Little knives rejoice!

Modoc ED said:
There is a MA state senator who was a LEO on 9/11 and he worked with the MA Legislature to pass that law. Later on he was elected to the MA Senate.
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Ed who are you referring to? I know U.S. Rep. Edward Markey is trying to overturn the TSA decision, but I have been in to pickup someone ( knife in pocket ) & flown in & out of Logan ( with knife in bag, then checked ) 1/2 dozen or more since 9/11 never been hassled, Boston city limits has restrictions on locking blades but its not enforced.
Senators during 9/11 Ted Kennedy, John Jerry, then Kirk replaced Ted, then Scott Brown , now it's Warren & Mo Cowan.
Pete

Matty read section 10 b , reference to Ma. Knife laws
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter269/Section10
 
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Looking at the MA web page of 'General Laws', it appears to be in Part IV, Title I, Chapter 269, Section 12F (if I deciphered correctly what the page appears to lay out for us; it's linked in the quote box below). Looks as if it applies to the airport's 'secure areas' only (I assume that means anything past the metal detectors and other passenger-screened areas), as well as the cabin of an airplane. Don't think there's any restriction for checked bags, though, assuming they're checked before the 'secure' screening:

( from site -->: http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter269/Section12F )

(...)

“Cutting device”, any knife, cutlery, straight razor, box cutter or other device containing a fixed, folding or retractable blade, which is not included in the list of weapons set forth in paragraph (b) of section 10.

“Secure area”, any area of an airport to which access is restricted through security measures by the airport authority or a public agency and the area beyond a passenger or property screening checkpoint at an airport.

“Airplane cabin”, any passenger or flight crew area within an airplane while the airplane is on the ground in the commonwealth or over the commonwealth.

(b) Whoever occupies, or attempts to enter or occupy, a secure area of an airport or the cabin of an airplane, knowingly having in his possession or in his control and knowingly concealing, a cutting device or a prohibited weapon, notwithstanding any license to possess such a weapon or device, shall be punished by imprisonment in the house of correction for not more than 21/2 years or by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(...)
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No apparent reference as to whom authored that section of the code, however, or even when it was enacted*. Another part of that section seems to allow exceptions for people working within 'secure areas' in the airport, if the knife is required in the course of their work. See the linked URL above for the full text of the section.

(Edit: * = Looks like the text in this section was part of "An Act Providing Protections Against Terrrorism", Chapter 313, enacted September 5, 2002:
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/SessionLaws/Acts/2002/Chapter313 )


David
 
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David as long as you don't try to get one past a secure area, you are fine walking in to pick someone up, as long as you aren't waving it around in the air acting like a idiot. Prior to 9/11 I use to carry on whatever knife I wanted, post 9/11 I would check a small nonessentials bag with my knife.

Pete
 
Stich2442 said:
David as long as you don't try to get one past a secure area, you are fine walking in to pick someone up, as long as you aren't waving it around in the air acting like a idiot. Prior to 9/11 I use to carry on whatever knife I wanted, prior I would check a small nonessentials bag with my knife.

Pete
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That's basically how I read it, too. Outside the 'secure areas' of the airport, I assume existing state/local knife laws apply, and I'm not seeing anything there that looks unusual. I have no connection to Massachusetts at all, but the earlier references to it's airport law had me curious about the wording of it. It does look like they hit you pretty hard if you do get caught inside the secure areas with a knife of any kind, though. That does seem to differ from other localities that may just confiscate a simple pocketknife and send you on your way, assuming the knife isn't otherwise illegal (like a switchblade, etc.).


David
 
David a lot comes down to the not so common, common sense, and how you are acting, I have worked on plenty of jobs in Boston, Brookline, etc. with my Opinel #9 and never had a officer tell me it is over the legal limit, if I was running down the street acting like a jerk I'm sure that would be a different story, and they would go out of their way to rack up the charges.

Pete
 
Stich2442 said:
David a lot comes down to the not so common, common sense, and how you are acting, I have worked on plenty of jobs in Boston, Brookline, etc. with my Opinel #9 and never had a officer tell me it is over the legal limit, if I was running down the street acting like a jerk I'm sure that would be a different story, and they would go out of their way to rack up the charges.

Pete
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This can't be over-stated. Fact is you can get away with carrying most any traditional-looking knife (I can't vouch for a serrated, black-bladed tanto Truck Stabber 3000) anywhere. A lot depends on how you carry not just the knife, but how you carry yourself. I have normal hair (what's left of it), and dress pretty conservatively. I carry knives to cut things when necessary, not to bolster my manliness or make a political statement. As such, I never think twice about carrying any knife I choose -- unless I'm going onto a plane.

-- Mark
 
TSA chief to defend knives-on-planes rule today at Congressional hearing
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/03/pistole_to_defend_knives-on-pl.html

Anecdotally, this came up at a family dinner this week. My sister in law went on a rant about why the need to allow deadly weapons on a plane. I pulled out my Leatherman Micra, opened the nearly microscopic pen blade and asked, "Do you consider this a deadly weapon?"

She recoiled and dramatically placed her hands over hear throat. "Oh that's awful. Somebody could stab you right in the throat with that!"

A brother in law laughed at her. "If I wanted to stab somebody in the neck, all I need is my Cross pen."

The conversation then took a turn towards recounting our favorite scenes from the Bourne movies, particularly the one where Jason sticks a Bic in the back of the hand of an assassin.

All this to say that I was reminded recently just how anti-weapon many people are, no matter how silly that seems to me.

I work in a security related field and we have a term for such things. We call it "security theater". Security theater is stuff that doesn't have a real effect but keeps the general public feeling like something is being done. I think the core of Pistole's argument is that we can't really afford the costs of doing security theater anymore. Better to focus TSA's energy on things that actually matter. Still, the backlash reminds me that we can't be stupid in using our knives. People just freak.

And yes, I did point out to my sister in law that her steak knife made me nervous...:eek:
 
Stich2442 said:
Ed who are you referring to? I know U.S. Rep. Edward Markey is trying to overturn the TSA decision, but I have been in to pickup someone ( knife in pocket ) & flown in & out of Logan ( with knife in bag, then checked ) 1/2 dozen or more since 9/11 never been hassled, Boston city limits has restrictions on locking blades but its not enforced.
Senators during 9/11 Ted Kennedy, John Jerry, then Kirk replaced Ted, then Scott Brown , now it's Warren & Mo Cowan.
Pete

Matty read section 10 b , reference to Ma. Knife laws
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter269/Section10
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It was a MA State Senator. I don't have his name.
 
I'm just curious Ed, because the statement you made in post #97 is not true as far as I know. I don't want to seem argumentative, if I'm coming off that way I apologize, just curious of where you heard or read it? I have lived in Ma. For 18 years and have never heard or seen any record of this, I can speak of my personal experience and have never had any kind of hassle at the airport as I stated in post #101, I know my boss/owner forgot he had a CRKT M16 tanto clipped in his pocket when heading out and went through security, they let him run it out to his truck technically that knife would be illegal within Boston city limits, and according to your earlier post would be "a felony punishable by up to 5-years in prison".
Perhaps whomever told you misinterpreted the law that David put up in post #102, living in Ma. Can be funny sometimes here they try to make most things illegal, except political corruption :-) we have some great blue laws also, they make for a comical read. Anyway Ed if you come across your source for the felony or the reference to the Ma. State Senator would you please send it along to me, I would like to read.

Thanks,
Pete
 
My source was a report on FOX News. They were debating whether knives should be allowed on airplanes at all. They had a MA State Senator who was a LEO on 9/11. While he was still a LEO he worked with various MA Legislators to pass a law making it illegal to posses a knife (folding, fixed, box cutter - any kind) in an airport in MA. The law passed. He has since left Law Enforcement, run for office, and is now a MA State Senator.

Maybe you could bring up FOX News on your computer and search for the story.

That's all I know. It might be a stand-alone law - not intermingled with the other knife laws of MA.
 
Just did a search it was Peter DiDomenic not a Senator, and the law applies if you try and take a knife past security, and on to a aircraft as stated by David in post # 102, so you can keep in your checked luggage, and on your person as long as you are not going through security, so it looks like you are not going to be able to carry on in Ma. It's still being debated.

http://wap.myfoxboston.com/w/main/story/86769179/

Pete
 
It's worth remembering that its illegal to drive above the speed limit.

Here's a link to a fox news story on the Mass law.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/21...ket-knives-on-planes-but-its-a-felony-in-mass

I find the last line to be particularly interesting:
"With that being said, a spokesperson for the Massachusetts State Police said troopers will be urged to utilize discretion when it comes to seeking charges in the wake of the discovery of a pocket knife."

I think we see this all the time. Law says one thing. LEOs have guidelines on enforcement.

As a person who flies out of Logan with some regularity, I'll still carry my de-bladed Leatherman Micra for a while to see how things go. Regardless of the law on the books, I really can't see the Mass State Police setting up a separate screening activity along side of or in front of the TSA security check points.

Provided the TSA rules stick, I would have to thing (hope) that state laws will eventually be aligned with the federal regs (or simply be ignored).

FWIW, Boston has a city ordinance banning blades longer than 3" I believe. I don't measure my blades precisely but I've never, ever, ever had reason to talk with any cop about the contents of my pockets, much less the length of my blade. I think Pete nailed it. Don't be a goober and you're good to go.
 
The TSA is getting more and more heat for this decision. Ultimately I cant see it sticking.
 
Guess my new Spideco Afr PE does not make the cut because the blade is 2 5/8.
 
akadave2 said:
The TSA is getting more and more heat for this decision. Ultimately I cant see it sticking.
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They are not backing down yet..... you read more from the link.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/14/john-pistole-tsa-knives-policy_n_2874720.html

UPDATE, 5:19pm: John Pistole confirmed to the House Homeland Security Committee on Thursday that he doesn't believe small folding knives would enable a terrorist on an airplane, the Associated Press reports. Pistole reportedly called the two to three minute practice of finding the roughly 2,000 small knives the TSA finds daily "time consuming".

"I think the decision is solid and it stands and we plan to move forward," Pistole said, according to the AP.

PREVIOUSLY: TSA chief John Pistole isn't backing down. He told ABC News Wednesday that despite increasing uproar over the TSA's plans to allow certain knives and sporting equipment in carry-on bags, the agency has no plans to change the policy, which goes into effect April 25.
 
Hallelujah!

We'll just have to make sure that all flights are sufficiently populated by knife addicts, so that when some terrorist pulls out his Peanut to hijack the plane, we will be prepared to take him down.
 
In Ma. Martha Coakley & Edward Markey are pushing back pretty hard, I know if I have to fly I am going to do what I have been doing, and just pack my knife in a bag of nonessentials and check it in.
If you are flying in to Ma. you wouldn't have a problem exiting the airport, but on your return flight you would have to check knife in bag to be on the safe side , for now, or pack a padded self addressed envelope and drop it in the mail before you depart.

Pete
 
It does look like Pistole is standing firm, and that's encouraging. BUT, as with all things political, I'm curious to see if one of the higher-ups above him end up caving in to public pressure and 'changing his mind' for him. Everything could turn on a dime, if so. I get the sense that part of his confidence may come from feeling like his superiors have his back, and will support his decision. TSA answers to DHS, which answers to the President. So long as they don't cave to public opinion, he'll probably be OK. But, who knows...

And all that doesn't yet account for what might still happen in Congress, if legislation is enacted to override TSA's decision. Beyond all that, even one high-profile 'incident' on an airplane, by some knucklehead with a 'small' knife (legal or not), might change perceptions even further. Maybe it won't happen, and the new rules will stick. But I'll still keep my fingers crossed for a while, even after the new rules take effect on 4/25. ;)


David
 
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