Light, slim Bowie knives

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I have a comment on those stacked leather KaBar knives, if anyone is still interested. The steel isn't great, DIN 1.4116 with a Rockwell hardness of 55-57, but they are priced accordingly, very inexpensive. The build quality is excellent and the handles are attractive. Although the knives are made in Taiwan, the sheathes are made in Mexico and completely overbuilt for the price range.

Overall, Thumbs-Up and an absolute bargain. :thumbup:
 
Sorry I can't spell his last name but I asked this question of him in his ask tooj thread in the Kabar forum
 
1.4116 has only .5 of Carbon and 14.5 of Chromium, plus a little Moly and Vanadium, making it much more like 420HC than 440C.
It's not even up to the alloy of 440A.
 
Din.1.4116 is the German version of of 440c according to Paul T the senior engineer at Kabar

Don't know if I believe that. This stuff is much softer than 440c.

The spec I found online for these DIN 1.4116 knives is 55-57rc, while modern heat treating takes 440C to 57-59rc or even 60rc.
 
Din.1.4116 is the German version of of 440c according to Paul T the senior engineer at Kabar

Not even close.

1.4116 only has about 1/2 the carbon content of 440C, and less chromium as well. Carbon is what makes knife steel hardenable by heat-treat, so it has the biggest impact on performance of any knife steel.

1.4125 is much closer to 440C in makeup, with 0.9-1.25% carbon, 16-18% chromium; these are the similar characteristic influences in 440C and 1.4125.

Compare the above to the 0.50% carbon and 14.5% chromium in 1.4116; this makeup more closely mimics 420HC.

In the case of 440C or 1.4125, their abundance of carbon + chromium also adds much more wear-resistance in chromium carbides formed. There's not enough of either element in 1.4116 to be significant, in that regard. If you've ever tried to sharpen Buck's 440C on Arkansas stones, the difference in sharpening ease seen between it and the 420HC equivalent steel (1.4116) would be huge; well-treated 440C just laughs at Arkansas stones.

Sorry I can't spell his last name but I asked this question of him in his ask tooj thread in the Kabar forum

Think I found where you asked that question; see link to his reply below. He referenced another poster in that thread, who speculated 1.4116 was similar to 440A (closer, but still not quite there; 420HC is more closely-matched). 440A and 420HC will seem generally similar to most users, most of the time, in terms of how they sharpen up and perform; 440A will still have some advantage built-in, with still-higher carbon (edge-holding) and higher chromium (corrosion resistance).

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/872443-KA-BAR-Tech-Talk?p=12554161#post12554161


David
 
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IT SEEMS TO ME, a 6" knife like the buck 119 Special is not really a "Bowie" knife yet. Mine is from about 1967 if memory serves and it is just a bit short to be a "Bowie" IMNHO. The BUCK Bowies start at the 120 GENERAL and the 124 FRONTIERSMAN it surely does seem to me and the 120 in particular is light and sleek as can be with a really superbly shaped clip blade. The 124 is noticably heavier and it's handle is just a tiny bit too square in my hands, but still, one fine long blade knife that gets it's job done in fine style. ALL of 'em are great American made knives.

Well. let it be bowiesque then. Like Miss Bowie :D Anyway the Special is in the size range I wanted. I happen to have the Cold Steel Trail master (the black bladed version) and I must say that I dont like it very much. I plan to do something entirely different about it, like stripping the blade and re-hafting it when I have time.
 
Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I have a specific question. Above knarfeng mentioned that Buck hardens their steel a notch higher than Ka-bar (talking about stainless steels).

I have seen and handled some bowies made by Linder. I believe most of them are made of 440A. To my knowledge this steel is not inferior, but does not take as sharp an edge and does not hold an edge as well as example Buck. Am I right? I ask this question because I have become particular about making my edges as sharp as I can and experiment with sharpening. Linder Kentucky is made of 440C so it should hold an edge better. Should I steer clear of knives made of lover grade 440 steels?

I will go ahead with getting a decent, not too large bowie style knife sometime soon and need this information.

I hate to echo an oft misused phrase, but truly, in this case, a lot depends on the heat treatment.

It is possible to heat treat 440A to 58-59. Phil Gibbs, formerly designer for Camillus and currently for AG Russell told me that Camillus used to do so.

That being said, a traditional hardness for pocket knife blades is 54-56HRC, and a lot of companies still do that with 440A and 420HC. This leads to their current commonly held status as a steel which is not desirable for the blade of a "quality" knife.

The difference in performance between 440A hardened to 54-56 vs 58-59 is quite noticeable. The problem is that a lot of times you do not know to what final hardness a blade has been heat treated prior to purchasing it.

Neither 420HC, 440A, 12C27, nor AUS6 have any carbides to speak of. 440B and AUS8 contain enough carbon that they have some fine carbides. 440C definitely has carbides.

Carbides are like aggregate in concrete. You start with a fine edge, and as the steel wears away, the carbides are exposed. You then have an edge which is not as fine, but which will keep cutting because the carbides, which are harder than the steel, keep cutting. A blade made from steel that does not have carbides will maintain a fine edge longer than a blade made from steel containing carbides, but will wear to the point where it stops cutting altogether faster than the carbide containing blade.

Carbides provide abrasion resistance. If you are going to be push cutting with a blade, carbides don't help as much as if you are draw cutting. ("push cutting" is pushing the blade straight into the material without drawing it across the surface, which will also define for you what "draw cutting" is.) For push cutting, hardness is the key to edge retention. For draw cutting, abrasion resistance is the key to edge retention, especially if you are cutting abrasive materials such as rope, fur, or cardboard.

So there is not a single answer to the question. It depends on how hard the steel was heat treated and it depends on what you are intending to cut with the knife.
 
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So there is not a single answer to the question. It depends on how hard the steel was heat treated and it depends on what you are intending to cut with the knife.

And you did not make the choise any easier :D But thank's for the information. Buck is still a strong contender.

Seems though that for economical reasons I might have to wait a bit longer. I have been looking at a certain fixed blade knife for some time (not trad) and by chance I drove by a knife shop I have been to many times, so I decided to drop in. Behold, there was this knife with a nice price tag. So I bought it. Started driving home.

And had my picture taken by a speed camera. I had just missed it when the speed limit changed. I know there is a policy against swearing, so fill in the blanks as you please :D

XXXX XXXX and so on.
 
Decided to go another way and do it myself, kind of. I happen to have a Ka-bar short heavy bowie. Not exactly slim. but I like the blade. I have made a comparison between Ka-bar and CS Trailmaster and I must say that I prefer the Ka-bar. Much better cutter than CS.

Problem is the rather horrible handle on the Ka-bar. I took the handle off. I plan to make a simple, mild steel guard and a coffin style handle. Also I used paint stripper and sandpaper to take off the coating. Since the blade is carbon steel it lends itself to forcing a patina with vinegar.

This will take some time, but I am determined to go through with this project. Since I allready started I have no choise :D

The sheath is also on the to-do - list. I plan to use the original sheath as a liner and cover it with leather. I have in mind to do a Southern Comfort - style sheath with no belt loop.
 
Not as pretty IMO but the better knife. Sharpens easier, much tougher steel, and much more confidence inspiring: http://www.knifecenter.com/item/BU0065BKSBH/Buck-065-BuckHood-Punk-Fixed-Blade-Black-Micarta-Handle-Nylon-MOLLE-Compatible-Sheath

Excellent knife for the money. Less corrosion resistance in that 5160 is an alloy steel, not stainless.

Svord Von Tempsky Ranger ( smaller 6 inch version of the 11 inch knife, convex ground , very tough L6 steel. Very nice but more expensive: http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/SVOVTR/svord-vtr-von-tempsky-ranger-knife-6-78-carbon-steel-blade-wood-handles-leather-sheath

Koster Bushmaster in 3V. Yet more expensive but worth every penny! http://www.knivesshipfree.com/dan-koster-knives-bushmaster-knife-cpm-3v-black-canvas-micarta/

A.G.Russell always has some nice bowies: http://www.agrussell.com/knives-straight-bowie/c/20091/

There are several Scagels I could get along with. http://www.knivesshipfree.com/scagel/?sort=alphaasc
 
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This will take some time, but I am determined to go through with this project. Since I allready started I have no choise :D

The sheath is also on the to-do - list. I plan to use the original sheath as a liner and cover it with leather. I have in mind to do a Southern Comfort - style sheath with no belt loop.


Go for it!
:D
 
This turned out strange. I decided to go with a guardless design after all. I did not have any particularly nice wood, so I did the wood core / glue and cord - stuff again. The grip is very positive, comfortable but it does not slip. Still needs some finishing. I have not started with the sheath yet.

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Looks interesting and like it would provide a good grip. What kind of glue did you use?
 
The glue is a slow two part epoxy. I put on rubber gloves and rubbed the glue in the cord with my fingers the best I could. When the glue had dried the cord was like wood, it could be sanded easily. The annoying wisp's came right off with sandpaper.

I also gave the blade a bath in vinegar. The picture does not show it very well, but after I buffed it lightly with steel wool it has now a light grey color.
 
Interesting. Thanks for the details.
 
I started the same process with the old black-bladed Trailmaster. I stripped the paint off, still need to sandpaper the blade and guard clean. I just might do the handle same way, use wood as a core and cover it with cord. The grip is so good. And I don't have to do anything to the sheath of the CS. One thing though, I might reprofile the edge. Wish me luck...

Edit: still none of these are very light and slim, so the search for my perfect light, 6-7 inch blade bowie is still on. Would prefer something along traditional lines and prefer a symmetrical handguard. That is one of the things I dont like in the Buck 119, allthough the blade shape is nice. And I would, after much thought, prefer flat grind.
 
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perfect light, 6-7 inch blade bowie...along traditional lines...symmetrical handguard...flat grind.

My usual recommendations: Blackjack ($150) or Randall ($450) 1-7 fits all of those criteria I believe.
 
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