Linerless slip joints

rickmenefee said:
I have had makers tell me they have a harder time making shadow pattern because you have to make the bushings for the outside of the knife handles.
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Durwood said:
A great point, Rick. I've had two makers turn down a shadow order for that very reason and had others "acquire" their bushings from other sources.
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I went to not using bushings for micarta and G10 since it isn't really necessary for those materials. I performed a destruction test to make sure too. http://knives.mutantdiscovery.com/destruction.html

Since then I found out a neat way to make the bushings. It works really well. http://hackaday.com/2010/02/26/drilling-perfectly-centered-holes/ Nobody has an excuse anymore after reading that article.

Alistair
 
While the bushing may not be "needed" on the front on those materials (G-10, micarta etc) the simple pinned front is what some of us find unappealing about linerless slipjoints. And now we're back on topic:D
 
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im sure theyre is enough bearing surface when a knife is pinned together without a bushing :however, They look like hell. The material cost in a linerless, linered and bolstured knive amout to about 2.00 dollars, Its the time it takes to put everything together and finish the knife. I can put a shadow pattern and a bolstered knife together in the same amount of time. Finishing the knife is a different story.
 
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The difference for my knives with a bolstered frame is about $100, this for the cost of the 410 or 416 my time milling it (integral), fitting the scales and assembly. to say that it takes the same amount of time on either knife simply isn't true- at least not for me and if you use more or less of anything in materials the time should be in porportion to those materials. Type of material can matter. For most lifetimes any linerless folder with modern plastics should hold up. I myself prefer liners but to say that one is better than the other is back to the Pepsi, Dr Pepper thing. Weight or no the only reason for the frame is to protect the blades or us. Aesthetics?
Ken.
 
Thanks for your response Rick:thumbup: I guess you makers need to raise the price of bolstered knives;):eek::D

Seriously, I think the love of variety along with the practicality of shadow patterns fuels the willingness of some buyers to pay proportionately more for shadows than they should cost when compared to knives from makers who estimate that bolstered models take up to 1/3 longer to finish. What I'm saying (in a shorter sentence) is that I don't consistently see anywhere near a 1/3 price difference being reflected on a shadow vs bolstered knife of similar design.

Again, this is my opinion, and it is based on my impressions and observations, not necessarily facts:o
 
Durwood said:
Thanks for your response Rick:thumbup: I guess you makers need to raise the price of bolstered knives;):eek::D

Seriously, I think the love of variety along with the practicality of shadow patterns fuels the willingness of some buyers to pay proportionately more for shadows than they should cost when compared to knives from makers who estimate that bolstered models take up to 1/3 longer to finish. What I'm saying (in a shorter sentence) is that I don't consistently see anywhere near a 1/3 price difference being reflected on a shadow vs bolstered knife of similar design.

Again, this is my opinion, and it is based on my impressions and observations, not necessarily facts:o
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This is getting a bit off topic but I completely agree with that. I would have to take a big pay cut if I wanted to become a full time maker. You MIGHT be able to end up making a living off it once you have established a name for yourself but until then you would be eating beans and noodles for a long time. I don't know how you full time makers can do it.

Alistair
 
Man, I got into it with those boys in the survivalist thread a while back. The discuss turned to "ultra light" hiking and camping. Man those guys bickered back and forth in every which way possible to shed 3 ounces off their total pack weight. Their words got vicious. The bare minimum survivalists asked why you need a pack anyway...all you need is a wool blanket and a knife. The military respected the survivalist but cussed the ultralighter for making it into a "girly game" and not about survival. The ultralighters cussed the survivalists and military saying that they do this as a sport, and not survival...its easier for them to pack 20 miles carrying 20 lbs than it is to pack 20 miles carring 40 lbs. Everyone had a valid point and made good arguments...albeit many of them in a nasty way to one another. The moral of my story....well I'm getting to it. I told all those jokers to go to hell and if they ever wanted to play nice and have a thought provoking (not heated) discussion, come over to the old man's forum and talk about slippies with us. Now I see what I was talking about. Here we are with various viewpoints on something we love....how do we resolve our disagreements over here? With Respect and Deference. And the moral of the story, for both this forum and the suvivalist form is just this....if it works for you, you like it and it gets the particular job done for you....then guess what....it's just the right knife for you....liners or not. And if you are a ultra lighter and it gets you where to need to go quicker, it works for you. If you are a survivalist and want to live off the land and of the woods, then you way works for you. And if you are military and need to carry a 60 lbs pack to keep you alive, then I damn sure hope it works for you. Today, my linerless Ray Laconico did a dandy job batonning some wood. The day before, my Kerry Hampton Lanny's Clip did a dandy job whittling a stick and opening boxes. And this weekend, unless I change my mind for some reason, my new Ken Erickson 5 Blade is going to do a dandy job getting stuck in trees. And you know, each knife worked, and will work, great for its intended purpose. Cheers, now find me sleepin pill and help get this dang coffee out of my system :) :) :)
 
Lest anyone get me wrong, all this talk about linerless has got me wanting one:o Actually, I already did I'm just wanting a large one. Campbell, post a pic of that Laconico once it has some color on the blade, that's what I'm Jonsin' for:D
 
Durwood said:
Lest anyone get me wrong, all this talk about linerless has got me wanting one:o Actually, I already did I'm just wanting a large one. Campbell, post a pic of that Laconico once it has some color on the blade, that's what I'm Jonsin' for:D
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Funny....even though I started this thread leaning to the negative side about linerless slip joints....I find myself a bit curious as well. :)
 
cnas122 said:
Today, my linerless Ray Laconico did a dandy job batonning some wood. The day before, my Kerry Hampton Lanny's Clip did a dandy job whittling a stick and opening boxes. And this weekend, unless I change my mind for some reason, my new Ken Erickson 5 Blade is going to do a dandy job getting stuck in trees. And you know, each knife worked, and will work, great for its intended purpose.
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I was wondering who got that, enjoy! :thumbup:
 
Great discussion being had in this thread :thumbup:, except from CNastyAss, who is great to party with at Blade when he ain't droppin trou and watching how high his new knives will bounce off the pit floor. :p

Seriously good thread and I appreciate everyones input.

So Jason, are you going to get past curious and warm up to linerless? The linerless slip joint is kind of a hybrid traditional/modern approach in knife construction due to the great materials we have available to us in this day and age. Maybe it's going to become a new tradition but as long as there is stag and bone and ivory and stone, there will be liners. It's all good. :D
 
KnifeHead said:
So Jason, are you going to get past curious and warm up to linerless? The linerless slip joint is kind of a hybrid traditional/modern approach in knife construction due to the great materials we have available to us in this day and age. Maybe it's going to become a new tradition but as long as there is stag and bone and ivory and stone, there will be liners. It's all good. :D
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I don't know....good question. Let's just say I'm more open to the idea than I was when starting this thread. :)

I'm still not seeing any real advantage to linerless for myself. The weight difference doesn't matter to me and the cost savings seem slight. It is just another consideration for me....if I saw one I liked and the price was right I wouldn't hesitate to jump on it.
 
I really like the ones I've seen from Ray Laconico. I like the way he stamps his name on the top edge of the blade...very cool. I think a linerless slip joint would be a great knife to carry and use. Lightweight, thin and sturdy seem like a good combination in a folding knife. I'm plotting on one now.
 
morrowj_98 said:
I'm having a hard time warming up to linerless slip joints. They look cheap to me. My opinion is based on aesthetics only...not functionality or durability. I have no doubt these knives will cut great and are capable of being built plenty strong to survive years of use.

I guess I'm being stubborn but when I think of a custom or handmade slip joint....it has to have liners.
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I have just received two of Rays knives - a large and a smaller one and they exceed my expectations in every aspect. Not only concering functionality. There was no doubt about that anyway.
The original question was about aesthetics. To me they have a very clean and pure look and feel. Definitely nothing "cheap". It is more like a very modern touch as they are "reduced to the max".

I like them very much, but every day is a little different, so every day I put a different knife with a different style into my pocket. And enjoy it :)


Peter
 
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