liner- locks????

W

weety

Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
41
So….. after browsing around the forum I have noticed that many have expressed concern with liner locks on folders. I’m wondering what issues people have had and how to possibly to avoid them. When and how have they failed you in the past??

Thanks,

Weety
 
they never failed me. i have an emerson w steel liner, and a microtech w titanium liner and they both seem very robust
 
I've never had a liner lock to fail on me although I've tried some to see if they would unlock with moderate hand pressure, applied to the spine of the blade, and had some to unlock........those I simply passed by. I think it is all a matter of fit on this subject. I currently have only one linerlock, a Strider AR, but the liner is so thick (.100") that it is more like a framelock on lockup. Never had a problem with it and have done some hard spinewhacking to test it. I used to think that a thick liner meant a secure lock but that is not always the case as I've had a few knives with a thin (.050") liner that never had a problem. Again, the fit of the liner to the lock face of the blade is the most important fitting. I have a Pat Crawford full sized Wortac on layaway and Pat has checked the lock to know that it is very tight and very secure, as he has the angle of fit pretty much down pat! First time I ever saw/heard of a liner lock I thought it was the ultimate in locks, but as time has passed and more and more knives have been built on this platform it is only natural that more and more failures will crop up. Anyway, my $.02 on the subject!
 
I have had a few in my shop from forum members where the locks defeated by simple spine pressure or light taps on a board or table top. Of course I've seen some lockbacks that have done this and some axis locks, some ball bearing locks and frame locks too for that matter. It can happen to any of them for various reasons. This by itself doesn't mean all are faulty or bad locks.

Personally when I buy any folder the first the thing I do is check to see how the lock holds up to spine pressure. I normally open the blade and then move my fingers out of the path the blade would take in the event that it closes but still grasp the handle firmly and then push hard on the spine of the blade putting more force on the tip section than in the middle or back. If that holds up I may or may not tap it lightly on the spine, again keeping my fingers out of the way in the event that the blade closes.

Generally a lock back that fails this test cannot be easily fixed. A liner or frame lock can be adjusted many times to allow the lock to move in farther in the interface where it contacts creating more support and contact. Many times this is all that is needed. Generally you have to take the knife apart to retension the lock and or adjust the contact to do this.

When I first came here I thought liner locks walked on water so to speak. I've made them for years and have many good ones to this day that have never given me any problems. But some brilliant testers discovered an inherent flaw in these that can make the lock fail by lateral torque and simple wrist flex if the blade gets jammed. Reports have come in claiming lock defeats while cutting cardboard.

Frame locks are considered the better way to go for this integral style of lock and the reason being that your grip is such that it is actually in contact with the lock while using the knife, thus preventing the lock from moving out to disengage from the blade. Some very smart makers have started making their liner locking folders differently since these reports of failures. While many still argue, and even get heated up about these tests the fact is there is a lot of credibility to the results that are easily repeated. I myself originally was angry at these findings but in the end had to conclude that the results are real.

See pic for a Terzuola folder which is a liner lock, with the frame lock advantage so your hand is in contact with the lock when using the knife.
Note the cut out in the G10 scale. You might also note that this is a left handed knife. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=59733&d=1157575519

You might also be interested in reading more at this link too.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=422248
STR
 
I had a Timberline. The pistol grip model. I could press on the spine with my thumb and the lock would disengage.
 
I have EDC'd the same liner lock BM for about 8yrs now. Never a problem.

Only issue I can see after 8 years is some wear on the back of the blade where the liner lock engages the blade. At the beginning it engaged early, and as time has moved on it engaged farther and farther due to wear. It now engages the blade in the last 85% I would say.

At this rate I would say in the next 3 yrs, It wont engage anymore.
 
I am not denying that liner locks are more prone to failing then lock back, axis ect. However I'd say lock failure (despite quality control issues ect) *usually* have a lot more to do with manufacturer. I used to EDC a Lone Wolf Harsey T2 on and off for 2 years and has never disengaged or failed me including spine whacks. I've had some gerbers like the air ranger pass aswell, but many failed. If I could design my own knife the lock woud not be a liner lock but, it definately doesn't stop me from a buying one from a reputable company or maker.
 
I have 3 liner-lockers, 2 Spyderco Military and a Buck/Strider Tarani.

Never a problem. I trust those locks as much as my SMF and Manix.
 
Hey Guys...

I've only seen or had problems with cheap knives and liner locks...
I haven't had a problem yet with a quality liner lock folder...

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
I'm very disappointed in a $40 Field n Stream made by CRKT. 7 mo. and the blade rattles! I have a Microflame torch but i never got on with it. I tried to make a stainless steel braze with a $60 torch. I tried to put a braze on top the lock but couldn't make it stick with a good sanding or rough file and plenty of flux. I put it back together without the washers and now the frame doesn't go over all the way. I will eventally pour liquid lead in it and it will be "fixed".

I wont get another liner lock unless... I will purchase a frame lock because it is beefy enough. All the other locks seem to be ok (some with minor modifications).
 
The problem with liner locks is that the juncture between the the liner and the blade tang is critical and must be just right or the lock will fail. On all but the more expensive production models, read Spyderco or Benchmade as the expensive ones, that juncture is, at best, hit or miss. When I forst bought a couple of liner locks, they were from lesser companies and neither of the locks worked properly. It was not until I bought a Spyderco C15 Terzuola Clipit that the light dawned, and that is a pretty primitive version of Spyderco's liner lock. When I got my StarMate, I saw how it really should be done and I have no problems with them.
 
I'm sure liner locks are for the most part, fine. Something about the flexing of the locking piece, it just feels cheap to me. I much prefer the sturdiness and precision of a lockback. That being said, I'm (slowly)starting work on my first lockback folder and I think it's safe to say that it's going to be a long time before I have one I'm really confident in as a EDC. It's all a matter of personal preference and quality of materials and craftmanship.
 
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Same debate, different day.
How about this: let's limit the anecdotal rhetoric to those individuals who have actually experienced the lock failures they mention. Replies regarding or based on hunches, intuitive guesses, "feelings," etc. don't help us, they just muddy the water.

That being said, I've never had a liner lock fail, and I've used and tested a lot of them. The only lock that I've ever had fail is on my old, beat-to-hell Buck 112. Doesn't withstand light to moderate spine-whacks. Even so, the knife still works fine. It's never actually failed in use, just during testing.

As is fashionable to say: just my two cents.
 
I just received a kershaw cyclone with a liner lock. Unfortunately a moderate spine whack disengages the lock. It is very frustrating to buy a knife and then have a problem and have to send it back and pay for shipping and be without the knife.

Since it is new I will use it awhile and see if use will allow the liner to engage more and become more secure. I'm sure under normal use I will never have a problem. But it is a fairly large folder (the biggest I have had to date) and if the occasion presents itself to use it hard I don't want to be worrying about cutting my fingers off.

Other than that I really like the knife. I just need to get a torx small enough to turn the clip around so it is tip up carry.

The only other lock failure that I can remember was on my first knife when I was about 9. It was a little case folder with FRN scales and was a lockback. I was pushing the point into a piece of wood and it decided to close. Luckily it wasnt very sharp and the blade hit my finger nail before my finger so I didn't get cut too bad.

Ryan
 
Observation: I've experienced numerous LL failures, all on knives with SS liners. The Ti liners just seem stickier and I haven't had any slip.
 
I have two knives, a Kershaw Boa (assisted) and a Buck Tarani 887. Both will fail moderate spinewhacks. The Boa first failed when cutting cardboard - the reciprocation walked the liner out of engagement and allowed the knife to close slightly on the pull stroke. Later I was able to duplicate it by rocking the knife in my hands to walk the liner out. I attempted a repair by roughing up the engagement ramp on the blade, but no go. It still does it.

The Buck is a replacement for one I sent in. It will unlock with moderate spinewhacks. The first would fail with just a light tap on a leather covered steering wheel or by hand. It fails because the effectively short liner travels in a quick arc; the engagement ramp is steep and pressure on the blade simply pushes it out of the way. Under strong hand pressure you can actually see the thin liner flex, which rocks the liner engagement.

Liner locks and frame locks are virtually the same in function; however, framelocks must have thicker material, and the lock is long and bent at the base of the cutout, not thin and curved in the middle. The resulting stiffness of the lock contributes to its integrity - cheapening it in a liner lock affects the maker's reputation.
 
My Hossom Retribution II appears to be holding up great thus far. Liner locks on these are masive.
 
I've had one liner-lock that would consistantly fail a light spin-whack (a CRKT Mirage).
And I've had other liner-locks that would travel completely across the tang when flicked open hard (some frame-locks too), making them difficult to unlock.
And liner-locks seem to wear out faster than most other locks in my opinion.

Having said that...
A nice liner-lock is a real thing of beauty.
And properly made they can be extremely strong and safe.
I think it's just one of those locks that you must keep an eye on and test/check it every so often.

Cheers,
Allen.
 
The actual experience being reported tends to confirm my suspicion that the less expensive knives probably should not have liner locks since the proper manufacture is so important to the proper function and since liner locks do not tolerate much in the way of sloppiness.
 
puukkoman said:
How about this: let's limit the anecdotal rhetoric to those individuals who have actually experienced the lock failures they mention. Replies regarding or based on hunches, intuitive guesses, "feelings," etc. don't help us, they just muddy the water.
Click to expand...

I thought I did that preemptively in my initial post -repetition doesn't hurt - But agreed!!

So far thanks for all the feedback! Anyone else?


Weety
 
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