Lets talk GEC!

Stropping Young Lad said:
Good to know, I was just preparing to overpay for one. I’ve had a recent fascination with them.
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Sit tight if you can wait...supposed to come in the Spring. And I don't know nuthin' about nuthin'...but the word on the street is there could be some SFOs along with it :rolleyes:
 
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I
Stropping Young Lad said:
Good to know, I was just preparing to overpay for one. I’ve had a recent fascination with them.
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I think the #12 is a pattern I could stay away from for the most part. I might like a 2 bladed Northfield. Maybe a Tidioute with neat enough acrylic. Or abalone. But other than that, I think I can sit that run out, let my wallet heal a bit.
 
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I like the 12’s. A lot!! I was weaned on modern folders but the first traditionals I sought out were toothpicks and trappers. I don’t have any photos of mine right now, but the first GEC’s I purchased were the 12, 48, 65 and 85. I still have the real OG’s. I don’t think I could ever sell any of those.

Don’t know why I love the toothpicks, but I do, especially GEC’s stout version. Queen made the super slender ones though.
 
I own a #77 Kingwood, #73 Cocobolo, #72 African Blackwood, and a #35 Gaboon Ebony. I also find that I have a moral problem. They are all on CITES Schedule II list of endangered species. African Elephant Ivory is on the Schedule I list which includes Rhinoceros horns and Brazilian Rosewood (Dalbergia nigra). It is said that the different Rosewoods can be identified from Brazilian Rosewood only with a DNA test.
The entire genus of Dalbergia has been placed on the Schedule II list. This includes all of the true Rosewoods. This was done because of the 1.5 billion Chinese which have an insatiable appetite for Rosewood. For 1000 years, empirical furniture was made of rosewood. In fact, they are buying all woods that remotely resembles Rosewood in massive quantities. They are clear cutting the entire world. Rhinoceros are near extinction for 2 reasons, using their horns for traditional Arabian dagger handles and the Chinese using them for aphrodisiacs.
Many knife makers use Schedule II materials, including GEC. It is legal if the material is already located in the country of manufacture. It technically is illegal to export the manufactured product. But how does the material get here? Does it come in legally? No one knows.
The auction website no longer permits the sale of Schedule I products (Ivory). It is just a matter of time before Schedule II will be prohibited there.
For 36 years my hobby was watch repair of antique pocket watches. To do that you needed watch tools that are obsolete. The most beautiful tool I had contained ivory. I got rid of it.
Since I am now in my 80s, if I do nothing, my moral problem will take care of itself. How can you fight 1.5 billion people?
Should I dump the above mentioned GEC knives?
 
H2O2HI said:
...Should I dump the above mentioned GEC knives?
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In a word, no. Here’s my reasoning:

I understand your moral dilemma. As someone who loves vintage musical instruments (as well as knives) I decided years ago to not buy Brazilian rosewood, tortoise shell, or ivory.

Yes, it is possible to find examples of these products that were legally sourced (such as tortoise flatpicks made from old hair combs or containers, or rosewood sourced from stumps), but I didn’t want to feed the demand, as that encourages illegal/unethical/immoral activities.

But if I owned a vintage guitar with Brazilian rosewood I would keep it and enjoy it. It is the product of a bygone age, and by selling it I’d be propping up the market. Destroying it would be tantamount to hunting an animal and letting it rot.

FWIW, I do not mean to cast aspersions on those who own and enjoy items made with legally-sourced products from endangered species. I enjoy the beauty of ivory as much as the next guy; owning it is just not for me. As the young kids say, you do you.
 
H2O2HI said:
I own a #77 Kingwood, #73 Cocobolo, #72 African Blackwood, and a #35 Gaboon Ebony. I also find that I have a moral problem. They are all on CITES Schedule II list of endangered species. African Elephant Ivory is on the Schedule I list which includes Rhinoceros horns and Brazilian Rosewood (Dalbergia nigra). It is said that the different Rosewoods can be identified from Brazilian Rosewood only with a DNA test.
The entire genus of Dalbergia has been placed on the Schedule II list. This includes all of the true Rosewoods. This was done because of the 1.5 billion Chinese which have an insatiable appetite for Rosewood. For 1000 years, empirical furniture was made of rosewood. In fact, they are buying all woods that remotely resembles Rosewood in massive quantities. They are clear cutting the entire world. Rhinoceros are near extinction for 2 reasons, using their horns for traditional Arabian dagger handles and the Chinese using them for aphrodisiacs.
Many knife makers use Schedule II materials, including GEC. It is legal if the material is already located in the country of manufacture. It technically is illegal to export the manufactured product. But how does the material get here? Does it come in legally? No one knows.
The auction website no longer permits the sale of Schedule I products (Ivory). It is just a matter of time before Schedule II will be prohibited there.
For 36 years my hobby was watch repair of antique pocket watches. To do that you needed watch tools that are obsolete. The most beautiful tool I had contained ivory. I got rid of it.
Since I am now in my 80s, if I do nothing, my moral problem will take care of itself. How can you fight 1.5 billion people?
Should I dump the above mentioned GEC knives?
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IMO, if you dump those knives you are truly wasting the resources. Those resources have already been harvested, respect them, care for them, and pass them down to the next generation preventing your children from having the need to harvest the resources. For they will already have them and special ones at that. Just my two cents.
 
H2O2HI said:
I own a #77 Kingwood, #73 Cocobolo, #72 African Blackwood, and a #35 Gaboon Ebony. I also find that I have a moral problem. They are all on CITES Schedule II list of endangered species. African Elephant Ivory is on the Schedule I list which includes Rhinoceros horns and Brazilian Rosewood (Dalbergia nigra). It is said that the different Rosewoods can be identified from Brazilian Rosewood only with a DNA test.
The entire genus of Dalbergia has been placed on the Schedule II list. This includes all of the true Rosewoods. This was done because of the 1.5 billion Chinese which have an insatiable appetite for Rosewood. For 1000 years, empirical furniture was made of rosewood. In fact, they are buying all woods that remotely resembles Rosewood in massive quantities. They are clear cutting the entire world. Rhinoceros are near extinction for 2 reasons, using their horns for traditional Arabian dagger handles and the Chinese using them for aphrodisiacs.
Many knife makers use Schedule II materials, including GEC. It is legal if the material is already located in the country of manufacture. It technically is illegal to export the manufactured product. But how does the material get here? Does it come in legally? No one knows.
The auction website no longer permits the sale of Schedule I products (Ivory). It is just a matter of time before Schedule II will be prohibited there.
For 36 years my hobby was watch repair of antique pocket watches. To do that you needed watch tools that are obsolete. The most beautiful tool I had contained ivory. I got rid of it.
Since I am now in my 80s, if I do nothing, my moral problem will take care of itself. How can you fight 1.5 billion people?
Should I dump the above mentioned GEC knives?
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I wouldn’t dump them, but if you do, dump them towards me.
 
H2O2HI said:
I own a #77 Kingwood, #73 Cocobolo, #72 African Blackwood, and a #35 Gaboon Ebony. I also find that I have a moral problem. They are all on CITES Schedule II list of endangered species. African Elephant Ivory is on the Schedule I list which includes Rhinoceros horns and Brazilian Rosewood (Dalbergia nigra). It is said that the different Rosewoods can be identified from Brazilian Rosewood only with a DNA test.
The entire genus of Dalbergia has been placed on the Schedule II list. This includes all of the true Rosewoods. This was done because of the 1.5 billion Chinese which have an insatiable appetite for Rosewood. For 1000 years, empirical furniture was made of rosewood. In fact, they are buying all woods that remotely resembles Rosewood in massive quantities. They are clear cutting the entire world. Rhinoceros are near extinction for 2 reasons, using their horns for traditional Arabian dagger handles and the Chinese using them for aphrodisiacs.
Many knife makers use Schedule II materials, including GEC. It is legal if the material is already located in the country of manufacture. It technically is illegal to export the manufactured product. But how does the material get here? Does it come in legally? No one knows.
The auction website no longer permits the sale of Schedule I products (Ivory). It is just a matter of time before Schedule II will be prohibited there.
For 36 years my hobby was watch repair of antique pocket watches. To do that you needed watch tools that are obsolete. The most beautiful tool I had contained ivory. I got rid of it.
Since I am now in my 80s, if I do nothing, my moral problem will take care of itself. How can you fight 1.5 billion people?
Should I dump the above mentioned GEC knives?
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Absolutely!!!! Get rid of them. You never know when that knock is going to come to your door and your house turned upside down just as what happened to the guitar maker. Heavy fines, confiscation and at worst, jail time.

I'm just waiting for the day when GEC is raided and their CITES cover materials seized.
 
Stropping Young Lad said:
I wouldn’t dump them, but if you do, dump them towards me.
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Ha! :D Get in line!

It is an interesting question, and I admit I haven't yet given it enough serious thought with regards to new knives made with endangered wood. I wonder if GEC has or will make any statement about their sourcing.

I collect vintage knives, and while I would not buy a new knife made of ivory, I can't see any benefit to destroying a 100 year old ivory handled antique. Perhaps the argument can be made that displaying it creates a desire in others for the material. I'll have to ponder that, but for now, I don't feel guilty about keeping one. Of course, I say that, but I suspect if I had an old ivory knife in my pocket and happened to meet an elephant, he'd know. :oops:
 
r8shell said:
Ha! :D Get in line!

It is an interesting question, and I admit I haven't yet given it enough serious thought with regards to new knives made with endangered wood. I wonder if GEC has or will make any statement about their sourcing.

I collect vintage knives, and while I would not buy a new knife made of ivory, I can't see any benefit to destroying a 100 year old ivory handled antique. Perhaps the argument can be made that displaying it creates a desire in others for the material. I'll have to ponder that, but for now, I don't feel guilty about keeping one. Of course, I say that, but I suspect if I had an old ivory knife in my pocket and happened to meet an elephant, he'd know. :oops:
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There's definitely a difference between keeping one and displaying one. Promoting the fact that one has a rare and banned item would be a far cry from owning and using such an item without making comments about it. I suppose putting it in a display case might be a kind of promotion, but unless you are a seller or are continually inviting other collectors to see your display, it seems relatively harmless, doesn't it?
 
JTB_5 said:
There's definitely a difference between keeping one and displaying one. Promoting the fact that one has a rare and banned item would be a far cry from owning and using such an item without making comments about it. I suppose putting it in a display case might be a kind of promotion, but unless you are a seller or are continually inviting other collectors to see your display, it seems relatively harmless, doesn't it?
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I suppose so. I mean, if I post a picture here of an antique, will others see it and want one? That's fine by me if they are looking for another antique. As long as no new elephants are killed for new ivory.
 
r8shell said:
I suppose so. I mean, if I post a picture here of an antique, will others see it and want one? That's fine by me if they are looking for another antique. As long as no new elephants are killed for new ivory.
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True; audience matters. But then again, it is hard to say who is watching on the internet.
 
r8shell said:
I collect vintage knives, and while I would not buy a new knife made of ivory, I can't see any benefit to destroying a 100 year old ivory handled antique.
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Indeed, not only is there little to no benefit it may be argued that destroying an artifact only artificially increases the rarity of the remaining artifacts of its type. There are those collectors that focus on collecting artifacts based on the belief that the smaller the available quantity an item the greater the value of the remaining specimens. By increasing the rarity of such items, one increases the desirability to such collectors. Artificially increasing rarity may well have the unintentional consequence of artificially increasing demand.
 
If everything is harvested and used legally, I’m okay with it. I feel most damage is done by irresponsible and unregulated use, much of which happens in the eastern hemisphere, not to say it’s not fueled by western demand.

This is undoubtedly in bad taste, but it reminds me of a musical number by Montgomery Burns, set to the tune of “be my guest”.

Some men hunt for sport,
Others hunt for food,
The only thing I'm hunting for,
Is an outfit that looks good...
See my vest, see my vest,
Made from real gorilla chest,
Feel this sweater, there's no better,
Than authentic Irish setter.
See this hat, 'twas my cat,
My evening wear - vampire bat,
These white slippers are albino
African endangered rhino.
Grizzly bear underwear,
Turtles' necks, I've got my share,
Beret of poodle, on my noodle
It shall rest,
Try my red robin suit,
It comes one breast or two,
See my vest, see my vest,
See my vest.
Like my loafers? Former gophers -
It was that or skin my chauffeurs,
But a greyhound fur tuxedo
Would be best,
So let's prepare these dogs,
(Kill two for matching clogs, )
See my vest, see my vest,
see my vest,
oh please won't you see my vest
 
From CITES: Appendix II includes species not necessarily threatened with extinction, but in which trade must be controlled in order to avoid utilization incompatible with their survival.

Don't throw them out and don't worry about anyone getting raided. Schedule II is a documented export/import only. It is not illegal coming or going as long as it is declared and inspected. Problem is that legal inspection costs $93. That doesn't hurt so bad when a factory imports a ton of it; but it stings pretty bad going out one knife at a time. Fines and fees on an attempted bypass total about $450/shipment. And if they catch it undeclared, they can assume every package you have previously exported was also in violation. They can show up and gather your electronics, records, etc. So, all these guys sending stag, cocobolo, and ebony without declaring and paying the fees can be charged $450 for every international package FWS can account to them. That will break most companies; and I'm actually surprised whistleblowers have not started collecting rewards yet. Order a knife from a neighboring country; give FWS the tracking number; collect your rewards. Or dealers could really thin out the competition pretty quick; because 99% of dealers will send you an undeclared stag knife.

 
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