Lets talk GEC!

I have read the posts from the last 20-25(?) pages about GEC, their knives, quality control, etc.

I have never been a Barlow fan, don't currently have one and don't remember ever owning one and I have been carrying knives for 50 years or more. So that puts me out in left field, apparently. I do realize thy pattern has been around forever and many a person has carried them. My grandfather was one and he went through a couple in my time with him on the farm. I distinctly remember him talking about how new Barlow's, and maybe knives in general, were "okay" sharp when new because it was a source of pride for one to sharpen the knife to their specifications based on their use. This was how they were made back then and that was a general expectation. GEC still kinda follows that - make a knife that is a tried and true pattern and price it reasonably - it isn't a custom. To me, these are worker knives and only become collectible based on the variations of covers. What would my grandfather say about a glitter handle??? I have to laugh imagining his reaction.

I can't imagine that GEC doesn't know about how their knives are bought and sold these days and apparently are willing to stay the course, whatever that may be. I am not judging them, it is their business to run.

I have missed out on the last few offerings but I am not sad over it. Some of this is wanting to check out knives being made and see if it is for me and willing to move it on if it doesn't. I consider myself still new at this collecting and learning what I like and don't like. I would prefer to move it to someone who wants it and not flip it, but that is tough to follow these days. As an example, I have never been a fan of stag on folders - I have a fixed Randall with stag and it is just a different animal and is my favorite, aside from who it is made by. So I have acquired some stag folders in the last few months and found I am still not a fan. Again, welcome to left field! They will go away at some point and it has nothing to do with the pattern of knife. The Barlow falls in this area, I was willing to take a look at one to see if I feel the same and not upset at the least and will NOT pay flipper prices to figure that out.

I have enjoyed the discussions, carry on.
 
Jiki said:
The TC run just exponentially ramped up all the issues that GEC and it's customers are experiencing in the current environment.
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It sure does feel like it’s coming to a head, doesn’t it? To buy a GEC at Case prices is astounding, even if there’s proud springs or liner gaps. Shoot- if I go buy a random Case I’m likely to get all of that and more! Blade wobble plagues my Case knives, which drives me nuts in a new knife.

at $65 I’d be glad to have one of those TC’s. I will say that the “Farm and Field” line is branded to be the inexpensive working class of knife; the knives I would buy expecting imperfections. Perhaps if the 5 cent knife was GEC’s goal they might have branded it differently.
 
Will Power said:
As for Flippers and their dupes, I very much doubt if they are bothered-or even KNOW about Flush springs on open/close :rolleyes: They likely don't even handle the knife as their 'investment' might pick up a pepper-spot :eek:
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Thats right, usually the tagline for these sales/trades posts are "only out of the tube for pictures" :rolleyes:
 
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The traditional knife market has gained such a following over the last decade that it seems to be introducing its own pessimism. Before GEC started producing knives in 2007, there was a completely different standard in what was exceptional. Small gaps, crappy factory edges, off center blades, etc. were simply what you got if you bought even the best brands 20 years ago. Case, Queen, Case Classics, Winchester repros, Boker, Hen & Rooster, etc. etc. all were made my hand with older equipment and had these small issues. Examine a Case stag from the 1970's; or a Case Classic from the 1990's. Because GEC made such a great knife, they imposed a new standard that eventually put a lot of pressure on all makers; including themselves. Now we are pulling a lot of interest from the modern crowd as well. So we are getting a lot of participation from those that either had no experience in the 1990's; or were mostly experiences in modern folders with linerlock/framelock all metal construction. So, now that GEC has expanded the crowd base by their quality product - they are being judged many times by folks that have little to no experience in the actual traditional market. That is not all bad, as it will apply pressure for them to keep their quality in check. But it does apply pressure to a market that wasn't built, nor is expected, to fix all the problems of hand made knives on 100 year old equipment. This newly imposed requirement along with a demand for quantity over quality is being handled appropriately at the factory. Thus, if some customers are lost because GEC simply can't meet their expectations is probably better for both parties in the long run as long as GEC stays true to what GEC's goals are for their products.

This may read like a negative sentiment; it is not. My personal opinion is that if the GEC product is not for you, given the current market conditions both parties might be better off if you did find the correct product for your expectations of a maker. I see no sense in chastising a maker because their lowest priced knife in years, produced during a time where employees are in short supply due to a pandemic, comes at a little lower build quality than their knives 50% higher. And those that feel like they should get more for their $65, might be happier with a handful of rr's.
 
knifeswapper said:
The traditional knife market has gained such a following over the last decade that it seems to be introducing its own pessimism. Before GEC started producing knives in 2007, there was a completely different standard in what was exceptional. Small gaps, crappy factory edges, off center blades, etc. were simply what you got if you bought even the best brands 20 years ago. Case, Queen, Case Classics, Winchester repros, Boker, Hen & Rooster, etc. etc. all were made my hand with older equipment and had these small issues. Examine a Case stag from the 1970's; or a Case Classic from the 1990's. Because GEC made such a great knife, they imposed a new standard that eventually put a lot of pressure on all makers; including themselves. Now we are pulling a lot of interest from the modern crowd as well. So we are getting a lot of participation from those that either had no experience in the 1990's; or were mostly experiences in modern folders with linerlock/framelock all metal construction. So, now that GEC has expanded the crowd base by their quality product - they are being judged many times by folks that have little to no experience in the actual traditional market. That is not all bad, as it will apply pressure for them to keep their quality in check. But it does apply pressure to a market that wasn't built, nor is expected, to fix all the problems of hand made knives on 100 year old equipment. This newly imposed requirement along with a demand for quantity over quality is being handled appropriately at the factory. Thus, if some customers are lost because GEC simply can't meet their expectations is probably better for both parties in the long run as long as GEC stays true to what GEC's goals are for their products.

This may read like a negative sentiment; it is not. My personal opinion is that if the GEC product is not for you, given the current market conditions both parties might be better off if you did find the correct product for your expectations of a maker. I see no sense in chastising a maker because their lowest priced knife in years, produced during a time where employees are in short supply due to a pandemic, comes at a little lower build quality than their knives 50% higher. And those that feel like they should get more for their $65, might be happier with a handful of rr's.
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Well said. Appreciate your well thought out points!
 
knifeswapper knifeswapper just for fun- let me pose this question: What if the most recent "budget" TC's had been branded as Farm and Field Work Knives?

I imagine there's a lot of folks who got a 2021 TC knife in the mail that would have been happy with for $65 but they bought it at $150+. I'd gamble that F&F might have readjusted expectations.

For the record I'm really sorry I couldn't land one of those Osage. The nature of my work makes it all but impossible to compete for desirable knives. I'm hoping my #15 cocobolo boys knife odds are better.
 
So I gather this run of boys knives is more substantial. Any guess on the total quantity being produced? I am thinking people are just going to buy multiples to satisfy their pent up need for a GEC. Add to that the feeling of no matter what you can get you can always resell it for more. It sort of snowballs the whole process of consumption of product.

Good luck one and all. It is just nice hangin' out with you guys.

,,,Mike in Canada
 
knifeswapper said:
The traditional knife market has gained such a following over the last decade that it seems to be introducing its own pessimism. Before GEC started producing knives in 2007, there was a completely different standard in what was exceptional. Small gaps, crappy factory edges, off center blades, etc. were simply what you got if you bought even the best brands 20 years ago. Case, Queen, Case Classics, Winchester repros, Boker, Hen & Rooster, etc. etc. all were made my hand with older equipment and had these small issues. Examine a Case stag from the 1970's; or a Case Classic from the 1990's. Because GEC made such a great knife, they imposed a new standard that eventually put a lot of pressure on all makers; including themselves. Now we are pulling a lot of interest from the modern crowd as well. So we are getting a lot of participation from those that either had no experience in the 1990's; or were mostly experiences in modern folders with linerlock/framelock all metal construction. So, now that GEC has expanded the crowd base by their quality product - they are being judged many times by folks that have little to no experience in the actual traditional market. That is not all bad, as it will apply pressure for them to keep their quality in check. But it does apply pressure to a market that wasn't built, nor is expected, to fix all the problems of hand made knives on 100 year old equipment. This newly imposed requirement along with a demand for quantity over quality is being handled appropriately at the factory. Thus, if some customers are lost because GEC simply can't meet their expectations is probably better for both parties in the long run as long as GEC stays true to what GEC's goals are for their products.

This may read like a negative sentiment; it is not. My personal opinion is that if the GEC product is not for you, given the current market conditions both parties might be better off if you did find the correct product for your expectations of a maker. I see no sense in chastising a maker because their lowest priced knife in years, produced during a time where employees are in short supply due to a pandemic, comes at a little lower build quality than their knives 50% higher. And those that feel like they should get more for their $65, might be happier with a handful of rr's.
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I hope some people read this post multiple times.
 
waynorth said:
they sand the handle material flat, then "pucker" the liners a couple of thousands of an inch so they will draw together tightly during assembly!
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I didn't want this little golden nugget to get lost in the shuffle.
Thanks for the education, Charlie. :cool::thumbsup:

Tx308 said:
What about one pattern a year.
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But what if that pattern was the #38 Special or the #15 Bail and Chain? :D
 
The last 20 pages or so of this thread tends to overlook one fact: one of the artifacts of capitalism is that it is possible for someone to make money for themselves without creating wealth for society, by exploiting the difference between the current price and the real market value of something. This is what these flippers are doing. The current market value for a TC Barlow is clearly many times higher than the retail price. So GEC creates wealth (by making a knife), and the vendors create wealth (by retailing that knife to customers), but they've priced the knife so far below its actual current market value that someone is going to make money off of that difference. I would much rather have GEC or knifeswapper knifeswapper or someone - anyone - involved in creating the value get that money, than have the flippers get rich off of pricing errors. But the flippers will continue to profit until that price/value mismatch is resolved - either by the price going up, or by having the value go down. I don't have any insight into how GEC sets prices, but I suspect that they are operating under the assumption that the current high valuation is a bubble, and they don't want to raise prices and then get hit by the crash. But if the values really stay that high over time, it will be interesting to see what happens.

All of what I just said only makes sense if you understand that 'quality' is not the same as 'value'. I think it's Juran who defined 'quality' as 'fitness for use'. 'Market Value' is the aggregate of what people are willing to pay for something. So a new TC Barlow that's not hitting the quality expectations that everyone has come to have, based on the past TC Barlows, might still have a crazy-high market value, because of limited quantities and high demand.

I do think it's unfortunate that the reports of the last few runs of GEC knives seem to have a higher number of fit and finish defects than we generally expect from GEC, and I suspect that this will have a longer-term impact on their brand than the current collecting bubble. I've noticed on threads about Case quality that the die-hard fans get annoyed when people point out all of their F&F flaws, and so I'm not surprised to see a little bit of that showing up among GEC fans. But everyone has to decide for themselves what their expectations are, and how much deviations from those expectations they're willing to accept. In the end, if GEC keeps making knives with fitment that doesn't live up to their own history and reputation, the discontinuity between price and value may sort itself out, but not in a way that many of us would want.

-Tyson
 
Reading over Mike's comments makes me almost wonder if the factory barlows produced were almost somewhat of a test run. People have often yelled to up the production of GECs to meet demand. The only way to accomplish this is to either expand the factory with more machines and employees or have the factory floor work faster. Naturally with increased speed you sacrifice some quality. Maybe bill was experimenting to see if he tries to up the production rates how many complaints will he get from us knife nuts?

I missed out on the last few runs but I would have been super happy if I was able score one at the price point from one of the reputable dealers that don't heavily mark up their knives, even if it had very minor imperfections. In comparison I've been eyeing some sheiffield lambsfoot knives for a long time but those are priced at 85 to 125, and from seeing photos can come in with centering issues and pretty substantial gaps on the back spring. It's rough for me to fork that out when expecting f&f issues like that but what for what guys like CKs were charging for the barlow I still feel that's a steal.
 
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Tyson A Wright said:
The current market value for a TC Barlow is clearly many times higher than the retail price.
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Is it though? A few outliers being sold for outrageous prices does not mean that is the current market value.
It means there are a few wealthy collectors that are willing to pay somebody else to deal with the hassle of getting one of these knives.
I doubt there are enough of those wealthy collectors to buy all the TCs that were made in this run.

It seems those wealthy collectors that are buying TCs for $300+ are messing up the market value algorithm that people run in their heads. Joe Average picks up a TC for retail and then sees these posts on BF or FB or IG that are screenshots of ebay sales for the same knife that he paid $70 for marked at $450 and he's like "Oh man, this TC is too valuable to use" and he turns it into a safe queen. Doesn't use it and when he might someday go to trade it or sell it he's got that $450 value in mind, even though it's only a $70 knife.
 
LOL...
Love it or leave it... If you don't like it, go somewhere else...
Typical retail thinking and mantra these days.
The consumer is always wrong.
The consumer has no rights and are not even allowed to complain.
We have loved GEC for many many years, as long as you have, and should be free to air out observations w/out recrimination.
 
Norcaldude said:
Is it though? A few outliers being sold for outrageous prices does not mean that is the current market value.
It means there are a few wealthy collectors that are willing to pay somebody else to deal with the hassle of getting one of these knives.
I doubt there are enough of those wealthy collectors to buy all the TCs that were made in this run.

It seems those wealthy collectors that are buying TCs for $300+ are messing up the market value algorithm that people run in their heads. Joe Average picks up a TC for retail and then sees these posts on BF or FB or IG that are screenshots of ebay sales for the same knife that he paid $70 for marked at $450 and he's like "Oh man, this TC is too valuable to use" and he turns it into a safe queen. Doesn't use it and when he might someday go to trade it or sell it he's got that $450 value in mind, even though it's only a $70 knife.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say I'm super wealthy, but I do have a monthly knife collecting budget, and if I cannot obtain all the ones I want from a particular release, I will put all that budget into getting my favorite knife of the recent releases on the secondary market.
 
Norcaldude said:
Is it though? A few outliers being sold for outrageous prices does not mean that is the current market value.
It means there are a few wealthy collectors that are willing to pay somebody else to deal with the hassle of getting one of these knives.
I doubt there are enough of those wealthy collectors to buy all the TCs that were made in this run.

It seems those wealthy collectors that are buying TCs for $300+ are messing up the market value algorithm that people run in their heads. Joe Average picks up a TC for retail and then sees these posts on BF or FB or IG that are screenshots of ebay sales for the same knife that he paid $70 for marked at $450 and he's like "Oh man, this TC is too valuable to use" and he turns it into a safe queen. Doesn't use it and when he might someday go to trade it or sell it he's got that $450 value in mind, even though it's only a $70 knife.
Click to expand...
You might be right, but when I looked on the bay recently it seemed like there were quite a few of these going for high prices. And it seems like most dealers were selling out pretty fast even at high prices. As to someone pulling it out of the safe to sell high next year, well, high market value today doesn't mean high market value tomorrow...

-Tyson
 
My personal opinion is that if the GEC product is not for you, given the current market conditions both parties might be better off if you did find the correct product for your expectations of a maker.

LOL...you are so funny.
Love it or leave it... If you don't like it, go somewhere else...
Typical retail thinking and mantra these days.
The consumer is always wrong.
The consumer has no rights and are not even allowed to complain.
We have loved GEC for many many years, as long as you have, and should be free to air out observations w/out recrimination.
 
I just had to carry this one today.

asejCjx.jpg
 
Sorry for the double post, I can't figure out how to delete it.
 
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