Linerlocks - Which ones you trust or don't trust

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May 23, 2004
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In a thread a few days ago I mentioned the only linerlock that I have ever heard 100% positive feedback on was the Spyderco Military and that none of the ones my buddies used overseas were rock solid besides when brand new. It made me really wonder if other people are seeing/hearing the same.

I'm curious to see your thoughts and experiences on different linerlock knives - which ones do you trust or not trust? The ones that you trust have you put them through any certain tests or long-term use?

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On a side note, would you say a linerlock is ever a selling point for you and you see them as having certain advantages over Axis, Compression, or Tri-Ad locks...or do you feel linerlocks are mainly used for cost/ease of design and manufacture and more so ignore it in favor of the price and other design features?
 
It all depends how realistic ones expectations are of a folding knife. Using a tool with common sense and not necessarily pushing it to the extreme, most locks will be more than adequate.
 
My personal philosophy is any man who trusts a lock is a fool. Folding knives fold, that's why they call them folders. Locks allow you to develop bad habits in your knife use that will result in more severe injuries when the lock finally fails to protect you from your unsafe use.

I've never had a lock fail in use, even the cheapest, poorly fitted linerlocks stamped out in third world countries. I've had some backlocks that wouldn't hold the blade open against the pull of gravity, yet they never failed in use, because I treat every folder as a non-locking folding knife.

Liner locks have gotten a bad reputation because they can be stamped out on the cheap and they will still work, more or less. That makes them popular for the cheap knives the market is flooded with. It also means there are a lot more poorly made linerlocks in the hands of people who have no clue how to use a knife safely than any other type lock, so a lot more liner locks fail. To do one right, as Spyderco does on the Military, requires precision engineering and machining, and is not a cost-cutting measure. In the case of the Military, it was a weight-cutting measure.
 
... Using a tool with common sense and not necessarily pushing it to the extreme, most locks will be more than adequate.

... I've had some backlocks that wouldn't hold the blade open against the pull of gravity, yet they never failed in use, because I treat every folder as a non-locking folding knife.

That pretty much sums it up. On a quality knife, after the blade stays open, I can take it from there. A crappy linerlock will usually be in a crappy knife that I won't even think of owning, let alone using.
 
Mantis knives, need I say more? One of there knives is the reason I have a scar on my index finger. Obviously their knives cannot even handle a bottle cut...

Get an Emerson, rock solid.

Kaleb
 
I'm happy with liner locks from pretty much any major/well-regarded manufacturer. If I had to name favorites, I'd go with the ones on Emersons and Spydercos, with Kershaws not far behind. (I don't own any liner lock ZTs, which is why I just mentioned Kershaw. But if I did, I'm sure they'd be up there as well.)
 
For yablanowitz and gooeytek - So how do people know which are the crappy ones? Is it the price only? I saw a couple different CRKT linerlocks that were $50-70 bite people in Iraq from lockbar wear and slightly loosening up caused by lots of daily use. Would you trust a Spyderco Tenacious even though it is about half the price?

If you are out in the field and you notice your knife has developed a tiny bit of play, would you feel as comfortable to continue the day with a $60-80 linerlock as you would with an Axis lock and believe they have an equal chance at disengaging?
 
I agree with yablanowitz ( I hope I pronounced that right ;) ). My recent development of admiration for slipjoints has re-affirmed what he said. I have noticed since using them that using locking folders irresponsibly WILL ingrain bad habits into you. Once, if ever, that lock fails you are in for trouble. Locks, period, are not something to trust.

Side note: Lock-backs are rumored to be among the strongest locks. I posted once about about a SOG Twitch II whose lock failed on me. Did I trust it? Yes. Did it's failure in my time of trusting result in injury? Da*n near.
 
Oh no - it is not the selling point. Though I am not particularly concerned with lock failing. I subscribe to the same point of view as yablanovitz - I do not have a habit of stabbing anything with a knife, and with a folder in particular.
What I do not like - it is a blade play. Once upon a time my new Al Mar SERE came with a liner lock all over the place... So it may happen even with a quality manufacturer - which probably indicates a general design issue.
 
I trust the liner on my Spyderco Gayle Bradley. It's so thick and strong that they had to machine a cutout in it like they do on framelocks. As for the others, I don't test my linerlocks to the limit and I've never had problems with them that way. I have a Böker Gemini with a linerlock that seems pretty sketchy compared to others, but I don't see if failing unless the pivot was so loose that it didn't lock up. The only linerlocks I've handled that I have no faith in are the cheap "Master" brand ones at Big 5. I asked to try one out once because the price sticker was covering the logo in a way that made it look like a Benchmade. As soon as I felt it I knew it was a crappy knife.
 
I've read a few reports of Military lock problems.

As for "trusting" a liner-lock, I don't, and if by trust, you mean to stab, or put force against the spine, I don't think you should trust them either.

I bought a Koltzi liner-lock back in the 90s. -Very nice design, but I realized I could defeat the lock by holding it in both hands and applying pressure on the spine. I still had other liner-locks and still thought they were great even after that, -however, my only "test" they needed to pass for me was the same as I put that Koltzi (I'm pretty sure I'm spelling that name wrong)through.

Anyhow, come several years later I had a Microtech Amphibian. -Great design. One day I threw it at a stack of folded up cardboard boxes and when the blade stuck in the knife folded. Hmmmm. My first thought was the new Socom Elite I had just got, they had equaly thick locks, but surely the Socom was trust worthy. -That was a really great design. I had considered that Socom unstopable. -Of course, I hadn't done much with it, but the lock was so thick, and it cost so much, it had to be trustworthy.
Well, after seeing the Amphibian fold on cardboard, I spine-whacked that Socom on a carpeted wooden cat house, and it closed right up. I didn't beat it hard, I tapped it. Repeated with the same results multiple times. Hmmmmm. Maybe it's just the deisgn Microtech uses, I still hadn't given up faith in these locks yet. -Neither MT had any hint of play, FYI.

Found myself with one of those Buck/Strider folders, the cheaper SNG type. Cool design, used it pretty hard and the blade devoloped lots of play. I knew the lock wouldn't hold, and it didn't stand up to hand pressure.

So, of course I've had my fair share of Emersons. Most were babied, honestly, but I had a user CQC-10. -Great design. Well used, no play, gave it a spine whack one day (on my knee) and it closed. I got pissed and threw it at a wood fence and, of course, it closed again.

At this point, I had developed a lack of faith in these locks. -But then ZT came around. Wow, the ZT 0200. Monster knife, "the liners are thicker than some frame-locks" they'd say. So I was fooled into giving one a try. Used it pretty lightly. A little bit of a pocket-full, but still a great design. Don't recall what made me want to give this one a whack, but I did. -Take a guess what happened... it closed.

Now, I have seen some liner-locks pass a spine whack, both personally, and in videos. That tells me that these locks are totally unpredictable. Thankfully, you at least can't predict they're sure to close everytime.

Some will say, a "well fitted" liner-lock is as good as anything else. Some will say if it's from a dependible company, they'll make a good lock. Some will say as long as it's thick enough, it'll hold. Some will say, if you're using the knife properly "with the edge", locks don't matter. Some will say, get a fixed blade. Some will say these knives didn't fail during use, so what's the big deal? And some will probably say 1) I've been untruthful in this post, or 2) I abused these knives to the point of failure. None of any of these excuses matter. Not to me.

To me the only liner-lock that you can trust is one that you don't ever test in any way. I truly consider a liner-lock no different than a slip-joint. I'll stick with the slip-joints, and if I want a knife that I may need to put trust in, you can bet it wont be a liner-lock. Maybe someday I won't care about my knife locks, and I'll give a liner-lock a try again. I have an interest in owning an EKI Karambit, but other than that, it's probably not gonna happen.

FYI, I've tested saveral other locks no differently than these listed here and never had one fail. Since I have moved on from these locks, I've come to realize that some folding knives can be used in ways that would be dangerous to do with a LL. Liner-locks are outdated, lots of people just don't want to except it. There are several other locks that can be trusted these days.
I've also had a few LLs that would crunch and move during tight gripping. Maybe that makes the lock actually work, but I'd say it's not a design feature.

As they say, YMMV. But don't go thinkin you've got something in your pocket that you don't.

Just remembered an Al MAr Sere 2000 I had. I stabbed a phone book and it went from solid lock-up to having play instantly. Don't know what can/should be taken from that, but thought I'd add it. -Looking back, I'm greatful it didn't cut me.

Considering how many liner-locks are marketed as "hard-use", ect., I assume the only reason more people haven't been hurt trusting/using them is becuase they don't really use them hard, even though they've sold as such. -You may think that I just don't know how to use a knife proprely though. You might even be right. Saw a guy the other day bashing the Axis lock and I thought he must be high, stupid, or very confused. -Maybe that's the case here, now, with me. -But, at least I know I'm not high.
 
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It's got nothing to do with price, and everything to do with quality. Quality can be found in quite a few lower-priced knives, and lacking in some expensive ones. I try to pay attention to the materials used, fit and finish of the assembly. Blade play is definitely a factor in determining whether a knife is safe to use, and some tasks don't factor in the strength of a lock at all. Draw cuts for example, largely rely on blade geometry and (in a folder) strength of the pivot and bladestop.

Higonokami knives and straight razors employ no lock, not even friction. If you know how to use them as intended and undertand their limitations, there's little to nothing you need do to improve them.
 
Siggy, last year when I told a buddy I trust a lot that I might give a 0200 a try, he also told me of a couple of 0200's that he tried and said both would fail relatively babied spine-whacks.

That's one big reason I started this thread - I don't think the price and marketing is going to tell people what is a reliable linerlock. The ones I've seen suck were not obvious cheap crap and were usually marketed as tough, tactical knives.
 
So, not being a mechanical engineer, can someone explain to me how a linerlock fails while "whacking the spine"? Does the liner flex and then slip off the blade? Thanks!
 
Yeah, I know I'm missing out on a lot of great designed knives too. I want a CQC-13 bad. Almost like I'm cutting off my nose to spite my face. I "could" just buy one and not trust the lock/use it hard/only cut with it. But that seems crazy to me. Damn overseas knives costing $30-60 with a similar design that "will not close unless you press the lock". IDK.

ONO724, I've only got a GED, but it's my assumption that they "slip", perhaps after minor flex, or not...?
 
I've put my crkt m16 through alot of abuse and countless really hard spine whacks, I'm sure it can be batoned with. This is with auto-lawks though.
 
Testing a knife lock by spine whacking is a seriously flawed testing method that for some reason has been adopted by many in the knife community... It simply has no bearing in reality. And it happens to defeat many liner locks that are otherwise dependable simply because of the physics of the flawed tests and how these locks work.

I am of the same opinion as other posters that you should use it like it has no lock. But at the same point I do believe a well made liner lock can be trustworthy.
 
The only lock I've had fail on my was my Tanto Blur. I was using it in a way I definitely shouldn't have and it closed on my hand, leaving me with a few stitches and a fair patch of skin that still doesn't have any feeling. After that I couldn't really trust it anymore, so I sold it.

I've started moving away from liner locks, not because I think they're unreliable, but because I've taken a liking to lock mechanisms that don't require the user to place their hands in the path of the blade to disengage the lock. The only framelock I still have is my Leek, and the only liner lock I still have is my Cyclone (neither of which have given me any cause to doubt their reliability).

I don't really have an opinion about whether or not liner locks are inherently better or worse than the next leading lock. Like I said, I've only had one lock fail on me during actual use, so that's not exactly a diverse test group. Most of the time, I don't even need a locking mechanism in the first place - the vast majority of the work I do with my knives can be done with a slip joint so long as I follow some poop-simple knife safety. If I'm not doing something retarded with my knives like stabbing, prying, batonning, or throwing them, the lock won't even come into play in the first place.

I will add that I have seen many videos of Axis lock, Frame lock, Ball Bearing lock, Lockback, and other kinds of locks fail spine whacks and other common lock strength tests miserably - this doesn't necessarily mean that the aforementioned locks are inherently dangerous or unreliable. Therefore when I hear some folks argue that liner locks are inherently bad and all the evidence they can produce is some variation of "I batonned my Kershaw Zing through a 2x4 and it folded, what a piece of junk if you use this knife you'll end up cutting your fingers off" or some such statement, I take it with a heavy grain of salt.
 
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Testing a knife lock by spine whacking is a seriously flawed testing method that for some reason has been adopted by many in the knife community... It simply has no bearing in reality. And it happens to defeat many liner locks that are otherwise dependable simply because of the physics of the flawed tests and how these locks work.

I am of the same opinion as other posters that you should use it like it has no lock. But at the same point I do believe a well made liner lock can be trustworthy.

Ok but then why does the 50$ Crkt M16-14sf shake off spine whacks like it's nothing but yet people have had problems with there 200$ liner lock folders? Why are they defeated by this test and it is not?
 
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