List of manufactrers - makers who test their knives.

[brownshoe]

Don't forget, just because someone owns a testing machine does not mean:

(1) they use it.

(2) use it fequently enough to be useful

(3) know how to use it properly

(4) keep it properly maintained and calibrated.

(5) have their operators properly trained.

You'd be suprised how often one of the above 4 conditions exist a manufacturing plant. That's why the MIL-Specs, ISO9001, etc. all came about. It's very difficult to prove a quality product without destroying it in testing, that's why you prove your process is good and repeatable.


Good companies consider their Quality Control and Assurance procedures to be confidential business information. They won't be providing too many details on this forum.

Of the companies listed above, one of the "major players" has indicated in forrums that they use steel manufactuerer's specification sheets to eliminate some tests. They depend upon their supplier to have gotten it right.

 

[nozh2002]

Don't forget, just because someone owns a testing machine does not mean:

(1) they use it.

(2) use it fequently enough to be useful

(3) know how to use it properly

(4) keep it properly maintained and calibrated.

(5) have their operators properly trained.

You'd be suprised how often one of the above 4 conditions exist a manufacturing plant. That's why the MIL-Specs, ISO9001, etc. all came about. It's very difficult to prove a quality product without destroying it in testing, that's why you prove your process is good and repeatable.


Good companies consider their Quality Control and Assurance procedures to be confidential business information. They won't be providing too many details on this forum.

Of the companies listed above, one of the "major players" has indicated in forrums that they use steel manufactuerer's specification sheets to eliminate some tests. They depend upon their supplier to have gotten it right.

Good company rather advertise their Quality Control and Assurance to assure consumer that quality is under control. They may hide certain blunders, but I do not care until it did not hit the market.

Of course we may imagine in theory that nobody really use CATRA for testing, but it is really hard to believe.

Idea that quality came by itself if you just follow sheet is just wrong. Everybody follow their sheet but it does not prevent from failure if something wrong went in the process and this is why Quality Control and Assurance are for.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Vassili,

I afraid that I must agree with Brownshoe

The information that you are trying to obtain and categorize would be very difficult for the reasons mentioned.

We find ourselves relying less and less on manufacturer's information and are doing more of our own investigation. Even steel manufactuers have their "secrets".

Also, lab tests have their limitations. Some of Ed Schempp geometries performed much better in "real world testing" than lab testing. An open mind (drafty brain?) is valuable.

sal

 

[Blop]

Benchmade does tests (remember the topic about their AUS 8a having HRC 59?), but wasn´t talking about until that topic and claims to test their knifes hard (military catalogue) without saying, what their knives have gone trough.

I am not sure, the question will lead to answers, we can learn something about.

Puma was advertised with testing every blade for hardness. Any blade under HRC 57 is sorted out. Ok, their actual catalog advertises a hardness range between HRC 57 to 60.

Any manufacturer does some tests. But that must not indicate better quality.

 

[darthsoaker]

Cold Steel. :thumbup:

 

[nozh2002]

Hi Vassili,

I afraid that I must agree with Brownshoe

The information that you are trying to obtain and categorize would be very difficult for the reasons mentioned.

We find ourselves relying less and less on manufacturer's information and are doing more of our own investigation. Even steel manufactuers have their "secrets".

Also, lab tests have their limitations. Some of Ed Schempp geometries performed much better in "real world testing" than lab testing. An open mind (drafty brain?) is valuable.

sal

Yes, even for R&D relaying on standard sheets is not really good idea, because metallurgists do steels mostly for different use (and may have secrets...). Nice to see that you do you own researches and so does Buck to my knowledge - Boss do his own research on HT and it looks different that what is in the sheet.

I agree that lab test has their limitation, but I can not find this as an excuse not to do any testing.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Fred Sanford]

Spyderco Military in a Folding Knife Endurance Tester here...

http://www.catra.org/pages/products/kniveslevel1/etr_000.htm

I would love to know if Spyderco's "lock breaker" is something mechanical or if they just put weights on a long bar or what. I don't expect this to be answered but it would be cool none the less.

 

[nozh2002]

Benchmade does tests (remember the topic about their AUS 8a having HRC 59?), but wasn´t talking about until that topic and claims to test their knifes hard (military catalogue) without saying, what their knives have gone trough.

I am not sure, the question will lead to answers, we can learn something about.

Puma was advertised with testing every blade for hardness. Any blade under HRC 57 is sorted out. Ok, their actual catalog advertises a hardness range between HRC 57 to 60.

Any manufacturer does some tests. But that must not indicate better quality.

Can you provide details?

Thanks, Vassili

 

[priority]

I am very happy with the few Spyderco's that I have,very reliable and they do the job.
I trust that adequate testing is carried out by the company without them revealing all the details on the procedure.
I like to use and enjoy my knives and life is to short to worry about a large company (that has a very good track record)disclosing there private manufacturing information.
If you use your knife and don't abuse it, you shouldn't have any problems.

 

[nozh2002]

I am very happy with the few Spyderco's that I have,very reliable and they do the job.
I trust that adequate testing is carried out by the company without them revealing all the details on the procedure.
I like to use and enjoy my knives and life is to short to worry about a large company (that has a very good track record)disclosing there private manufacturing information.
If you use your knife and don't abuse it, you shouldn't have any problems.

Well, this is what I was feeling also until I discovered pretty disappointed failure in quality in several expensive and highly advertised knives. Turns out that it is usual practice for many to relay on following some production process from steel manufacturers or little birds and do not test edge retention quality. Do not test edge retention quality of process established at first and do not test edge retention quality of produced blades.

To me this may explain that failures I saw.

Now I like to see not detail of testing as you sad, but at least the fact that it was ever tested. I can see this as a trade or commercial secret ony if no testing is done. I can not see how the fact that knifes are tested may be considered by company or maker as "private manufacturing information".

I see how some desperate tries to derail this simple matter and present it as unreasonable demands to provide private commertial information or something. Well, again thread subject is simple

"List of manufacturers - makers who test their knives."

And so far they are (in alphabetical order):

Buck - CATRA
Case - CATRA
Leatherman - CATRA
Spiyderco - CATRA
Victrinox/Wenger - CATRA

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[2brothers]

I see how some desperate tries to derail this simple matter and present it as unreasonable demands to provide private commertial information or something. Well, again thread subject is simple

Thanks, Vassili.

What part do you not understand? They do not WANT to tell you.
Who is being unreasonable Vassili?
Do you think they owe you this knowledge?


Commercial, the word is commercial.

 

[J_Curd]

I think I might be less intelligent after reading this thread. The jury is still out. I guess the obvious IS lost on some.

 

[db]

Well, this is what I was feeling also until I discovered pretty disappointed failure in quality in several expensive and highly advertised knives. Turns out that it is usual practice for many to relay on following some production process from steel manufacturers or little birds and do not test edge retention quality. Do not test edge retention quality of process established at first and do not test edge retention quality of produced blades.

To me this may explain that failures I saw.
Thanks, Vassili.

Alrighty then who are these many that don't do any testing? Feel free to list them in alphabetical order.

 

[nozh2002]

Alrighty then who are these many that don't do any testing? Feel free to list them in alphabetical order.

One more time - "List of manufacturers - makers who test their knives." (in alphabetical order):

Buck - CATRA
Case - CATRA
Leatherman - CATRA
Spiyderco - CATRA
Victrinox/Wenger - CATRA

You may start your own thered with you question - this one about manufacturers who does. Do you know any other then already listed?

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[nozh2002]

What part do you not understand? They do not WANT to tell you.
Who is being unreasonable Vassili?
Do you think they owe you this knowledge?


Commercial, the word is commercial.

What part you do not understand?

This is List of manufacturers who do tests.

Whom are that "they" are you talknig about?
From whom did I demand anything here? Can you quote me?

As I sad already I see some desperate attempt to present this thread as something it is not. Please, add to this list company that do testing - if you know any.

Regards, Vassili.

 

[Thomas W]

One more time - "List of manufacturers - makers who test their knives." (in alphabetical order):

Buck - CATRA
Case - CATRA
Leatherman - CATRA
Spiyderco - CATRA
Victrinox/Wenger - CATRA


Thanks, Vassili.

Hi Vassili
Interesting thread.

I believe what you really should be saying is that these listed manufacturers have invested in CATRA machines. As others have said, how would anyone know if they actually use them?

IMO conclusions as to whether they actually test would be inaccurate.

Not to be critical, but you seem to easily draw final analysis on subjects both here in this thread, and with your testing of single blades/steels, that to me, fall short of being anything but assumption, or nothing more than a performance test on a single sample of steel.

This is not to say the information and effort is not admirable and informative, it just can't be held as fact.

 

[db]

One more time - "List of manufacturers - makers who test their knives." (in alphabetical order):

Buck - CATRA
Case - CATRA
Leatherman - CATRA
Spiyderco - CATRA
Victrinox/Wenger - CATRA

You may start your own thered with you question - this one about manufacturers who does. Do you know any other then already listed?

Thanks, Vassili.

Yes, I think all companies that make knives either do testing of their products or have them tested to get the qualities they want. So go ahead and ad them all. Now you are the one who has said you discovered many who DO NOT test their knives. So who are they? Put up or shut up. Here is what you said just in case you have forgotten your claim you just posted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nozh2002
Well, this is what I was feeling also until I discovered pretty disappointed failure in quality in several expensive and highly advertised knives. Turns out that it is usual practice for many to relay on following some production process from steel manufacturers or little birds and do not test edge retention quality. Do not test edge retention quality of process established at first and do not test edge retention quality of produced blades.

To me this may explain that failures I saw.
Thanks, Vassili.

Alrighty then who are these many that don't do any testing? Feel free to list them in alphabetical order.

 

[Thomas W]

Yes, I think all companies that make knives either do testing of their products or have them tested to get the qualities they want.

Maybe all brand names do, maybe. Some may not care. Steel performance for manufacture's of certain lower price points or imports I don't personally feel care too much. If one doesn't pay attention to build quality, why then steel performance? This of course is just my opinion, and I have no knowledge to back them up. Just saying...

 

[nozh2002]

Hi Vassili
Interesting thread.

I believe what you really should be saying is that these listed manufacturers have invested in CATRA machines. As others have said, how would anyone know if they actually use them?

IMO conclusions as to whether they actually test would be inaccurate.

Not to be critical, but you seem to easily draw final analysis on subjects both here in this thread, and with your testing of single blades/steels, that to me, fall short of being anything but assumption, or nothing more than a performance test on a single sample of steel.

This is not to say the information and effort is not admirable and informative, it just can't be held as fact.

Well, it is about companies which test edge retention it does not really mater is it CATRA or not (and not ones who someone think they do but with certain data to back it up - like CATRA customer list).

Can you add any company to that list?

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[jawilder]

Yes, I think all companies that make knives either do testing of their products or have them tested to get the qualities they want. So go ahead and ad them all. Now you are the one who has said you discovered many who DO NOT test their knives. So who are they? Put up or shut up. Here is what you said just in case you have forgotten your claim you just posted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nozh2002
Well, this is what I was feeling also until I discovered pretty disappointed failure in quality in several expensive and highly advertised knives. Turns out that it is usual practice for many to relay on following some production process from steel manufacturers or little birds and do not test edge retention quality. Do not test edge retention quality of process established at first and do not test edge retention quality of produced blades.

To me this may explain that failures I saw.
Thanks, Vassili.

Alrighty then who are these many that don't do any testing? Feel free to list them in alphabetical order.

I have no dog in this fight but have found it interesting.

I generally appreciate the topics brought up here in bladeforums and the manner in which they are handled. The adults here are curteous and generous. But db, my friend, there is a fine line between criticism and rudeness and I'm pretty sure you have crossed it several times. If Nozh makes you so angry then simply don't read his post. That way the rest of us don't have to sift through your childish playground bickering.