Lets talk GEC!

[EngrSorenson]

GEC, you need to work on your sharpening when it comes to spearpoints blades. Dull as a butter knife near the tip.

Personally I hate the edge most companies put on their knives. One of the very first things I do is put a proper edge on my new knife- how could I possibly tell if I would like a knife when it’s ability to cut is handicapped by some factory process? I’ve seen the tour videos of GEC; after they spend all that time making a gorgeous knife they pass them over a grinding wheel and some kind of honing wheel. At that point Mr. Howard says something about “hair whittling sharp”. All I saw happen was Joan C. Public put on some serviceable bevel, and it can’t possibly be even. I know they aren’t good bevels because I spend a lot of time correcting what I consider to be a shoddy edge on brand new knives. It’s not just GEC- it’s Case and all of them. The one part of the knife that is it’s essential function never gets the time and care it deserves. When I sent my Pemberton in for warranty I sent instruction to please not put the factory edge back on. At this point I wish they’d just send the knives out and forget about putting on an edge. I can take care of that and it will save time, effort and metal.

 

[knifeswapper]

Personally I hate the edge most companies put on their knives. One of the very first things I do is put a proper edge on my new knife- how could I possibly tell if I would like a knife when it’s ability to cut is handicapped by some factory process? I’ve seen the tour videos of GEC; after they spend all that time making a gorgeous knife they pass them over a grinding wheel and some kind of honing wheel. At that point Mr. Howard says something about “hair whittling sharp”. All I saw happen was Joan C. Public put on some serviceable bevel, and it can’t possibly be even. I know they aren’t good bevels because I spend a lot of time correcting what I consider to be a shoddy edge on brand new knives. It’s not just GEC- it’s Case and all of them. The one part of the knife that is it’s essential function never gets the time and care it deserves. When I sent my Pemberton in for warranty I sent instruction to please not put the factory edge back on. At this point I wish they’d just send the knives out and forget about putting on an edge. I can take care of that and it will save time, effort and metal.

If they spent 30 minutes per knife putting on an edge they would really be proud of - the percentage of folks that appreciated the factory edge would increase by maybe 2%. For those that know exactly what type of edge they like, and can produce it - they are going to do it themselves anyway. For those that don't - the factory edge is fine in most cases. For me it's like the Husky floor liners, tinted windows, running boards, and a bed liner in any new truck purchase - that's just something I expect to do to make it mine. The factory might start doing all four exactly as I like - but I'm not holding my breath. The trucks trailer just fine without them; and they would add way more to the sticker than I am going to pay to install myself.

 

[EngrSorenson]

If they spent 30 minutes per knife putting on an edge they would really be proud of - the percentage of folks that appreciated the factory edge would increase by maybe 2%. For those that know exactly what type of edge they like, and can produce it - they are going to do it themselves anyway. For those that don't - the factory edge is fine in most cases. For me it's like the Husky floor liners, tinted windows, running boards, and a bed liner in any new truck purchase - that's just something I expect to do to make it mine. The factory might start doing all four exactly as I like - but I'm not holding my breath. The trucks trailer just fine without them; and they would add way more to the sticker than I am going to pay to install myself.

oh I’m sure there’s a business decision behind it- no argument there; but if I continue with your analogy, the tinted windows (et cetera, et cetera) don’t effect the usefulness of a truck as a truck (or the fact that your friends will ask you to help them to move, for that matter). I’m not saying companies have to spend 30 minutes/knife putting on an edge, but I think we can all agree that the process could be improved. Personally I’d rather start without an edge and put one on than correct whatever grind comes from the factory; especially if we consider how relatively short lived any given edge is compared to the life of the knife.

There are a few examples of manufacturers that make knives that have really great edges out of the box. Flex cut or Deepwoods Ventures comes to mind. I don’t have to fidget with them before I get carving.

all for the sake of discussion, though I definitely hate how critical I am about things I love.

 

[Jiki]

Jiki- do you do most of your carving in basswood? The 1095 from GEC does a great job on basswood. Walnut, etc definitely cause me to reach for the strop more often. Also, when you say “put it to good use” do you mean for food? Or carving? I’d looked at those bunkhouse knives and wondered if they’re be good carving knives.

Yes, mostly basswood. The Bunkhouse will be a kitchen knife for me, I prefer to carve with a 1-1.5 inch blade.

 

[knifeswapper]

... I’m not saying companies have to spend 30 minutes/knife putting on an edge, but I think we can all agree that the process could be improved. Personally I’d rather start without an edge and put one on than correct whatever grind comes from the factory; especially if we consider how relatively short lived any given edge is compared to the life of the knife.

There are a few examples of manufacturers that make knives that have really great edges out of the box. Flex cut or Deepwoods Ventures comes to mind. I don’t have to fidget with them before I get carving.

all for the sake of discussion, though I definitely hate how critical I am about things I love.

I see very few knives come thru here that I don't see something I think could be improved. But my point is that companies need to spend their resources on aspects where their resources are appreciated for the value they provide. If you are putting on an edge that 95% of the customer base is happy with - why spend the time and money figuring out how to perfect that process? Especially if 2 of the last 5% are still going to re-do it when it arrives to them. GEC has done much worse on edges - their final honing is vastly improved from where it was 5 years ago. Those that were around then, showed great appreciation for their improvements. But like most aspects, once your improvements are forgotten - people are looking for you to improve upon them. A push for constant improvement is fine; as long as that improvement is possible within the bounds of your resources and value target. GEC makes hand made knives on equipment from the hayday of handmade knives. Nobody else that does that comes close to as good an edge. Ok, ok, they all went bankrupt - but that is the nature of things....

 

[EngrSorenson]

...Especially if 2 of the last 5% are still going to re-do it when it arrives to them.

...A push for constant improvement is fine; as long as that improvement is possible within the bounds of your resources and value target. GEC makes hand made knives on equipment from the hayday of handmade knives. Nobody else that does that comes close to as good an edge. Ok, ok, they all went bankrupt - but that is the nature of things....

You have two excellent points there.

Maybe they could benefit from your preordering mechanism; perhaps customers could pay a little extra for a primo sharpening job up front. A little more logistics to keep track of, but that certainly would be a differentiator.

I realize that’s probably simplistic, but it’s creative solutions that I’m interested in.

 

[gaj999]

The factory might start doing all four exactly as I like - but I'm not holding my breath. The trucks trailer just fine without them; and they would add way more to the sticker than I am going to pay to install myself.

Yes and no. Jeep did a great job of including the mods that 90% of off-roaders were making to new Jeeps when they created their Rubicon package. And it came in at less than half the price it was costing folks to do on their own. But they're the exception that proves the rule.

 

[gaj999]

Personally I hate the edge most companies put on their knives. One of the very first things I do is put a proper edge on my new knife- how could I possibly tell if I would like a knife when it’s ability to cut is handicapped by some factory process?

This times one hundred. So my pet peeve becomes thick grinds. It's always something. Besides, every time I've gotten a sharp knife from a factory the edge broke down rapidly because the very apex got over heated during sharpening on the grinder. So until the factory starts hand-sharpening, I'm going to do it out of the box.

 

[Kiteman72]

GEC's sharpening is so much better than it used to be, that it's almost unbelievable.

knifeswapper has said this already. "GEC sharp" used to be a term that was used a bit around here. It meant "not sharp at all".

 

[Jiki]

You all are just "sharp" knife divas. (I use that term to be nice, what I call you in my head is worse.)

What do you mean by "a proper" edge? How is GEC supposed to know your intended use for that knife? Or even a use for a specific blade on a knife? What you consider "a proper " edge I may find to be useless. This goes right back to the conversation a week or so ago about blade wrap. If it's a queen you're not going to sharpen or use it anyway. If it's a user make it want you want it to be, you know you want to sharpen it anyway. Just be a little less condescending when you tell us about it.

 

[jsdistin]

Even if they put on a perfect edge for most people and charged extra I don’t think it would be adequate for people that put on their own edges (myself included) I think that the perfect edge for most people would have a much more obtuse angle than people who sharpen themselves would find acceptable, it’s an edge that needs to last for a while so it will always be at a larger angle than one would put on themselves since it can be touched up and resharpened whenever. They also really do cut just fine, I normally resharpen the second I open the tube but a few I’ve got recently I’ve waited a day or two and they have worked quite well.

 

[Ramrodmb]

You have two excellent points there.

Maybe they could benefit from your preordering mechanism; perhaps customers could pay a little extra for a primo sharpening job up front. A little more logistics to keep track of, but that certainly would be a differentiator.

I realize that’s probably simplistic, but it’s creative solutions that I’m interested in.

It seems like the people who would be picky enough to do that would probably never be happy, no matter what the factory did. Personally, I've never had a problem adjusting them slightly to fit my tastes. I've not received any that I would call more than very slightly uneven (from GEC).
Alternatively, there are people who will professionally sharpen a knife, for a fee, something that I've never understood either, as that's half the fun!

 

[Ramrodmb]

This times one hundred. So my pet peeve becomes thick grinds. It's always something. Besides, every time I've gotten a sharp knife from a factory the edge broke down rapidly because the very apex got over heated during sharpening on the grinder. So until the factory starts hand-sharpening, I'm going to do it out of the box.

Thick grinds are a legitimate problem that cannot be remedied by the average person as easily as a new edge. That's what I love about GEC (and 1095): almost never an overly thick grind!
IMO

 

[joeradza]

As an all around EDC knife for both looks and function the 73 stag is hard to beat.

 

[JohnDF]

Jeep did a great job of including the mods that 90% of off-roaders were making to new Jeeps when they created their Rubicon package.

Their Rocktrac transfer case is a good one. However, their "off road" axles leave a lot to be desired and are usually the first thing modified or replaced by true off road drivers. The sway bar disconnect is another "fluff" option that is usually replaced by an expensive dual rate sway bar. Over-all it's a great package for your casual wheelers and hunting crowd. But just like knife edges, a real Jeeper will fuss over the details.

 

[knifeswapper]

Maybe they could benefit from your preordering mechanism; perhaps customers could pay a little extra for a primo sharpening job up front. A little more logistics to keep track of, but that certainly would be a differentiator.

Done. When you place your order, put your favorite professional sharpener as the delivery address. Send them an email, tell them it is coming and your criteria - 17dps, 1600grit finish, etc. etc.
The premium is their service fee (@$20-30) and their shipping fee. Have customers do it all the time, especially international customers that essentially use them as a re-shipper with benefits.

 

[Duper]

Done. When you place your order, put your favorite professional sharpener as the delivery address. Send them an email, tell them it is coming and your criteria - 17dps, 1600grit finish, etc. etc.
The premium is their service fee (@$20-30) and their shipping fee. Have customers do it all the time, especially international customers that essentially use them as a re-shipper with benefits.

Knifeswapper, I so love the sanity and honest perspective you bring to the forum. Thanks for keeping us grounded.

,,,Mike in Canada

 

[gaj999]

You all are just "sharp" knife divas. (I use that term to be nice, what I call you in my head is worse.)

What do you mean by "a proper" edge? How is GEC supposed to know your intended use for that knife? Or even a use for a specific blade on a knife? What you consider "a proper " edge I may find to be useless. This goes right back to the conversation a week or so ago about blade wrap. If it's a queen you're not going to sharpen or use it anyway. If it's a user make it want you want it to be, you know you want to sharpen it anyway. Just be a little less condescending when you tell us about it.

I mostly agree with you, but you could be a little less condescending when you tell us about it.

 

[Jiki]

I mostly agree with you, but you could be a little less condescending when you tell us about it.

 

[gaj999]

Their Rocktrac transfer case is a good one. However, their "off road" axles leave a lot to be desired and are usually the first thing modified or replaced by true off road drivers. The sway bar disconnect is another "fluff" option that is usually replaced by an expensive dual rate sway bar. Over-all it's a great package for your casual wheelers and hunting crowd. But just like knife edges, a real Jeeper will fuss over the details.

True. The hardcore is not the target market. Still, it's nice to be able to buy a stock Jeep capable of more than a trip to Safeway. We probably should be arguing about GEC's target market instead. Or not.