List locks based on strength

My experience from 8 years as a soldier and 20+ years as an avid adventurer carrying folders for many uses:
1) Button or Plunge lock
2) Axis lock.
3) Frame lock.
4) Liner lock (Yes, I said Liner lock. A well made liner blocks the closing of the blade instead of pulling as in a leverlock or lockback).
5) lockback (leverlock).

Opinions will vary and depending on usage you'll see many answers to this on going question. Finding a folder that suits your purposes and "feels just right", no matter what type of lock, can't be beat.
 
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balisongs are def the strongest folding knives. but alot of places theyre regulated..

ill be the bad guy here and say i dont like the axis for rugged/outdoor use. those little springs... they break.... i use my griptillian as a ferro rod striker and a screwdriver, i will never purchase another axis lock knife.

frame locks followed closely by back locks are imho the best locking mechanisms. a proper frame lock made of Ti and a good lock back like the spydie manix will serve you well. also if you want to pry and baton with knife get a fixed blade
 
SPXTrader said:
Stud lock
Hawk lock
Frame lock
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Stud lock, really? Doesn't the entire thing depend on a tiny little coil spring and a small little indent onto the blade?

I've never owned one, so I'll have to take your word for it, but my impression was that the stud locks don't have a whole lot of 'meat' to them.
 
elkins45 said:
Stud lock, really? Doesn't the entire thing depend on a tiny little coil spring and a small little indent onto the blade?

I've never owned one, so I'll have to take your word for it, but my impression was that the stud locks don't have a whole lot of 'meat' to them.
Click to expand...

The stud lock rests on a shelf made into the knife frame or liners, and is the only lock in production that is forward of the pivot. From a leverage standpoint, this is the strongest place to put a lock. The spring is there to act as a release for the stud.

Here's a discussion on the lock, and a little insight on the designer's thoughts.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5517660#post5517660
 
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Juramentado said:
if you had to list down the most sturdy and trustworthy type of locking mechanism for a folding knife, 1 being the one you would have more trust on not failing and 5 being on the low end of the list, how would you list them?

I'm just talking about the theoretical strength of the lock design, not considering any brand preference or the steel used in the lock.
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the most sturdy
the most trustworthy

You need to differentiate between the terms.

There is "reliability". A lock that will not fail with light pressure.
There is "sturdy" A lock that will not flat out break when extreme force is applied to it.

Trustworthy
A well made liner lock is quite reliable. It may or not be as strong as a well made lockback. Strength will depend on the individual design which will control mating surfaces and material thicknesses.

Liner locks get a bad name because they are often used on poorly made cheap knives.

I have never had a lock fail on me. I know that others have. I do not think you can generalize and say one style is inherently stronger than another. It depends on the design and execution of that particular lock.

I believe the correct comparison is "locks on cheap knives are less reliable than those on well made knives." So the caveat becomes, "Do not buy Cheap knives", rather than, "Don't buy "x-style locks".

Strong
That also depends on the individual design. I have seen some liner locks that have thicker locking mechanisms than some framelocks. I have to admit that I am more interested in "reliability" than "strength". I cannot think of many situations that would flat out break a lock.


 
elkins45 said:
Here we go, with my reasoning:

1. Compression lock--the stop pin or lock bar must break for it to fail.
2. Frame lock-- the harder you squeeze the knife the more force that keeps the locking bar in place. Minimal parts to fail.
3. Axis/ball lock--like a compression lock except there is a spring (coil or omega) that must hold the locking piece in place.
4. Lock back-- depends on the fitting of the lock bar and the strength of the spring.
5. Liner lock-- quality of fitting is everything. A poorly fitted liner lock can be made to fail very easily.
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I agree 100%:thumbup:The compression lock is underestimated.The piller or
stop pin has to fail,or it has to rip out the liner and scales.That would take a huge amount of force.Take a look at the superhawk, with cf scales and beefy liners it looks damn near fail safe to me.:D
 
Another +1 for Elkins. I would rate the Ball slightly higher than the Axis simply because the coil springs are more durable than the Omega springs, as well as a steel ball being theoretically stronger than a bar.
 
SPXTrader said:
The stud lock rests on a shelf made into the knife frame or liners, and is the only lock in production that is forward of the pivot. From a leverage standpoint, this is the strongest place to put a lock. The spring is there to act as a release for the stud.

Here's a discussion on the lock, and a little insight on the designer's thoughts.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5517660#post5517660
Click to expand...


Cold Steel's Ultra lock is placed in front of the pivot I think.

I would rate the Ultra Lock as being stronger than the Axis cause when the Axis is used more the bar wears towards the pivot (hence reducing lever arm distance) and the Ultra's move away from the pivot after use.

The Ultra lock is actually stronger in in the direction of opening instead of closing cause the lock bar and the stop pin is resisting instead of only the stop pin. Like the rukus, the only thing resisting opening forces (cutting force) is the very thin stop pin (which i think is good enough but thin nonetheless).

The Hawk lock has only one shearing face instead of two for axis and Ultra so it's weaker IMO.

I am unsure about the stud lock but I am uneasy about the thin steel resisting closing forces but it's good enough for every day use I think.

Lastly the Tri-Ad lock and the Ram lock from Cold Steel is very very strong. In the Tri-ad lock, the forces is transmitted to two pins (one is the stop pin and the other is the lockbar pivot) and is very stong. The Ram lock is also very very stong and failure IMO is going to be the shearing of the pivot. Imagine the potential of a Ram lock knife with a large pivot!

The Ultimate lock is IMHO the double lock of the Extrema Ratio Rao! Too much steel to shear. Check it out. :)
 
Cotherion said:
I would rate the Ultra Lock as beng stronger than the Axis cause when the Axis is used more the bar wears towards the pivot (hence reducing lever arm distance) and the Ultra's move away from the pivot after use.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you want a lock bar to be closer to the pivot to minimize the leverage of forces applied to the blade :confused:
 
thanks for all the replies guys

My main concern is if a folding knife made by any of the well regarded manufacturers (Kershaw, Spyderco, Benchmade...Cold Steel?) will close when the blade is driven straight into a target with about 200 pounds behind it. I'm considering this from a SD point of view. I know this may seem a little extreme to consider, but the last thing I want to happen is for a folding knife to close on my fingers in a SD situation, and I know of someone who's had that happen to him.
 
Juramentado said:
thanks for all the replies guys

My main concern is if a folding knife made by any of the well regarded manufacturers (Kershaw, Spyderco, Benchmade...Cold Steel?) will close when the blade is driven straight into a target with about 200 pounds behind it. I'm considering this from a SD point of view. I know this may seem a little extreme to consider, but the last thing I want to happen is for a folding knife to close on my fingers in a SD situation, and I know of someone who's had that happen to him.
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We would all love to know what knife your friend was using that closed up on him.

Back when I was younger and stupider, I put on a kevlar glove, took a Benchmade CQC 7 (a liner lock, BTW) and repeatedly drove it into a wooden barn door at maximum force just to see what happened. What happened was that I left some small marks in the barn door...and that's all.

If you actually have to stab someone most of the force will be on the same plane as the blade, not opposed to it. My biggest fear of a knife closing up in a SD situation would be if the opponent had a club or something like that and it collided with the back of the blade.

I think Rat F. gave good advice---don't buy a POS brand. For peace of mind, you could always buy two of the same model and try really hard to break one.
 
Mostly good points so far.

There's a distinction between a reliable lock and a strong lock.

Locks vary in both qualities depending on each individual knife and the quality of the knife, in addition to the actual particular implementation of the lock.

That said, you can definitely observe trends in reliability (at least. It seems like well made lock's strength in general so exceeds anyone's demands that force alone is rarely the deciding factor in lock failure).

Balisong
Axis and axis clones
Compression lock
Framelock/Linerlock (yes, people will argue that they're importantly distinct, but really, the position of the pocket clip generally makes the alleged strength advantages of the framelock negligible)
Lockback

I'm still not sure where the studlock fits in, and the hawklock seems like it would be directly comparable to the axis lock.
 
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