List of manufactrers - makers who test their knives.

nozh2002

nozh2002

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Testing is critical part of R&D and even if knife production is copied from some one else or use "industry standard" process - it is still quite important to control quality, what is something happen during heat treatment process etc. So Testing is very important for QA as well.

It is known that Buck and Spyderco uses CATRA machine to test edge quality and research new edge (edge 2000 by Buck) or steels (Spyderco is known to bring new steel to the market.

It will be nice as well to know how they do QA - random test from 100 blades, 1000 blades, each heat treated bunch?

What is other manufacturer - knife makers stories? How does they test edge retention if they do?

Let me start The List (in alphabetical order):

Buck - CATRA machine
Spyderco - CATRA machine

Any other?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Spyderco also runs salt spray corrosion testing
 
nozh2002 said:
Let me start The List (in alphabetical order):

Buck - CATRA machine
Spyderco - CATRA machine

Any other?

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

Yeah, All of them. Unless you have proof they don't test there products your just blowing smoke. This thread is very close to what alot would call trolling. Just because a company does not answer everything you want to know doesn't mean they don't do it. For some reason you think everyone needs to answer your questions. You have no right to know how someone runs their business. So, I'll ask you a question. What company doesn't do testing of there products?
 
I have read multiple times that Spyderco has a lock breaking machine. Not sure if it's a machine or not or what it really is. I've heard it called "the lock breaker" and I've read that they have broken their own brands as well as others for their own studying.
 
David Lowry said:
I have read multiple times that Spyderco has a lock breaking machine. Not sure if it's a machine or not or what it really is. I've heard it called "the lock breaker" and I've read that they have broken their own brands as well as others for their own studying.
Click to expand...

Yeah Spyderco has invested several million dollars in knife testing equipment.
 
db said:
Yeah, All of them. Unless you have proof they don't test there products your just blowing smoke. This thread is very close to what alot would call trolling. Just because a company does not answer everything you want to know doesn't mean they don't do it. For some reason you think everyone needs to answer your questions. You have no right to know how someone runs their business. So, I'll ask you a question. What company doesn't do testing of there products?
Click to expand...

He's talking about using CATRA machines, salt-spray tests, etc. All companies may test to insure that the knife doesn't break easily, but I doubt they do edge retention tests. The more I study metallurgy, the more I realize how embarassingly suboptimal manufacterer heat treats are, often I wonder if most of these companies even do edge retention tests.

I'll add another one:

Benchmade: Lock-strength testing
 
Just because you don't know about what tests are run from a company and they don't make knives built to your specs doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing. Sal himself has said that they have done testing for other companies and he will not tell who or what the results are. So there you are some companies don't want everyone to know everything about how they run their business. I'm guesssing that being a e-net smart ass knowitall will even get you less info.
 
db said:
Just because you don't know about what tests are run from a company and they don't make knives built to your specs doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing. Sal himself has said that they have done testing for other companies and he will not tell who or what the results are. So there you are some companies don't want everyone to know everything about how they run their business. I'm guesssing that being a e-net smart ass knowitall will even get you less info.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
What incentive do knife companies have to do wear resistance testing? Most manufacterers are not after maximum edge retention or the ability to hold a thin edge, but ease of sharpening and heat treat. You think that these companies would continue to pump out 56 rc knives if the CATRA tests showed that harder steels and acute angles cut longer? They continue to use the high temper for S30V when the low temper scores better in the salt spray test?

You guys are giving manufacterers too much credit. The reality is that we don't know all the tests that are performed, if performed at all. Can't assume they don't test, but can't assume they do, either.
 
To be fair, we do have photographic evidence of some of Spyderco's testing. :p

Spyderland09.jpg


Looks like a Terzoula in this machine from CATRA:
http://www.catra.org/pages/products/kniveslevel1/slt.htm

And from the same page:

The following are some of the companies/organisations have the CATRA cutting test machine within their facilities

USA
Dexter Russel, World Kitchen, Buck Knives, Spyderco, W R Case, Cutco/Alcas, Canada Cutlery, Leatherman, Bettcher and 2 in un- named plants

Italy
Fiskars Montana, Metallurgical materials laboratory in Maniago

Germany
FGW, J A Henckels

Spain
Madrid University, Arcos

Portugal
CATIM, ICEL

Switzerland
Victrinox/Wenger

UK
Amefa, Stanley Tools

Japan
Master Cutlery ( Global Knives)

France
Goutebarge
Click to expand...
 
So list (in alphabetical order) will be now (for knives we are talking about here):

Buck - CATRA
Case - CATRA
Leatherman - CATRA
Spiyderco - CATRA
Victrinox/Wenger - CATRA

Thanks, Vassili.
 
If some company does not disclose how they do test (if they do) - this simple mean that this is matter of trust or believe. Some may believe that there is no need to prove that edge holding quality is tested during Research and Development and more important as a Quality Assurance.

I am not too easy to believe - I have number of cases when expensive and highly rated knives or steels does not match expectations and even was below average level. Also I can not understand any reason for any producer to hide the fact that they do test their knives and as well how they do test. To me this is additional advertisement value for obvious reason.

However if there is not any testing - then this is what need not to be advertised...

So for me it is important to know for sure does company test what they do produce for what I am looking in knives or not. I will prefer producer which build it's production process - heat treatment in particular based on best edge retention results during R&D and I will profer producer which test edge retention quality during production to make sure everything is going as expected.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
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Fallkniven: http://www.fallkniven.com/test.htm

Flexural strength testing methodology developed in cooperation with the Division of Solid Mechanics at Lulea University of Technology, Sweden.

It's not CATRA, but very much in keeping with the intended usage of their knives.
From experience, I have found Fallkniven blades' construction and heat treatment to be quite well thought-out and very purpose-driven.
 
bought a japan super damascus bowie hunting knife about 6 months ago.[ginsu]had the catra test inbox but the code was meaningless to myself.what good was showing catra without explanation of codes? reminds me of situation mentioned in r. lee reloading book. he said that factory ammo if it was in acceptable accurenncy was loaded with most economical componets.although one powder might be more accurate but costs .35 cents more ,they would use less expensive powder because the cost factor when loading millions of rounds becomes important.conclusion to get the greatest accuracy & performance from your gun ;it was a necessity to h
andload.a few dollars more to the individual loading 1 or 200 rds. was not significant.
ginsu catra codes were icp & cer
 
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I think they say that Busse does magnafluxing and demoed edge retention at public events. Wayne Goddard and Phil Wilson have shared their edge retention testing on this forum. Ed Fowler has posted at length about his 52100 experimenting. Kevin Cashen is the resident heat treat guru (don't tell him I said that) Tim Zowada has 200x pics of edges on various finishers, Murray Carter tests for sharpness in his video by shaving his face.
 
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DennisStrickland said:
bought a japan super damascus bowie hunting knife about 6 months ago.[ginsu]had the catra test inbox but the code was meaningless to myself.what good was showing catra without explanation of codes? reminds me of situation mentioned in r. lee reloading book. he said that factory ammo if it was in acceptable accurenncy was loaded with most economical componets.although one powder might be more accurate but costs .35 cents more ,they would use less expensive powder because the cost factor when loading millions of rounds becomes important.conclusion to get the greatest accuracy & performance from your gun ;it was a necessity to handload.a few dollars more to the individual loading 1 or 200 rds. was not significant.
Click to expand...

Ate least they tested it for edge retention - the fact that they do test is already huge plus for me. As I sad without testing how can you assure quality both for new product during R&D and QA during production?

Having it tested may prevent well known failures...

Can you post this catra test results? We may try to figure out what it is about.

I wish to have it in every box with quality knife...

Thanks, Vassili.
 
spoonrobot said:
To be fair, we do have photographic evidence of some of Spyderco's testing. :p



Looks like a Terzoula in this machine from CATRA:
http://www.catra.org/pages/products/kniveslevel1/slt.htm

And from the same page:
The following are some of the companies/organisations have the CATRA cutting test machine within their facilities

USA
Dexter Russel, World Kitchen, Buck Knives, Spyderco, W R Case, Cutco/Alcas, Canada Cutlery, Leatherman, Bettcher and 2 in un- named plants

Italy
Fiskars Montana, Metallurgical materials laboratory in Maniago

Germany
FGW, J A Henckels

Spain
Madrid University, Arcos

Portugal
CATIM, ICEL

Switzerland
Victrinox/Wenger

UK
Amefa, Stanley Tools

Japan
Master Cutlery ( Global Knives)

France
Goutebarge
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Aside from selling machines, CATRA also has a testing service. They perform several types of testing as an independent testing service. They do not reveal their customers, nor the results of the tests. So a complete list of who does testing is not possible.
http://www.catra.org/pages/services/testprodeval.htm
 
BTW add A G Russel to the list.
He has a shop and runs tests on various elements of his designs.
 
I’m sure nozh’s list would be much shorter, accurate, and valuable if he listed the makers and companies that do NOT test their products. I’m guessing this thread isn’t really about who does or does not do testing though.
 
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