Let's see your kitchen knives

[Gator97]

OK, for the last time, ‘Forging’ allows for ‘Bolsters’

Not necessarily. If you are in the mood, CNC can do that too. And the knife can be stamped in such shape, no probs.

which allows for ‘Balance’ which allows for comfort and control.

According to your statement, forging/bolster combo is the only way to balance the knife, which is clearly not the case. For one, balance is very personal and subjective. Second, good stamped knives have very good balance, contrary to your statement.
And,let's not forget that full bolsters, that extend all the way to the edge make sharpening those knives really difficult.

Yes, there is a proper way to hold a chefs knife,

Again, there are variations to that grip. E.g. index finger on the blade spine is a big no in western culinary schools, yet Japanese were and are using it a lot. They teach that, it's in the books, etc.

and having ‘Bolsters’ allows for this. (Read the list above for information about ‘Bolsters’, and how they are only found on ‘Forged’ knives&#8230

Having bolsters allows for extra weight on the knife. That's pretty much it. Other than that, what is the advantage of having a bolster? You can balance knife in many other ways. The only case, when I see the bolster necessary is the narrow knives where it plays fingerguard role. On wider knives, blade height does the job.
Aside from the narrow blades, name one thing the bolster gives that can't be done without it.

I have a lot Japanese forged blades, none of them have, or need a bolster. Why waste a metal? Why have a heavier knife?

Forged blades are ALWAYS found on higher end knives.

Duh? Who's gonna spend time and money on forging, to make a crappy knife? Although, forging alone won't guarantee quality. You also need to mention that bolsters are not always found on the higher end knives, forged or not.

Every manufacturer ahd a cheaper line of stamped knives and a more expensive line of forged knives. So in that respect, YES they are higher quality.

Absolutely not necessarily Let's take Global G-61, 8" stamped gyuto(chef's knife), costs around 100$. Chromova 18 stainless steel, 56-58HRC.
And now Wusthof, forged Classic Ikon 8" chef's knife. X50CrMoV15 steel, 54-56HRC. Price, 140$.
Global steel has higher content of C(~1% vs. 0.5%) and Cr, it's harder, by couple points, but still makes a noticeable difference.
So, tell me why should one pick heavier, softer and thicker edged forged Wusthof over stamped Global anyway? Just because it's forged and has a bolster? 0.5% C isn't really high carbon by definition. But, that forged and bolster thing does the trick. Ikon sells for higher price, despite being inferior to the Global stamped knife in all aspects of knife cutting performance.
For the record, I'm no fan of Global knives.

Hand any decent cook two knives, one stamped and one forged and I guarantee you he or she will choose the forged one.

Come on. And since when the cooks are the last authority on the knives? I agree, that's what will happen, but it has nothing to do with knife performance, just they've been told million times that forged is better. So are the most of the average knife buyers.
Most cooks, unless they hang out on this forum or others like this one wouldn't know much about the knives besides the marketing mantra about fully-forged-bolstered-full-tang-high-carbon blah blah..

Bobby Flay is better than a Decent cook, still, he opened the lid with Shun chef's knife (no bolster though). So, what now, we all do the same?
Rachael Ray is using POS Furi knives, should we all go, get that?

Lots of chef's don't even have a choice, they use whatever is provided by workplace.

Chef's get their knowledge from the culinary schools, and as far as I can tell they(culinary school teachers) make sure to pass the message about fully forged and bolstered stuff.

 

[SShepherd]

Gator97..you're spot on:thumbup:

 

[bearcut]

Not necessarily. If you are in the mood, CNC can do that too. And the knife can be stamped in such shape, no probs.

Show me a production CNC'd kitchen knife for under $300. Show me a stamped/shaped one. Remember, we are talking PRODUCTION blades.

According to your statement, forging/bolster combo is the only way to balance the knife, which is clearly not the case.

I said 'allows for balance'. I did not say that it is the only way. You can add bolsters, not very hygenic, or add weight to the handle. (Global)

Second, good stamped knives have very good balance, contrary to your statement.

The key word here is "good". I was talking about Old Hickory, remember?

And,let's not forget that full bolsters, that extend all the way to the edge make sharpening those knives really difficult.

Never had a problem sharpening bolstered knives. Who cares about the last 2mm?

I have a lot Japanese forged blades, none of them have, or need a bolster. Why waste a metal? Why have a heavier knife?

Forged? Forged? Why waste a metal? Why have a heavier knife?
Heavier? Since when does a guy who owns 15+ Busse's worry about weight in a knife?

So, tell me why should one pick heavier, softer and thicker edged forged Wusthof over stamped Global anyway?

I choose a European design over Global for several reasons.
1) a lack of design variety in Japanese blades, i.e. no specific boning, cheese, curved paring etc.
2) I don't like the geometry of Japanese knives.
3) So, I may have to sharpen my knives 2 more times a year than I would with a harder steel. So what?
4) My Wusthof Salmon slicer easily rivals or beats any 'Sashmi' knife. Design, remember?

Come on. And since when the cooks are the last authority on the knives?

What? Might wanna proof read your text there.
I guess a cook would be a better authority on 'the knives', than say, a hunter, who never cooks, but knows what makes a good 'hunting' knife.

Lots of chef's don't even have a choice, they use whatever is provided by workplace.

Proving what? That issue knives suck? Newsflash: we know that.
This is precisly why 'Chefs', bring their own knives to work.

Nice set of knives you have there. I do appreciate you posting a picture.
You aren't one of the people who talk about 'good' kitchen knives without actually owning any. No hypocrisy there.

 

[Absintheur]

Well said Gator97

 

[Mongo1958]

It is obvious that many people on this forum don’t know the first thing about good kitchen knives.

Oh,Oh! Mr. Carter.... Oh, Oh!!! Thats me But I'm leaning about them

 

[jerryd6818]

I'll say one thing for this forum, the pissing contests are more civilized than on the Marine Corps forums.

Although I enjoy quality anything and especially knives, for the cooking I do (and by the way, I'm a fair decent country cook) I don't need a $700 Sashimi knife. I'm no gourmet cook so why would I pay $300 for a knife I would use now and then to chop an onion or slice up some celery. Wouldn't mind having one but sure don't need one.

Enough of that. Back to the title of the forum. I'm single and live alone so I always open my own cans but when company comes, I cook from scratch. When I do cook, these are the knives I use most often in my kitchen.

My homemade knife block

Wusthof. Bottom one was a Christmas gift and the top one was given to me by my knife guy (Tom's Cutlery). He got it in a box he bought from Homeland Security. It was taken off some airline passenger.

Shun. Okay, I splurged and their great.

Wasari. Doesn't get used a lot.

Top to bottom:
Wenger. It's handy now and then and it's sharp.
??? Blade is stamped USA. It's a good sharp knife.
Mundial. Used to buy these from SMKW for $3.00 each when they were closing them out. Great slicer and very sharp.

Joyce Chen. I use it to cut up winter squash.

The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

 

[Gator97]

Show me a production CNC'd kitchen knife for under $300. Show me a stamped/shaped one.

Huh? Not sure about CNCs, but most of the Globals are stamped. And what does that prove anyway?

I said 'allows for balance'. I did not say that it is the only way. You can add bolsters, not very hygenic, or add weight to the handle. (Global)

Funny, cutlery marketing as usual promotes bolsters as more hygienic, as they seal the handle.

Never had a problem sharpening bolstered knives. Who cares about the last 2mm?

Some people do, and it's not last 2mm. just look at the pix posted above.

Forged? Forged? Why waste a metal? Why have a heavier knife?

Why would you misinterpret me on this one? I didn't say forging was a waste of metal, bolsters are, especially full ones. Again, I do own number of very high quality forged knives, none of them have a bolster.

Heavier? Since when does a guy who owns 15+ Busse's worry about weight in a knife?

Are you kidding? One has to choose and judge combat/survival knife and chef's knife by the same standards? How about, you try mincing a dozen or so shallots with Battle Mistress and then for a change do the same with nakiri or chef's knife.
Believe me, I did use pretty much every field knife I own in the kitchen as part of the tests. I can say that no way I will or I can use that type of knife for 3-4 hours of continuous, precision cutting. Isn't that obvious?
I do use kukris and Busses for chopping bones, coconuts and such. That's just because I like them and it's fun.

1) a lack of design variety in Japanese blades, i.e. no specific boning, cheese, curved paring etc.

Mduh. If there is one thing, Japanese kitchen knife makers cannot be accused of that is the lack of specific(often very specific) designs.
To answer your concerns, there's Hankotsu, direct analog of western boning knife. Then, we have honesuki, specifically designed for poultry boning/prepping, Garasuki larger version of it. Also, one could mention Deba, which in a way is fish boning knife so to say, Ai-Deba and Miroshi.
Global does have cheese knife and other Japanese makers make cheese knives too.
Paring knives, I don't know how curved you want them, but at least from what I have seen Japanese and western styles weren't that different. Unless, you mean hawkbill?

2) I don't like the geometry of Japanese knives.

You couldn't make more generic statement even if you tried. All of them? I suspect that has nothing to do with geometry then. Gyutos (chef's knives) are somewhere in between french and German chef's knives in terms of geometry. Is you look at Shuns and Globals again, they look very close to western designs. Akifusa(Ikeda) which is also Artisan, makes very french looking chef's knives. Kumagoro hammer forged, Yoshikane, are also along the same lines.

3) So, I may have to sharpen my knives 2 more times a year than I would with a harder steel. So what?

Hmm, how often one sharpens is a matter of personal choice, then use. I know a lot of folks who don't sharpen their kitchen knives for years. That doesn't mean those knives keep sharp edge forever, does it?
If you put 40-45 deg. angle on your kitchen knife, sure it'll last longer. However, you're loosing a lot of cutting ability. If it's not important and you just don't want to spend time on maintenance, that's your choice, but hardly a proof of edge holding abilities of softer western knives.
Anyway, for an experiment, try to sharpen your Wusthoff of Henckel to, let's say 10-12 deg angle per side and see how long it will last, and how often you will have to sharpen it it you want to keep it sharp.
I've tried that on several western knives. Doesn't hold up well enough to consider it worthy of keeping. Global doesn't holds that edge either.
On the other hand, I have nakiris (vegetable knife) sharpened to 7-8 deg. per side. Gyutos at ~10 deg per side. All I need to do is a touch up once in a week or two on 0.25mic diamond spray loaded leather strop, plus pre/post use steeling on the smooth rod. The difference in cutting ability compared to 40 deg western edges is just astonishing.

4) My Wusthof Salmon slicer easily rivals or beats any 'Sashmi' knife. Design, remember?

As far as I can tell, you never even had yanagi (sashimi knife). So, how do you know it easily rivals? Have you compared them? If you were to cut paper thin fish slices as its promo says, I assume you'd need a very thin edge on it. Then we're back to low hardness of the steel, therefore that edge won't last long. That would be my guess. I'm not dismissing that slicer, probably it's a good one for a home cook, or cake slicer. However, comparing to Yanagiba, which is as usual the hardest and thin edged knife doesn't look like a win for Wusthoff.

I guess a cook would be a better authority on 'the knives',

Sorry, if I wasn't clear in my prev. post. Cooks are not the best authority on the kitchen cutlery. Sad, but true. They might be very good knife users, but even that is often not the case. I'm referring to knife abuse by cooks.
Once again, unless a cook does research and spends considerable time choosing his knives, he will end up with the latest marketing hype, or whatever the budget allowed for, during that last sale.

Proving what? That issue knives suck? Newsflash: we know that.

Proving the point that just because you see X brand knife in the cook's hands doesn't mean squat. Unless you come up and talk to him you don't know that was his choice, given to him, or that's the best he could afford. Celebrity or any cook on TV show is another misleading matter, most of the times the knives they use are either sponsored or sometimes their own line... In other words vested interests.

This is precisly why 'Chefs', bring their own knives to work.

Not so many do, especially in general kitchens. Good knives there are subject to thievery, I've heard that many times.
Point is that, those cooks you talk about, are the same people we are. In culinary school, where they get the most of the knowledge they are subjected to the same full-tang-bolster-forged brainwashing. All of us get their share of that outside of the culinary school too. So, in the end they will end up with whatever they're taught.

Nice set of knives you have there. I do appreciate you posting a picture.

Thanks

 

[Absintheur]

Gator97 face it, unless you agree with everything bearcut says and are willing to buy the exact same knives he has then your are wrong by his standards. I agree with everything you have said for the most part, not everyone is the same, that is why there is more than one style of knife, and I am sure there are valid arguments for all of them. bearcut refuses to admit this so you might as well give up...lol.

personally I have never found a better veggie knife than my usuba...

 

[SShepherd]

unless you agree with everything bearcut says and are willing to buy the exact same knives he has then your are wrong

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that

 

[jim preston]

Funny, as I have access to a nice, forged, bolstered Henckels chef's knife, and yet I prefer to use an OH butcher or a Mora Swedish Army Knife in the kitchen. I guess design and comfort are characteristics that are more important than whether or not a knife is forged with a full tang and a bolster.
Also, forged knives aren't always better. Boning knives, for example, don't need to be forged. Same with cleavers.

 

[jim preston]

Oh, and as to celeb chefs using knives, the only one I pay attention to is Alton Brown, mainly because I know he's a knife guy himself.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

Bearcut has a long history of ignorance and trolling. He only started this thread so he could spout off and insult other people's choices. Just do yourselves a favor and ignore him.

 

[bearcut]

This column went south when I suggested that Old Hickory knives are crappy.
Perhaps I was wrong. The main critics in this column said otherwise.

Let’s get back on subject and show everyone our kitchen knife sets, if you have a set.


Can all of you please post pictures of your Old Hickory knives for us all to admire? I know we’ll all be impressed.

 

[Gator97]

part, not everyone is the same, that is why there is more than one style of knife, and I am sure there are valid arguments for all of them.

Agreed. I don't dismiss western style knives just because they're western. And I recommend them to most of the people who I know wont' take care of the fussy Japanese carbon knives, or have a limited budget.

On the other hand, back in the day, if someone told me same stuff, may be I'd skip buying a forged global knife for higher price

 

[SShepherd]

welded on bolsters

 

[C.S. Graves]

I forgot about this one, originally made by my great-great grandfather out of a saw blade. I've always loved the look of this thing: well-aged, thin, and since it was handed down to me, sharp!:

 

[Flashpoint]

 

[bearcut]

Wow! Some of you do have knife sets!
Those look great.

I like the saw blade knife too, what a converstion starter.

 

[Mongo1958]

Nice Knives. Shun classic?

 

[Flashpoint]

Nice Knives. Shun classic?

Thanks. I really like them.

Classics more or less. They're the Alton Angle version.