List of counterfeiters?

For some reason was thinking so but quickly checked a number of them and only company I found that is questionable is Stedemon and only found them on 2 vendors.
 
As I said, trying to separate chaff from wheat. Start with the serious offenders then try to untangle this messy web, avoiding harm to legit companies making their own designs. I'll give you an example.

After reading positive reviews about the CH3504, I got one and was positively impressed. As far as I know CH makes their own knives. The fit, finish and action on the 3504 was quite similar to a Kizer Vanguard Intrepid, a knife that goes more than double the price of the 3504. Then, another CH got my eye, labeled as the 3507. Reluctant to shell out 100+ for a knife from a rather unknown company and avoiding the shady sites, some digging revealed the same knife with a Kubey label. From what I've seen, Kubey is slapped on several Shirogorov and ZT clones. Also, the 3504 is sold somewhere else labeled as Komoran. So...if CH makes their own knives, but have deals with clone companies allowing them to put their brand on their product, what can be done? should they be lumped with the clone/counterfeit companies? this is quite confusing when it comes to trying out new products from legit companies.
 
To me, it seems the answer is to know the legit companies rather than the crappy ones.
 
zuluninja said:
As I said, trying to separate chaff from wheat. Start with the serious offenders then try to untangle this messy web, avoiding harm to legit companies making their own designs. I'll give you an example.

After reading positive reviews about the CH3504, I got one and was positively impressed. As far as I know CH makes their own knives. The fit, finish and action on the 3504 was quite similar to a Kizer Vanguard Intrepid, a knife that goes more than double the price of the 3504. Then, another CH got my eye, labeled as the 3507. Reluctant to shell out 100+ for a knife from a rather unknown company and avoiding the shady sites, some digging revealed the same knife with a Kubey label. From what I've seen, Kubey is slapped on several Shirogorov and ZT clones. Also, the 3504 is sold somewhere else labeled as Komoran. So...if CH makes their own knives, but have deals with clone companies allowing them to put their brand on their product, what can be done? should they be lumped with the clone/counterfeit companies? this is quite confusing when it comes to trying out new products from legit companies.
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Ch has copied design language. They also worked for Kizer prior. They copied the millet torrent design language and also cloned the zieba ms2. They have also made copies for other name brands.
Also the first knife they made with the skull on it was not a clone but an idea taken from the one Kizer made.
They made a model that's similar to a we knives knife.
They also sold a knife as d2 steel and it was really 8cr13mov .. But they did resolve that issue for that one customer.

All signs say avoid.
 
Counterfeits are really lame and clearly protected by trademarks. You want a list? Most of the big names have some actual counterfeits with the real manufacturer’s name crudely marked.

Clones, I know there are many opinions on these. My personal opinion is that cloning knives is just how knife designs propagate. There are lots of skilled makers making great renditions of classic knife patterns. But now we have the technology to copy a great knife design in a matter of weeks. It’s strange, there seems to be a “too soon” aspect to design copying. Nobody cries foul when they see a Bowie pattern knife but the latest Spyderco or ZT obviously it ruffles feathers.
 
zhyla said:
Clones, I know there are many opinions on these. My personal opinion is that cloning knives is just how knife designs propagate. There are lots of skilled makers making great renditions of classic knife patterns. But now we have the technology to copy a great knife design in a matter of weeks. It’s strange, there seems to be a “too soon” aspect to design copying. Nobody cries foul when they see a Bowie pattern knife but the latest Spyderco or ZT obviously it ruffles feathers.
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I had my car "propagated" once.

So about the Bowie pattern "clones", whose IP was being "propogated" with those? James Black?
 
I make fixed blade knives of my own design. I take cues from stuff I like and create something that is a combination of ideas, personal sense of aesthetics and what I believe is something that could be used for the purpose it was created for. Who knows when, I might try my hand making a folder, which will require a different set of skills and a lot of work. I would need to sit down and calculate pivot position, hardware location, materials, basically what goes where in a manner that makes the blade come out from a handle, lock in position and cut, without it falling apart after a couple of uses; it won't be an easy thing to do, and will require a lot of time, money and effort.

If 10 years from now I have a folder that works and it gets cloned, I would be pissed because whoever is doing it just bought one of my knives and blueprinted a copy with minimal effort that negates all of my hard work to make a quick buck.
 
zuluninja said:
I make fixed blade knives of my own design. I take cues from stuff I like and create something that is a combination of ideas, personal sense of aesthetics and what I believe is something that could be used for the purpose it was created for. Who knows when, I might try my hand making a folder, which will require a different set of skills and a lot of work. I would need to sit down and calculate pivot position, hardware location, materials, basically what goes where in a manner that makes the blade come out from a handle, lock in position and cut, without it falling apart after a couple of uses; it won't be an easy thing to do, and will require a lot of time, money and effort.

If 10 years from now I have a folder that works and it gets cloned, I would be pissed because whoever is doing it just bought one of my knives and blueprinted a copy with minimal effort that negates all of my hard work to make a quick buck.
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And that is exactly why this community is against clones.
 
So I guess that we, as a community, have to do something about it. I don't go to the sites known for spreading them, but I do have amazon prime and the place is crawling with them. While I can pick out some of them, others are not so readily identifiable.
 
I have found this is one niche market Amazon fails to compete in price wise at least competitively enough to secure my business.
 
zuluninja said:
So I guess that we, as a community, have to do something about it. I don't go to the sites known for spreading them, but I do have amazon prime and the place is crawling with them. While I can pick out some of them, others are not so readily identifiable.
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So use our supporting retailers.

Boom.

Problem solved.

Its what I do.
 
craytab said:
Not generally the dealers that support this forum. Few and far between actually.
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There was that whole factor iconic selling a clone of the giant mouse on reputable websites. Most of them took the item down due to complaints.

To the OP one of the biggest things in determining clones is the price. It is pretty rare to see a grea deal on a new knife. If you found a 300$ knife for 125$ being advertised as new then it is almost certainly a clone. Avoid sellers who use words like “wholesale.” There is no company selling wholesale ZTs and Chris Reeves.
 
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Lapedog said:
There was that whole factor iconic selling a clone of the giant mouse on reputable websites. Most of them took the item down due to complaints.

To the OP one of the biggest things in determining clones is the price. It is pretty rare to see a grea deal on a new knife. If you found a 300$ knife for 125$ being advertised as new then it is almost certainly a clone. Avoid sellers who use words like “wholesale.” There is no company selling wholesale ZTs and Chris Reeves.
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I don't know what you are talking about. Links? Then again I don't go for that type knife anyway...
 
craytab said:
I don't know what you are talking about. Links? Then again I don't go for that type knife anyway...
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An American company calling themselves Factor Equipment or something had commissioned a chinese factory to produce this knife, which they called the Iconic in both full Ti and CF front scales versions. It was being sold on reputable sites like Blade HQ, Knife Center etc.

MD-36461_20170308115925_6a36d5713b948033.jpg


Jesper Vox and many others complained that it was a clone of I believe the Giant Mouse 1. Here are the two knives side by side.
CBJZ5sJ.jpg
 
I do use BF supporting retailers. I also like to "find" new stuff that might not be available from them. I guess I do have to watch more closely what legit companies are making, but there are new companies offering new, original products too. For example, I collect Spanish knives, and a lot of brands are not offered by supporting retailers, but I have found some of them on amazon, which leaves me the 2 options of buying straight from Spain at a lower price but longer wait, or them, with a faster shipping. Browsing inevitably leads to suggestions, and then a knife that catches my eye might be an original - or not. Lesson is being learned, but it would be great to ID this scum.
 
marcinek said:
I had my car "propagated" once.

So about the Bowie pattern "clones", whose IP was being "propogated" with those? James Black?
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Everything got designed by somebody. Successful designs are cloned and iterated. Nothing — even patented features — belongs to anyone forever, it is all public domain in the end.

That may not mesh well with our enthusiast/fanclub personalities, but it’s the truth. And if the maker doesn’t like it, I don’t know what to tell them. You just don’t permanently own the design.
 
Isn't the Kershaw Natrix a clone of sorts. I can't remember the story of the fued between them and Microtech. I support both companies though.
 
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