Lets talk GEC!

Cory Hess said:
Thanks for sharing your opinions. I personally don't care for wharncliffe blades on any knife. It's interesting to hear what aspects of the term traditional knife people hold dear. I completely respect those opinions, I just have to question them in order to gain a better understanding of why they are held in such high regard. I hope you all can understand that. I really do appreciate you taking the time to spell it out for those of us that have a hard time keeping up with the herd. ;)
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Thanks Cory :) :thumbup:
 
JustinR said:
Buy what you like. I know there are probably some folks that think I committed a sin against mankind by having a caplifter put on my 15 barlow, but it is my absolute favorite knife ever. There is room for everybody's opinion in this hobby, there is no right or wrong blade combination.
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I agree!!

Chris D. :D
 
liamstrain said:
With the cap and bail, and relatively short (for a long) bolster - I don't think I'd call this a barlow, regardless of blade configuration.
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I DEFINITELY wouldn't call it a Barlow Liam, but that bolster is over an inch long :thumbup:
 
Can't be a Barlow, it has bolsters on both ends. It also has a curved trapper-style handle. With a Washington-style bolster. Kind of. It is a Washington Fish Trapper.
 
jc57 said:
Can't be a Barlow, it has bolsters on both ends. It also has a curved trapper-style handle. With a Washington-style bolster. Kind of. It is a Washington Fish Trapper.
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LOL! :D :thumbup: I doubt anyone at the Richards factory was ever seen as innovative cutlers who were pushing the boundaries of traditional patterns! :D
 
Oh and by the by, and just to point out my own hypocrisy; the #25 Barlow with wharncliffe main has been one of my desired pocket knives for a couple of years. I know it's wrong and I know it doesn't fit, but I can't help but want one. :)
 
I rarely read this thread, but I'm glad I ended up here on a rainy Sunday afternoon! Very interesting, informative, and thought-provoking discussion on the meaning/interpretation of "traditional". :thumbup::thumbup:

Thanks for your insightful questions, Cory, and thanks, Jack, for your clear presentation of your opinions, and reasons for them.

So much for me to learn, so little time! :eek:

- GT
 
Since we are on the topic of various recent SFOs, and this thread is supposed to be about GEC, here's a topic I have pondered recently.

It seems like SFOs are becoming more and more popular with GEC. This year, there were several from forums or clubs, plus several through Charlie and Mike, and a few other dealers and individuals. It really seemed like in each of their blog entries, the "what's next" was like 3 SFOs to one general production release.

With their limited production capacity, it seems like there is a risk that all of their production schedule will get tied up with SFOs and there won't be as many "general availability" runs. Do they limit the total number of SFOs that they will accept?
 
Good discussion and very humorous heels dug into shifting sand. But I guess the first guy made some type of pocket knife and then took offense when the second guy changed it a little. Personally, I don't care if it is officially called a barlow or a letter opener; that is a title somebody gave something that looked similar a long time ago. I am nothing but a middle man, but commission what I want and bet my money that I can move a few of them. Sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong. But I don't use my trapper to trap; don't use a toothpick on my mouth; and typically just use the name that more closely resembles what people have called it in the past. I guess the muskrat and trapper with a wharncliffe added are "improved" so let's kick the fire ant pile and call it an improved barlow ;) The one name I don't like, just because it is not the way I am wired, is marlow.

Although I am not trying to build a better mouse trap; I could care less if a knife is traditional as long as it is functional and well received. Not being well received will take care of it becoming traditional. If an aspiring actress wants to become a star, she leaks a porn tape; the more an actor acts out of norm on the national stage, the more roles he is offered - so ya'll please continue to debate this one as intensely as you have thus far..... As for me, if they don't move, I won't make them again (so they are going to be a super hot collectible in a few years - nudge nudge hint hint).

The one bit of advice my kids are sick of hearing is that you only use what you can learn from others as a starting point, not as the the final word. Build from there and never blame someone before you for leading you astray. If all you know or do is what the guy before you did; what have you added? The worst thing that can happen is you show the next guy what not to do.

If the wharnie bothers some, they are going to hate the next run of barlows with a hoof pick main and tree scribe secondary.....
 
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jc57 said:
Since we are on the topic of various recent SFOs, and this thread is supposed to be about GEC, here's a topic I have pondered recently.

It seems like SFOs are becoming more and more popular with GEC. This year, there were several from forums or clubs, plus several through Charlie and Mike, and a few other dealers and individuals. It really seemed like in each of their blog entries, the "what's next" was like 3 SFOs to one general production release.

With their limited production capacity, it seems like there is a risk that all of their production schedule will get tied up with SFOs and there won't be as many "general availability" runs. Do they limit the total number of SFOs that they will accept?
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If you pay attention to most SFO's you will notice they very seldom come standalone. The ONLY reason the #77 barlow was made was because it could be ran with the bf knife, washington, and yankee jack. The GEC factory is very big into keeping overhead down by making as many knives an the same tooling as possible in order to minimize their setup costs. When Charlies barlows are ran, they have always been ran with the boys knife, etc.

But, I have had this conversation with Bill several times. Their goal is to maintain a percentage (didn't share that with me) of general production and fill in spaces with sfo's where they will fit. They do not want to be the back-end manufacturer for somebody with deep pockets. But, they are not going to turn down the no-risk/immediate full payout work just to do what they want to do and hope it sells; then have to inventory what doesn't.
 
Interesting SFO question John, and a good answer Mike :thumbup:
 
Forced a patina with a few condiments.
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Great posts Mike! :thumbup:

You always seem to have a knack for gauging what will sell, and what won't.

Now how about that #77 Beerlow! :D
 
This Barlow discussion has been a great read. What I'm wondering is why the 2009 official blade forums traditional knife was allowed to have a wharncliffe blade on it if it's such a bastardization of the Barlow pattern? I am in my infancy myself in the traditional side of things, so I am still learning, but was told by a longtime and experienced collector that Bill Howard and Charlie C are the two most knowledgable people on traditional pocket knife history that he knows (this person personally knows both of them). So, does that mean Bill is wrong for making the 25 Barlow with a Wharncliffe? I always thought the definition of a Barlow was that it had a large bolster and one or two blades, I don't remember reading anything defining what those blade shapes had to be. (again, I don't know, I am still learning) It would be interesting to be able to ask the original creator and person who named the Barlow as to what his definition of the term Barlow knife was. Since Charlie is an active member of this community and seems to be the most knowledgeable and foremost authority on Barlows, I would think he would be the best person to answer this question. Does a "Barlow" knife cease to become a "Barlow" because it has a wharncliffe blade on it? I get that everyone has there own personal tastes. I personally don't like pizza with barbecue sauce and chicken on it but I still call it a pizza, because it's much easier than calling it a round doughy thing with sauce, chicken and cheese. Like the original poster, this is NOT meant to be snarky at all. It's always hard to read into tone over a computer screen and as I said, I am just learning myself and have enjoyed the thoughtful discussion here.
 
sugarleaf said:
What I'm wondering is why the 2009 official blade forums traditional knife was allowed to have a wharncliffe blade on it if it's such a bastardization of the Barlow pattern?
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I've sometimes wondered the same! :D Not that it makes any difference, but the Wharncliffe on it is rather Sheepish! ;) My guess is it got more votes than the other choices.

sugarleaf said:
I always thought the definition of a Barlow was that it had a large bolster and one or two blades, I don't remember reading anything defining what those blade shapes had to be. (again, I don't know, I am still learning)
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See Levine's Guide To Knives & Their Values :thumbup:

Both standard and daddy barlows can have clip or spear master blades. Both can be either single-bladed, or else have a pen second blade.

Standard barlows can also have a sheepsfoot, a spey, or a "razor" master blade.
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sugarleaf said:
It would be interesting to be able to ask the original creator and person who named the Barlow as to what his definition of the term Barlow knife was.
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You'll need a time-machine (he died rather a long time ago), and someone to translate the Sheffield accent! I'm happy to volunteer for the second part ;)

sugarleaf said:
Since Charlie is an active member of this community and seems to be the most knowledgeable and foremost authority on Barlows, I would think he would be the best person to answer this question.
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He's answered it numerous times already in the Barlow thread (admittedly it is getting rather long ;) ). Hence the lack of a Charlow with a Wharncliffe blade.

sugarleaf said:
Like the original poster, this is NOT meant to be snarky at all. It's always hard to read into tone over a computer screen and as I said, I am just learning myself and have enjoyed the thoughtful discussion here.
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:thumbup:
 
I'm looking forward to the release of the 54s again. A Moose would be tempting, especially in Northfield garb.:thumbup:

To revist the Wharncliffe 'controversy' I would very much like to see a Boy's knife as Wharncliffe single, plenty of Barehead small bolstered knives have had this blade in the past, it would look right. Mike L has a valid point when he alludes to the Improved Muskrat as an analogy for the 77 Wharncliffe blade Barlow, which should now be called Wharlow...:D:rolleyes: I believe it was Tony Bose who first 'dared' put a Wharncliffe on a Trapper (good idea I'm no fan of the Spey blade on that pattern, however 'traditional' it may be!) and this has not only become accepted as 'traditional' but in many cases it is preferred to the original, especially in smaller form. Traditional is a concept itself subject to change, as all things are. It probably wasn't regarded as 'traditional' to use synthetic materials such as Cell on knife handles, stainless steel was looked on with suspicion at first and so on. Just to say that a blade has never appeared on a pattern before does not exclude it from becoming acceptable with change of habits or views - provided the knife functions properly as a knife and is liked by the knife buying public. The Queen made 2009 Forum Knife with Clip/Wharncliffe is an extremely sought after Barlow, so too the Dan Burke version and I think this may have partly influenced the introduction of the larger 77 Barlow with Wharncliffe.

Of course, I blame GEC for all this, without them we wouldn't have this opportunity to drool over knives and debate the concept of traditional:D:D:cool:
 
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