Lets talk Hawkbills

Discussion in 'Battle Blades with Greg Walker' started by Vermonster, May 30, 2002.

  1. satin

    satin

    Apr 6, 2001
    The Camillus CUDA hawk-bill folder looks interesting to me... I was wondering what peoples thoughts on this knife were?


    Also... Anyone ever see any large (larger than neck knife sized) fixed blade hawkbills? I'm not sure what practicality they have, but I dont really seem to recall seing a fixed blade hawkbill with a 5, or 6, even 7 inch blade... would think someone woulda made one? Or am I just not looking in the right places?
     
  2. Leo Daher

    Leo Daher

    967
    Jan 19, 1999
    Large fixed blade hawksbill, by Jerry Hossom:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. satin

    satin

    Apr 6, 2001
    oh.... there is that one... of course... duh, I totaly forgot about it. :eek: Its a sweet piece... wicked. :D
     
  4. Hawkbill

    Hawkbill

    982
    Nov 22, 1998
    I have a CUDA Claw, and the mechanism is neat. I don't care for the parkerized blade, as it seems to rust sitting in my pocket.

    Leo, THAT is a wonderful blade!!! Kind of reminds me of some fantasy knives designed by Hibben, et al.

    Brian
     
  5. Leo Daher

    Leo Daher

    967
    Jan 19, 1999
    Brian,

    Isn't it? To tell you the truth, I love all of Jerry Hossom's creations, but this one has a special place in my heart. :) Wish it was mine...
    Like you, I'm a big fan of hawksbills, particularly for defensive aplications. I always carry at least one Matriarch on me.
    BTW, do you know if I can find a picture of that Stag Queen somewhere? Don't think I've ever seen it.

    Leo
     
  6. Hawkbill

    Hawkbill

    982
    Nov 22, 1998
    Leo:
    I'll try to snap a digital pic of mine in the next couple of days.
    Brian
     
  7. Leo Daher

    Leo Daher

    967
    Jan 19, 1999
    Great, Brian! Thanks! :)
     
  8. chrismar

    chrismar

    24
    Jun 18, 2002
    On Talon/Hawk bill Shaped Edged Folders;
    I have modified my Civilian by clipping off 1/4 inch at a 45 degree angle acute to the edge which eliminates the very brittle and non-sustainable tip. I then used a wet grinder carefully and smoothly round off the ragged junction until the curve touch the first small inlet of the forward-most serration. I then use a Hunter carbide V-neck sharpener to sharpen the edge side rounding upwards towards the spine.

    The result is a very sharp rounded tip that has much more meat than the original and can easily make razor incisions into fabric and cellular material without ripping. The depth of the slice is approximately 3/32" and the first inlet after the tip is a large serration.

    There are several reasons I made the modification. 1) To eliminate the weak tip which will snap immediately if you apply lateral motion in either direction if the blade's tip has become lodged into a hard surface. 2) To increase the razor slicing or incision capability and making the blade more pragmatic for small incisions to a skin for poison bites. 3) To give more support for the forward-most area on the spine for spontaneous back handing in a reverse grip, the top is much more solid.

    Note 1. I use a wet med speed to keep the stainless from discoloring and the job is so smooth that it looks totally new.

    ON THRUSTING. Every blade has a unique inferior and a superior angle of attack. Ergonomically the arch of the semi-circle of the Civilian blade, especially after my modification is ideal for forward and reverse grip thrusting (simple angle linear stab). The major limitation for tactical combat using a talon curved edge is from the outside high or low to high thrust in a forward grip. This will result in a dangerous jab rather than a cut or insertion. As the proper hold and point entry should be horizontal and parallel to the ribs off a standing antagonist for a straight edge or dual edge knife, this curvature increases the bio-dynamic straight line and follows precisely the angle of the forearm through the wrist. It is actually a more effective stabbing angle. Similar to the ergonomics of a plier upon gripping. A straight plier is very ineffective but a plier with ergonomic gripping is much more effective to create positive work force. This is true also for the reverse grip and with the tip oval round but razor sharp, the cut is very smooth.

    Finally the serration of the Civilian may rip and tear at someone’s skin, but my first hand experience is that is will get caught in almost any material from nylon to denim, and is good for leaving an irreparable wound, but will cook your last meal as you cannot pull out when you get your blade snagged in your opponents' loosely-fitted clothing.

    Also, my thoughts on percentages; when dealing with tactical battle, you must consider multiple confrontations every moment. Therefore your psychological reserve and focus should be 49% to the coherent target and 51% to the dynamics of the spontaneous situation and its constituents. You should always apply and utilize no more and no less than 2% above the force of your opponents, as this is the only way to control your opponent during action in close quarters. Any greater amount of application of force or power will over extend your tactile sensitivity and increase your mechanical tension towards the opposite direction. Any less than 25 and you will not be able to obtain continuously greater probabilities to successfully and totally control the subject for extraction. Do not resist greater mass with angle or inferior weight bearing, you must accelerate your simultaneous counter attacking angle so that the deflection angle appears twice the rate of change to the time before impact of a greater mass. Philosophically, always use 110% of your drive because most fighters and victims never use anywhere close to the threshold of their ability, therefore act and set the mental reference to survive below the fail-safe which means they will stop performing for fear of going past the extreme threshold of experience and personal knowledge. In a fight for your freedom, you must breech the threshold of the philosophical fail-safe, using 110% of your mind-set, 2% more physiological energy than your opponent always and 51% focus and reserve of attention to the dynamic moving content in the envelope which your danger has occupied you in.

    I prefer to carry the Cold Steel Battle Axe.

    Thanks for listening and safe passage to you,


    Chief Instrustor Chris Mar
     
  9. will22

    will22

    472
    May 13, 2002
    I think one could stab with most hawkbill designs by atering the angle at witch the knife is thrusted and turning the wrist as it enters. Now hears a paticularly nasty thought think about the damage it would cause when pulled out at a regular angle. also if someone was grappling with in a kind of bear hug It would be devistating to their exposed back.
     
  10. chrismar

    chrismar

    24
    Jun 18, 2002
    Absolutely, the two main points being, the tip is going to snap at that twist if it is caugh in a rib and then the point is very jagged without penetration and second, the reaso the hawkbill finds it's stab is in the ergonomics of the curve which matches the forarm and wrist. The alteration makes a nice rounded razor sharp point, something along the lines of the Pit and the Pendulum. Easy insertion. Remember that twisting has a downside; you have clothes and possible other accessories to come in and out and in a condition with multiple attackers, you want deadly cuts. If you hit the heart and twist the hawkbill design will get stuck, behind the sternum or heavy muscle.

    control means disengagement of confrontation at will.
    over applied force will result in accidental violence which means that you will have to reapply measures due to erratic dynamics which become more unpredictable as you load up the subjects level of anxiety.
     
  11. jim_l_clifton

    jim_l_clifton

    Mar 31, 2000
    Satin,
    Fixed blade ,check out Chilian Special Forces,they carry a
    type of hawk called a CORVO!
    jim
     
  12. jim_l_clifton

    jim_l_clifton

    Mar 31, 2000
    Satin,
    Fixed blade ,check out Chilian Special Forces,they carry a
    type of hawk called a CORVO!
    jim
     
  13. jim_l_clifton

    jim_l_clifton

    Mar 31, 2000
    Satin,
    Fixed blade ,check out Chilian Special Forces,they carry a
    type of hawk called a CORVO!
    jim
     
  14. jim_l_clifton

    jim_l_clifton

    Mar 31, 2000
    Satin,
    Fixed blade ,check out Chilian Special Forces,they carry a
    type of hawk called a CORVO!
    jim
     
  15. jim_l_clifton

    jim_l_clifton

    Mar 31, 2000
    Satin,
    Fixed blade ,check out Chilian Special Forces,they carry a
    type of hawk called a CORVO!
    jim
     
  16. jim_l_clifton

    jim_l_clifton

    Mar 31, 2000
    Satin,
    Fixed blade ,check out Chilian Special Forces,they carry a
    type of hawk called a CORVO!
    jim
     
  17. jim_l_clifton

    jim_l_clifton

    Mar 31, 2000
    Satin,
    Fixed blade ,check out Chilian Special Forces,they carry a
    type of hawk called a CORVO!
    jim
     
  18. Mike990

    Mike990

    535
    Sep 25, 2000
    I like the hawkbill design. I have a couple spyderco Civi's and the Merlin, and just ordered the MOD Ladyhawk for a blade length restricted city I have to work in a lot. Also just ordered an Emerson LaGriffe. I think the hawkbill concept has a lot to offer in close. I dont carry them exclusively but they are effective in getting force behind the cut.
     
  19. satin

    satin

    Apr 6, 2001
    I'm a dunce... I totally forgot about the fixed blade hawkbills made by Szabo... :eek:

    [​IMG]
    The sickle
    Big, almost ugly, but almost pretty... I like it. I wouldnt have much use for it, but I like it, and see that you could so someone massive damage with it and some training.

    [​IMG]
    Mini UUK [Kamaitachi]
    This I do like, a lot. Smaller, wicked, looks comfortable, looks like its at an excellent blade to handle angle, looks like it would carry well IWB, and come out strong and fast in reverse grip, fromt he strong side.

    [​IMG]
    Jaws IV
    Again, I like, wicked, slim, good reach, some better stabbing capability I would think, but still a sort of hawk-bill. Looks like it would be versatile with the right sheathing/rigging.

    Wonder why I forgot these... I'm always looking at Szabo's site...:confused:
     
  20. will22

    will22

    472
    May 13, 2002
    I didn't mean twist I meant sort of sliding the blade in while changing the angle to match the insertion. I hope that helps it's a very hard motion to describe in words. I also beleve that the battle sickle would cause MAJOR damage. It seems that it would create a stab wound the same way the back of a vietnam tomahawk would. Is the back of the blade sharpened? If so it could be used for slashing too. The little hook would be kind of like another little hawkbill for the backslash.
     

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