Liner Lock vs Lock Back

[orthogonal1]

The back on many lockbacks will ride up at the interface with the blade when exposed to larger forces in the opening direction.

 

[shangchi108]

I prefer a back lock, but ultimately, it's about what works for you. If you like a liner lock, then so be it.

The nice thing about Spyderco is they seem to make a knife for everyone. If all they made were liner locks (like some companies) then I'd have to look elsewhere for my folding knife needs, but ,thankfully, that's not the case.

 

[wongKI]

I prefer lockbacks, but I own more liner locks.

Still hunting that Manix...if the Gayle Bradley came in a lockback that would be awesome!

 

[ZippoThisKnifeThat]

Like some have already said here you don't have to close a lock back with two hands, it can easily be done with one hand but takes a step or two more than a Liner or Frame lock. I like both locks and right now really enjoying both my Sage and Sage 2 X]

 

[forcedestrike]

I buy liner locks and RIL's exclusively and only own 1 backlock/mid lock (Caly 3 ZDP).

For me its a combination of factors;

1) Open construction = Easier to clean, you can just rinse your knife through.

2) Lack of back spacers or all that hardware means liner locks tend to be lighter.

3) tough enough to withstand anything you would with a folding knife and alot of things you wouldnt .

4) super easy to close 1 handed, very intuitive.

5) due to the open construction if something is worn or damaged I can see it, visually checking how the liner engages the tang every once in a while will be able to warn you of potential future problems. Hard to do with a lockback.

At the end of the day all locks mechanisms from quality makers are safe and reliable thus the lock shouldnt be the motivating factor when purchasing a knife, rather look at the design and features and rest assured that if Spyderco releases a locking knife it WILL lock regardless of the lock design.

 

[chipped]

They should both be fine if the company is fine and you don't abuse it. Watch youtube for how to manipulate a backlock in different ways one-handed.

I usually just put my index finger toward the front of the handle, depress the lock with the side of my thumb, flick my wrist so the ricasso hits my index finger, and then reposition and use either my thumb or index to close with the hole.

If you're that worried, buy an Izula.

Some people prefer lockbacks because they are ambidextrous.

 

[SteelSnob]

Framelock First, Lockback Second and Linerlock Third. If made by Spyderco they're all probably good.

 

[The Deacon]

I'm having a hard time trying to understand why a locking mechanism would fail under normal use, be it linerlock or lockback. I'm not being a smart aleck, just really trying to understand. I often carried a slip joint and blade lock has never been an issue. Granted, a locking blade is safer, it's common sense. Everything else being the same, I prefer a locking blade than not. But I never regarded the locking mechanism as being a problem (air quotes). Aesthetically, they can change the look of a knife and that has been my only criterion to pick one over the other.

I guess my point is that I'm looking for more information and enlightenment.

Depends on what you consider normal use. Lifting and twisting when trying to free a blade stuck in wood, cardboard, etc. can induce lock failure. Striking something with the spine while chopping in a confined space can cause a lock to fail. Stabbing, for example to start a cut in heavy cardboard or chip ice, can cause lock failure.

I'll say it again... As long as you don't cut with the spine, a liner lock isn't going to fail you. Honestly, I can see something in a lockback breaking before the stop pin in a liner lock does (when pushing against the edge.)

I disagree, the situations I noted above do not involve trying to cut with the spine. All of them can, and have, caused locks to fail. While one can argue that a well made liner lock is safer than a poorly made lockback, all things being equal the lockback will be less prone to failure. I would also disagree with your premise regarding the relative ability of a stop pin and a lock bar to withstand the forces transmitted to them in normal cutting.

I buy liner locks and RIL's exclusively and only own 1 backlock/mid lock (Caly 3 ZDP).

For me its a combination of factors;

1) Open construction = Easier to clean, you can just rinse your knife through.

2) Lack of back spacers or all that hardware means liner locks tend to be lighter.

3) Tough enough to withstand anything you would with a folding knife and a lot of things you wouldnt .

4) super easy to close 1 handed, very intuitive.

5) due to the open construction if something is worn or damaged I can see it, visually checking how the liner engages the tang every once in a while will be able to warn you of potential future problems. Hard to do with a lockback.

At the end of the day all locks mechanisms from quality makers are safe and reliable thus the lock shouldnt be the motivating factor when purchasing a knife, rather look at the design and features and rest assured that if Spyderco releases a locking knife it WILL lock regardless of the lock design.

Interesting, I choose midlocks because:

1) Closed construction = less chance for gunk to get in.

2) Solid back means midlocks will be more rigid.

3) Tough enough to withstand anything I'd do with a folding knife and a lot of things I wouldn't.

4) Very easy to close one handed.

5) Far less subject to wearing out than liner locks. Most common "point of failure" is breakage of the lock spring, which occurs when opening or closing the knife, not while it's being used. Excessive vertical play will warn sensible users to retire the knife.

6) Equally easy to open and close with either hand.

7) More opening resistance = less chance of being labeled a gravity knife.

I also stick with midlocks for consistency. I know I do not have the mental flexibility I once had, so carrying knives which all work the same way gives me one less thing to have to think about.

Paul

My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

 

[coop1957]

I find it hard to believe that people can't close a lockback one handed.
Tip of the index finger in Spydie hole, thumb releases the lock and close. Simple.

 

[forcedestrike]

Different strokes for different people . Its a true testament to our passion that we will debate a style of lock endlessly when 99% of "normal" people really couldn't care less!

As long as Sal keeps pumping out lots of new models that suit both our tastes I am happy.

Interesting, I choose midlocks because:

1) Closed construction = less chance for gunk to get in.

2) Solid back means midlocks will be more rigid.

3) Tough enough to withstand anything I'd do with a folding knife and a lot of things I wouldn't.

4) Very easy to close one handed.

5) Far less subject to wearing out than liner locks. Most common "point of failure" is breakage of the lock spring, which occurs when opening or closing the knife, not while it's being used. Excessive vertical play will warn sensible users to retire the knife.

6) Equally easy to open and close with either hand.

7) More opening resistance = less chance of being labeled a gravity knife.

I also stick with midlocks for consistency. I know I do not have the mental flexibility I once had, so carrying knives which all work the same way gives me one less thing to have to think about.

Paul

My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

 

[The Deacon]

Different strokes for different people . Its a true testament to our passion that we will debate a style of lock endlessly when 99% of "normal" people really couldn't care less!

As long as Sal keeps pumping out lots of new models that suit both our tastes I am happy.

+1 on that. Glad you understood the point of my post. :thumbup:

No "bad" choices here, just that one (lock, clip position, handle material, grind, blade length, edge type, etc.) may be "better" for you and another "better" for me.

Paul

My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

 

[Uncle Timbo]

+1 on that. Glad you understood the point of my post. :thumbup:

No "bad" choices here, just that one (lock, clip position, handle material, grind, blade length, edge type, etc.) may be "better" for you and another "better" for me.

Paul

My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

I could not of put it better myself. I'm 54 years old and the old fingers aren't as flexible as they used to be. (heck, nothing is for that matter!)
Also, if I'm at work trying to close a lock back with one finger in the hole then I'm sticking that blade out there for all the sheeples to see and possibly freak out. For me, the liner lock is faster. I do a 2 step. I close the blade against my thumbnail and then close her up completely after that.
For me, personally, I'll never own a lockback unless it was given to me. Even then I can't see it getting more use than my Sage I. (I love this knife)

 

[stoffi]

I also close my lockbacks by putting the spine on my hip or leg. It's really fast. I do like how liner locks don't tend to wiggle the blade as much as with lockbacks. I don't know which one is stronger and I really don't trust any of them, because they CAN fold on you and it has happened to me with a lockback. I never use folders like fixed blades anyway. They're folders.

 

[chuck buck]

i prefer closed retention of the mid lock, however i like the generally open back construction that a liner lock offers. that said, all in all, i personally find mid locks more appealing .

 

[unit]

....I don't know which one is stronger and I really don't trust any of them, because they CAN fold on you and it has happened to me with a lockback. I never use folders like fixed blades anyway. They're folders.

I find this statement to be on the money. It is really easy to envision ANY lock failing on any knife I have ever seen that folds. A bit of debris in the wrong place at the wrong time and a bit of hard use, and viola! (knives with secondary locks (that take many seconds to manually engage) may be an exception)

Remember that we are talking about hard use situations, and having some crap pack into the cutout in a lockback pivot prior to deployment is a very real possibility Testing this lock under clean indoor conditions is really sort of a false (best case) scenario. Liner locks, frame locks, you name it, if they fold...they CAN fold.

Users should always take a bit of caution in this area. If you believe your knife can not fail, you may end up sorely mistaken.

I really do not believe that there is a clear winner in the area of locks, and that is why many varieties are offered. Use what you like, and take care of it. We all have preferences, and thank God for that!...Otherwise we would all have the exact same knife and this place would suck for wasting time on boring days.

 

[The Deacon]

I could not of put it better myself. I'm 54 years old and the old fingers aren't as flexible as they used to be. (heck, nothing is for that matter!)
Also, if I'm at work trying to close a lock back with one finger in the hole then I'm sticking that blade out there for all the sheeples to see and possibly freak out. For me, the liner lock is faster. I do a 2 step. I close the blade against my thumbnail and then close her up completely after that.
For me, personally, I'll never own a lockback unless it was given to me. Even then I can't see it getting more use than my Sage I. (I love this knife)

I'm 64 and the only things more flexible than they use to be are things I wish were not.

As for closing a midlock, FWIW, I've never done it the way you described. My normal method is to hold the knife pointing down at about a 45º angle, and depress the lock bar with my thumb. If the blade does not drop far enough to unlock by itself, either from gravity or a slight shake, I press on the thumb ramp or spine with my index finger to coax it down. After that, I rotate the knife in my hand so the edge is facing up and close the blade the rest of the way with my thumb against the spine.

Paul

My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

 

[Uncle Timbo]

We all have preferences, and thank God for that!...Otherwise we would all have the exact same knife and this place would suck for wasting time on boring days.[/QUOTE]

And how dull would that be?

 

[forcedestrike]

Spyderco should switch locking system to a titanium based ring lock system with a .25 thick pivot and reinforced rim.

Debate solved.

 

[The Deacon]

Spyderco should switch locking system to a titanium based ring lock system with a .25 thick pivot and reinforced rim.

Debate solved.

Think you've missed the mark there. What "everybody" wants is a lock that:

1. allows the knife to flick open like a gravity knife
   
2. turns it into a virtual fixed blade when open - zero play, zero chance of failure
   
3. impossible to close accidentally, no matter how absurdly unrealistic the hand position
   
4. easy and totall safe to close one handed intentionally, preferably using only a single motion

Your suggestion, at best, only satisfies two of those criteria.

Paul

My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

 

[forcedestrike]

Think you've missed the mark there. What "everybody" wants is a lock that:

1. allows the knife to flick open like a gravity knife
   
2. turns it into a virtual fixed blade when open - zero play, zero chance of failure
   
3. impossible to close accidentally, no matter how absurdly unrealistic the hand position
   
4. easy and totall safe to close one handed intentionally, preferably using only a single motion

Your suggestion, at best, only satisfies two of those criteria.

Paul

My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

okok, a spring assisted blade with a tab on the ring to rotate it around one handed.

:thumbup:

And damn, now I feel like edc'ing an opie. :/