Lets talk GEC!

[Peregrin]

I think Mike hit the nail on the head when he used the term "Improved Barlow". Maybe "Modified Barlow" would be even better since then we won't argue whether it was really improved....

I've seen Wharncliffe Trapper called a Modified Trapper also.

I just looked at the 2009 Knife. Although it was called a Barlow in our discussions etc. there is no mention of Barlow on the knife or box. In 100 years no one seeing that knife and box will know that we called it a Barlow.

Great discussion! It's proof positive that we can disagree and still hold a respectful, stimulating discussion.

 

[Jack Black]

In 100 years no one seeing that knife and box will know that we called it a Barlow.

You're all forgiven then Gary!

Great discussion! It's proof positive that we can disagree and still hold a respectful, stimulating discussion.

Yes, very nice to be part of. Thanks for an interesting discussion here gents :thumbup: Even if you have kept me away from the housework!

 

[jc57]

While I would love to see this controversy die down, and let us return to the origin of the word "Lambfoot", sometimes men of good conscience must stand up for principles.

Obadiah Barlow first made the Barlow knife in Sheffield England in 1670 (as one of many theories has it). Lord Wharncliffe wasn't born until 1776 and the first knife with his famous blade design didn't appear until at least the 1820s (or later, depending on what you read). So the time difference is at least 150 years.

A Barlow with a Wharncliffe blade would be like a Colt Paterson with a laser sight on it. Not. Allowed.

FURTHERMORE, all of these people are English. Jack Black is English, and therefore is the only legitimate authority on the matter. Case closed.

 

[Tenacious D]

Thanks for the reply Jack...

See Levine's Guide To Knives & Their Values :thumbup:

So, does Levine's guide define a Barlow as not having a wharncliffe? I don't have it and would appreciate it if you could quote it for me. I was reading online at barlow-knives.com, which seems pretty comprehensive and it made no mention of it in their "what is a Barlow knife"? It simply mentions a large bolster and one or two blades.

He's answered it numerous times already in the Barlow thread (admittedly it is getting rather long ). Hence the lack of a Charlow with a Wharncliffe blade.

I haven't read through that entire thread, but I'm curious to know a yes or no answer from Charlie to the question "does a barlow knife cease to be granted the right to be called a barlow, because it has a wharncliffe blade?" Like I said, I have not read through the entire thread, but I'm guessing what you are referencing is Charlie explaining that wharncliffes have not been seen on Barlows historically and because of that, he wanted to stay true to history with his line of Barlows, so that is why TC's have not come with wharncliffes? Is that right? Or has Charlie actually made the distinction that a knife with a big bolster and a Wharncliffe is by definition NOT a Barlow.

Thanks again for reply Jack!

 

[bill boyd]

If the wharnie bothers some, they are going to hate the next run of barlows with a hoof pick main and tree scribe secondary.....[/QUOTE]

Now that's funny.

In reading all the various posts I've thought of all kinds of smart-aleck questions and comments to make but I wouldn't want someone to misunderstand them so I won't post'em. But I was vastly amused myself so I just want to say thanks to all for the last several pages of posts. I really enjoyed them.

Mike

 

[Jack Black]

Thanks for the reply Jack...

So, does Levine's guide define a Barlow as not having a wharncliffe? I don't have it and would appreciate it if you could quote it for me.

You're welcome, here's the quote again:

Both standard and daddy barlows can have clip or spear master blades. Both can be either single-bladed, or else have a pen second blade.

Standard barlows can also have a sheepsfoot, a spey, or a "razor" master blade.

I haven't read through that entire thread, but I'm curious to know a yes or no answer from Charlie to the question "does a barlow knife cease to be granted the right to be called a barlow, because it has a wharncliffe blade?"

If you're that curious, you should pursue your curiosity. Like all the threads here, the Barlow thread is searchable, as are Charlie's posts.

But in my opinion, you don't have to look far to discover that a traditional Barlow pattern does not have a Wharncliffe blade.

Jack

 

[liamstrain]

FURTHERMORE, all of these people are English. Jack Black is English, and therefore is the only legitimate authority on the matter. Case closed.

There's a fallacy for that.

 

[Jack Black]

While I would love to see this controversy die down, and let us return to the origin of the word "Lambfoot", sometimes men of good conscience must stand up for principles.

Obadiah Barlow first made the Barlow knife in Sheffield England in 1670 (as one of many theories has it). Lord Wharncliffe wasn't born until 1776 and the first knife with his famous blade design didn't appear until at least the 1820s (or later, depending on what you read). So the time difference is at least 150 years.

A Barlow with a Wharncliffe blade would be like a Colt Paterson with a laser sight on it. Not. Allowed.

FURTHERMORE, all of these people are English. Jack Black is English, and therefore is the only legitimate authority on the matter. Case closed.

Thanks John, nearly missed this! :thumbup:

There's a fallacy for that.

 

[bucksforus]

So my question is ( if a barlow was 1st made in 1600's, and the razor blade for a knife made during, or right after the civil war) does that mean that the Barlow with a razor blade a modern aproach to a modified Barlow? Just a rookie looking for answers.
Harold

 

[Lemmy Caution]

So my question is ( if a barlow was 1st made in 1600's, and the razor blade for a knife made during, or right after the civil war) does that mean that the Barlow with a razor blade a modern aproach to a modified Barlow? Just a rookie looking for answers.
Harold

When the Razor Barlow first came out after the Civil War there was a major hubbub here on Blade Forums! Fathers disowning sons! There was fear that the Traditional Knife Enthusiast Union could not stand. LOL

 

[Tenacious D]

You're welcome, here's the quote again:





If you're that curious, you should pursue your curiosity. Like all the threads here, the Barlow thread is searchable, as are Charlie's posts.

But in my opinion, you don't have to look far to discover that a traditional Barlow pattern does not have a Wharncliffe blade.

Jack

Used to, not have a wharncliffe blade. They do now and time and change stands still for no one my friend. Whether that trend continues into the future, remains to be seen, but if it doesn't, these wharncliffe knives with large bolsters (notice I didn't call it a wharncliffe Barlow? Haha) may prove to be most sought after and collectible "not-barlows" of all, because of the anamoly.

 

[Jack Black]

I guess that there have always been some anomalies in knives, aberrations that have been short-lived, but most traditional patterns have stood the test of time. The Wharncliffe blade has been around for a great many years, but apparently nobody thought to put it in a Barlow frame before. Maybe those generations of old cutlers were just too stupid to think of it. Or maybe there are other reasons...

My guess is that it will be the classics that people will value in the future, not something designed to appeal to a fleeting trend.

 

[Cory Hess]

When the Razor Barlow first came out after the Civil War there was a major hubbub here on Blade Forums! Fathers disowning sons! There was fear that the Traditional Knife Enthusiast Union could not stand. LOL

I hate to disagree with you here, but I've heard a different version. I actually heard that the one-arm razor barlow was first produced in August of 1860. Not only does the pattern predate the Civil War, but it was one of the major contributors of the war beginning in the first place. You see, the rebels loved the new one-armed razor knives, as the newly minted cotton gin was responsible for many horrific accidents that would otherwise leave the victims permanently unable to wield a genuine barlow knife. They began modifying their knives and replacing the standard blades for a razor and calling them one-armed razor barlows, or Oarlows for short. The Yankees, being big sticklers for tradition were appalled that their neighbors to the south would desecrate the barlow name by applying it to a knife that didn't strictly adhere to the acceptable blade patterns. From what I understand, some rebels snuck into Fort Sumter and were slipping one-arm knives into the supply boxes full of barlows as an April Fool's joke. They were discovered and the rest, as they say, is history.

I don't know how accurate this account is, as I made most of it up. However, as far as I know it's never been disproved.

 

[deskil]

From Levine: "Both standard and daddy barlows can have clip or spear master blades. Both can be either single-bladed, or else have a pen second blade. Standard barlows can also have a sheepsfoot, a spey, or a "razor" master blade."

The knife on the left does not seem to fit Levine's definition of a Barlow, because the second blade is not a pen and because both blades cannot be defined as master blades (one must be the second blade). Therefore, it would seem to have a non-standard blade configuration, for a traditional Barlow, somewhat similar to the 77 SFO (with a clip and a wharncliffe), that some find so objectionable.

 

[Tenacious D]

The Wharncliffe blade has been around for a great many years, but apparently nobody thought to put it in a Barlow frame before. Maybe those generations of old cutlers were just too stupid to think of it. Or maybe there are other reasons....

Yes, the wharncliffe blade has been around a long time so it's utility has stood the test of time. I am just having a hard time still, understanding why, without sound reasoning other than deferring to history why a wharncliffe blade on a knife with a large bolster, ceases to have any less utility because it's now sitting on a knife with a large bolster.

As for fleeting trend, I guess only the future has the answer to that. We could be talking about anything that was something "new" at any point in time and there were people around to cry "foul" and resist change (or maybe not, because there weren't knife forums at the time and people didn't get so personally invested on the insignificant semantics of what to call a knife and had better things to do with their time, like putting their knife to real "hard-use" other than slicing apples to get a cool patina) Just like others have pointed out, the stew blade wasn't always around, at some point it had to be put on a knife with a large bolster for the first time. Different cover materials have not always been around, but because of change we now have a wide array of knives and blade combinations and cover materials to choose from. What a boring world this would be if people who always wanted things to stay exactly the same had their way....

 

[Woodrow F Call]

IMO, a barlow is a pattern for the frame and has the long bolster.... bare on the other end. As much as I can't find the motivation to buy a wharncliffe, I will still call a barlow with a wharncliffe a barlow no matter the abomination it may or may not be. Of course, my opinion holds about as much water as Hank's bucket holds beer.
[video=youtube_share;GtuwAJTXvTU]http://youtu.be/GtuwAJTXvTU[/video]

 

[Jack Black]

Yes, the wharncliffe blade has been around a long time so it's utility has stood the test of time. I am just having a hard time still, understanding why, without sound reasoning other than deferring to history why a wharncliffe blade on a knife with a large bolster, ceases to have any less utility because it's now sitting on a knife with a large bolster.

As for fleeting trend, I guess only the future has the answer to that. We could be talking about anything that was something "new" at any point in time and there were people around to cry "foul" and resist change (or maybe not, because there weren't knife forums at the time and people didn't get so personally invested on the insignificant semantics of what to call a knife and had better things to do with their time, like putting their knife to real "hard-use" other than slicing apples to get a cool patina) Just like others have pointed out, the stew blade wasn't always around, at some point it had to be put on a knife with a large bolster for the first time. Different cover materials have not always been around, but because of change we now have a wide array of knives and blade combinations and cover materials to choose from. What a boring world this would be if people who always wanted things to stay exactly the same had their way....

What is called a 'Wharncliffe blade' here (something else which is worth reading up on) was never fitted to a hard-use knife, but the utility or otherwise of this blade pattern is not really the issue.

This is the TRADITIONAL knife forum, where the names of patterns and suchlike are not regarded as "insignificant semantics", and where we generally adhere to long-established tradition. If you find that all rather tedious, you'd probably find it more interesting elsewhere.

What changes or alterations might a Barlow have to undergo before you no longer consider it to be a Barlow I wonder, you appear to think it is an endless process of development? Would the inclusion of a spring-assist make a difference for example? How about a ceramic window-breaker? Surely, putting an end-cap on the knife is a small matter? At what point does it cease to be a Barlow and become something else, in your opinion?

I am beginning to suspect that there might be a market for an INVISIBLE Barlow! I'm sure I could get some made up, and they'd be very reasonably priced. And they'd come with whatever blades you'd like to have

 

[Woodrow F Call]

That's it. I'm going to stick a pruner blade and a cork screw on a barlow..... I'm calling it "The Gardener's Wino Barlow."

 

[paulhilborn]

That's it. I'm going to stick a pruner blade and a cork screw on a barlow..... I'm calling it "The Gardener's Wino Barlow."

Now that's funny my friend:thumbup: Hopefully not in that Kutmaster Barlow

 

[Jack Black]

That's it. I'm going to stick a pruner blade and a cork screw on a barlow..... I'm calling it "The Gardener's Wino Barlow."

Not a Maglite 'blade'?!