the same time every other tool and invention of mankind did. Which means they still haven't, and are still improving. But it is nice that we can all huddle around our computers and discuss on the internet how much better off we were with the level of technology from a century ago. Maybe we should all email each other to exchange cell phone numbers, agree on a location found on google maps, plug the address into our GPS units, drive our fuel injected gas-sipping cars there, and rough it while practicing bushcraft skills we saw on youtube. Someone bring a camera so we can upload it after.
Knives peaked about the same time every other tool and invention of mankind did. Which means they still haven't, and are still improving. But it is nice that we can all huddle around our computers and discuss on the internet how much better off we were with the level of technology from a century ago. Maybe we should all email each other to exchange cell phone numbers, agree on a location found on google maps, plug the address into our GPS units, drive our fuel injected gas-sipping cars there, and rough it while practicing bushcraft skills we saw on youtube. Someone bring a camera so we can upload it after.
I would ask, "What is the "real work" being done?". I have been getting in to slipjoints for a while but I still use a OHO while working in the warehouse/shipping. Lots of times you need to hold a box and get your knife out and cut. I guess any time you would use a box-cutter a lot a OHO would be better.
When I'm doing machinist work a knife with two blades so one can be a dedicated scraper is much better. I usually have both hands to open the knife and can do it just as quickly it seems.
I like the screw construction on modern knives. It does make them stronger. I've loosened the joint on a slipjoint using the screwdriver hard. Screw construction also makes for easier adjustment and disassembly is possible for an amateur like me. Still, the blades on a slipjoint often have a geometry to be little razors.
One thing that really is big, big, big, and has been only mentioned once. No matter what your "real work" is, slipjoints are less threatening.
"Threatening" is not the knife's fault. It is usually not the user's fault. It is generally the perceivers fault. It is still, however, a fact of life.
When I'm doing machinist work a knife with two blades so one can be a dedicated scraper is much better. I usually have both hands to open the knife and can do it just as quickly it seems.
I like the screw construction on modern knives. It does make them stronger. I've loosened the joint on a slipjoint using the screwdriver hard. Screw construction also makes for easier adjustment and disassembly is possible for an amateur like me. Still, the blades on a slipjoint often have a geometry to be little razors.
One thing that really is big, big, big, and has been only mentioned once. No matter what your "real work" is, slipjoints are less threatening.
"Threatening" is not the knife's fault. It is usually not the user's fault. It is generally the perceivers fault. It is still, however, a fact of life.
Grateful
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I like both so I have no dog in this fight but the quote above from hardheart made me laugh out loud. And there is alot of truth to it.
Jim
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To be honest, I am no longer sure what you are asking for, since I felt it was explained in my post. What is it that is actually confusing you?